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Topic: Ελλάς (Greece) - page 15. (Read 38051 times)

hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
September 27, 2012, 04:42:59 PM
#47
...
BTW Liberalism is almost unheard of in Greece. There are practically zero anarcho-capitalists for example while we've got a huge share of anarchists. So most positive opinions about Bitcoin here are based on the ability to escape austerity measures and live outside the current corrupt state.

Also during the last elections voters were turned from the two "center" parties to the "left" and to the "right". But while "left" includes socialist parties, the right includes fascists and no libertarians at all. In the political compass (www.politicalcompass.org), Greece moved like this:

From here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-5&soc=0

To BOTH here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7&soc=6
and here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=0&soc=9 (although those were much fewer thankfully)

(those are personal estimates of course)
It seems that those are not anarchist positions; they seem socialist or fascist. I expected that anarchists would be more accepting of Bitcoin, the way the Pirates are.

Considering that corruption is almost impossible to separate from the state, because it has cultural ties and roots in any society, looks like very difficult times are ahead for all but the fascists in Greece. It will be sad and fascinating to watch develop.

As in Spain, barter systems like TEM, appear to be acceptable to the mainstream of Greece, yes?
So, i guess then that the acceptance of Bitcoin is just a matter of time, generational change, and the average comfort with complicated technology.

If Greece leaves Euro, it will be an interesting test of many hypotheses...
hero member
Activity: 640
Merit: 500
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity...
September 27, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
#46
Quite a negative article I'd say. If you account his replies too, I don't think he even likes an idea of an open system, not based on well established ideas and/or government :-(
This one definitely sounds more negative to me, at least from the translation.

What a terrible article.

The last one though wasn't that negative Serenata. I'd call it neutral perhaps. He doesn't state a negative opinion. He more like states his worries and that time will show if it's worth it or not. And compared to the average Greek reaction on the net I'd say it's quite positive.

BTW Liberalism is almost unheard of in Greece. There are practically zero anarcho-capitalists for example while we've got a huge share of anarchists. So most positive opinions about Bitcoin here are based on the ability to escape austerity measures and live outside the current corrupt state.

Also during the last elections voters were turned from the two "center" parties to the "left" and to the "right". But while "left" includes socialist parties, the right includes fascists and no libertarians at all. In the political compass (www.politicalcompass.org), Greece moved like this:

From here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-5&soc=0

To BOTH here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7&soc=6
and here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=0&soc=9 (although those were much fewer thankfully)

(those are personal estimates of course)
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
September 26, 2012, 05:46:05 PM
#45
Quite a negative article I'd say. If you account his replies too, I don't think he even likes an idea of an open system, not based on well established ideas and/or government :-(
This one definitely sounds more negative to me, at least from the translation.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
September 26, 2012, 05:37:51 PM
#44
Have you tried other terms? Try "sex" or "porn" and see how it goes. ;-)
Yes, that's a good idea; if i put Athens or feta or euro or Volos (TEM), Greece starts to appear on Google Trends. However, if i put money or Drachma or barter or their greek equivalents, Greece disappears again.  Huh
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
September 26, 2012, 02:39:43 PM
#43

Would any of the natives please gives us their thoughts on this article:
Bitcoin:monetary revolution of the digital generation
It's a quite good presentation of Bitcoin for the layman. It has some mistakes and misses a few aspects (it would be way more interesting if it presented Bitcoin along with some libertarian principles instead of just mentioning how today's governments are corrupt) but overall it's nice.

Quite a negative article I'd say. If you account his replies too, I don't think he even likes an idea of an open system, not based on well established ideas and/or government :-(
hero member
Activity: 640
Merit: 500
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity...
September 26, 2012, 02:08:16 PM
#42
Spain also doesn't show on that radar. I am starting to think there is some malfunction in the Google Trends engine; the entire population of Finland is about 5 million. Yet, they are constantly in the top 5 of Google Trends for Bitcoin...  Huh

Have you tried other terms? Try "sex" or "porn" and see how it goes. ;-)
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
September 26, 2012, 01:26:58 PM
#41
Quote
I see a few more in the *.gr realm lately, but still doesn't even show up in Google Trends data for Greece. Perhaps, Greeks mostly use some other search engine?
Nope. We use almost exclusively Google like the rest of the world but there are fewer than 5mil internet users from Greece AFAIK so Google trends usually ain't that clear for us.
Thanks for checking that out!

Spain also doesn't show on that radar. I am starting to think there is some malfunction in the Google Trends engine; the entire population of Finland is about 5 million. Yet, they are constantly in the top 5 of Google Trends for Bitcoin...  Huh
hero member
Activity: 640
Merit: 500
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity...
September 26, 2012, 01:04:12 PM
#40

Would any of the natives please gives us their thoughts on this article:
Bitcoin:monetary revolution of the digital generation
It's a quite good presentation of Bitcoin for the layman. It has some mistakes and misses a few aspects (it would be way more interesting if it presented Bitcoin along with some libertarian principles instead of just mentioning how today's governments are corrupt) but overall it's nice.
Quote
I see a few more in the *.gr realm lately, but still doesn't even show up in Google Trends data for Greece. Perhaps, Greeks mostly use some other search engine?
Nope. We use almost exclusively Google like the rest of the world but there are fewer than 5mil internet users from Greece AFAIK so Google trends usually ain't that clear for us.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
September 26, 2012, 12:18:24 PM
#39

Would any of the natives please gives us their thoughts on this article:
Bitcoin:monetary revolution of the digital generation

I see a few more in the *.gr realm lately, but still doesn't even show up in Google Trends data for Greece. Perhaps, Greeks mostly use some other search engine?
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
August 22, 2012, 07:09:18 PM
#38
subscribed
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
July 16, 2012, 09:03:32 PM
#37
Just did another search of pages in Greek. Still outside bitcoinx.gr and some blurbs on deltahacker.gr, i can't find much about B in Greek space.

I thought by now, it would at least be maligned as a scam somewhere in the Greek media...

So perplexing...  Huh
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
July 15, 2012, 12:48:53 PM
#36
...just so we have as much Greece<>Bitcoin related info here as possible:

Reason.com article

No word from tem-magnisia group yet. Does anyone have connections to the TEM founder, Yiannis Grigoriou, through some kind of social networking?
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
July 13, 2012, 09:36:27 AM
#35
I read about how TEM works and I'll try to explain it here for the ones interested.
---
Their web site is at: http://www.tem-magnisia.gr/

Backing TEM with Bitcoin might prove to be too difficult, because Bitcoin has features like coins supply, interest rates etc and TEM does not. Fundamental design differences.
Thank you for clarifying that!

So, it's not really a currency as the video presented, but a local barter network.
It sounds like offline Ripple Pay on paper, with an offline database.

Seems well-suited for the average merchant/consumer, because they are used to paper, there is nothing to steal or hack, and the chief of it all can be found locally.
Bitcoin is difficult to comprehend and trust in comparison, if one is not swift with computers...

As long as they don't wish to trade outside their local economy, TEM seems great fit for them.

When they wish to trade outside, they could start using Ripple, and have the same TEM-type system online...

Would be interesting to hear from the TEM boss regarding Ripple, and his future plans for TEM in general. I will try to contact him when i get a round tuit...

sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
July 13, 2012, 05:38:53 AM
#34
I read about how TEM works and I'll try to explain it here for the ones interested.

  • There is no supply/production of TEM units. The total number of TEM units is always zero.
  • If Alice wants to buy something from Bob and they agree on 10TEM units, Alice's account goes to -10TEM and Bob's account goes to 10TEM. A healthy account should fluctuate from negative to positive and vice versa. You can not go too far into negative, there is a limit.
  • To sign up, you need to provide ID and signature.
  • When you sign up you can see all ads about goods and services and you can place your own ad.
  • You can comment on your transactions and you can see other people's accounts and comments
  • It's not mentioned though, how goods and services are valued and how local trades are being made.

Their web site is at: http://www.tem-magnisia.gr/

Backing TEM with Bitcoin might prove to be too difficult, because Bitcoin has features like coins supply, interest rates etc and TEM does not. Fundamental design differences.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
July 09, 2012, 11:47:49 AM
#33
I wonder whether it would be possible or useful for the TEM people to back it with Bitcoin...  Huh
Who is going to pay for every new person that goes into the TEM system? Every newcomer gets a fixed number of TEMs for free. If they are backed by bitcoins somebody should buy those bitcoins in the first place.
Yes, i guess, the organizer of TEM and those guys he has behind the computers would have to buy the backing, which doesn't seem likely, or may even be pointless...

I don't exactly understand how the valuation works in TEM - how they determine how many TEM anything is.

Perhaps, TEM is not really currency, but just another barter ledger system that is presented as a local  currency in this video.

Maybe the reason the average Greeks are not interested in Bitcoin is simply because they are so tired of all the currency-related shenanigans that they would rather just go to the modern versions of prehistoric barter than some nebulous, uncertain geek experiment of Bitcoin...  Huh

Would one of our Greek members be willing to contact the TEM organizer, and inquire why he would not want to use Bitcoin instead of TEM?
hero member
Activity: 640
Merit: 500
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity...
July 04, 2012, 02:11:47 PM
#32
I wonder whether it would be possible or useful for the TEM people to back it with Bitcoin...  Huh

Who is going to pay for every new person that goes into the TEM system? Every newcomer gets a fixed number of TEMs for free. If they are backed by bitcoins somebody should buy those bitcoins in the first place.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
July 04, 2012, 10:51:48 AM
#31
Hundreds of people using this TEM thing in Greece, yet we only got a handful of Greeks to respond here in the poll, and Bitcoin still doesn't seem to be anywhere on the Greek map.

It's funny and sad at the same time... Cheesy

Feels like all that says something enormous and multifaceted about Bitcoin, Greece, human nature, etcetera that is difficult to process and explain...

I wonder whether it would be possible or useful for the TEM people to back it with Bitcoin...  Huh

hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
June 26, 2012, 07:26:34 PM
#30

Ah yes, here is something about B at Insomnia
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 503
June 26, 2012, 07:06:03 PM
#29
http://www.pirateparty.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=237&hilit=bitcoin
Bitcoin discussion in Greek Pirate Party's forum. It's a bit old though.
Cool! Thank you very much!

Do most advanced Greek computer users and hackers visit Insomnia?

In which forum do the Greek investors and penny-pinchers talk about financial stuff?

It would be interesting to hear from them here! ...even in Greek! Smiley
hero member
Activity: 640
Merit: 500
Vanity of vanities; all is vanity...
June 26, 2012, 10:28:35 AM
#28
http://www.pirateparty.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=237&hilit=bitcoin
Bitcoin discussion in Greek Pirate Party's forum. It's a bit old though.
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