[HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund - page 19.

crumbs

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Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:14:19 PM

...
You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

You're pitiably naive if you think that it's reasonable to give your money to strangers unless i prove, to your satisfaction, that they are scammers. Most adults play thing differently -- they don't hand over their money *until the company proves its legitimacy*.
But hey -- buy buy buy

jimmothy

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Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 10:14:31 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 10:12:24 PM

Let me remind you that this is not AM. Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.

This has to be taken into consideration. For every ASICMINER there have been, what, 10, 20 other securities that have failed, all of which were anonymous and had no reparations.

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:14:19 PM

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

Correct, but the burden of proof is up to the company looking for investor's money.

If you want more proof a good place to start would be havelock account: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/havelock-64492

You will notice how many conspiracy theories from crumbs that havelock has had to put to rest. It is no surprise that people like friedcat don't waste all their time answering endless amount of already answered questions.

Also if you want you can even call them at Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

Or you could even visit their offices if you happen to be in panama. Crumbs should go fly down there and put the FUD to rest.

Quote

The Panama Fund, SA has been registered and licensed since 2008 with Superintendencia del Mercado de Valores (English: Superintendency of Securities Market) as a Sociedades de Inversión Privadas (English: Private Investment Company).
http://www.supervalores.gob.pa/files/Sociedades/Sociedades_Inversion_Privada_DRA.pdf

crumbs

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Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:08:42 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 10:04:29 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner. The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here. So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense. And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

You don't understand what "sold" means, do you? When you sell something, you no longer own it. The new owner may keep you on as hired help, but he sure isn't going to consult your ethics. I'm afraid the track record's gone. Under new management.

I'm far from alone in calling this a scam -- Deprived voiced a similar sentiment, offhand

Consider reading more than just the last post before typing.

lewicki

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Merit: 250

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 10:12:24 PM

Let me remind you that this is not AM. Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.

This has to be taken into consideration. For every ASICMINER there have been, what, 10, 20 other securities that have failed, all of which were anonymous and had no reparations.

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:14:19 PM

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

Correct, but the burden of proof is up to the company looking for investor's money.

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 10:12:24 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:00:01 PM

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

Utter nonsense. Either you're sincerely clueless, or you're one of the hapless goofs who bought this fail hoping to flip.
Let me remind you that this is not AM. Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.
This particular lotto ticket barely pays over face value when it wins, which is never.

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

crumbs

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Activity: 210

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Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:00:01 PM

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

Utter nonsense. Either you're sincerely clueless, or you're one of the hapless goofs who bought this fail hoping to flip.
Let me remind you that this is not AM. Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.
This particular lotto ticket barely pays over face value when it wins, which is never.

lewicki

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:00:01 PM

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

I understand your point. I'd just be much more at ease if the legal basis for operating was divulged. You don't need one to run a mining shop.

Understand that I can't just take anyone's word for it - "Yes we are legal". Well, how?

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

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Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 10:06:33 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:00:01 PM

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

But they say that they are legal.

Quote

The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

What is the entirety of the legal basis for running this?

I don't know but asking a bunch of armchair "investors" is not going to give you the right answer.

But nobody has yet to point out any evidence that they are doing anything illegal/shady. Well besides crumbs.

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 10:04:29 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner. The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here. So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense. And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

lewicki

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 10:00:01 PM

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

But they say that they are legal.

Quote

The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

What is the entirety of the legal basis for running this?

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner. The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here. So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense. And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:51:43 PM

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

lewicki

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: jimmothy on November 21, 2013, 09:48:59 PM

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website. If you are in China, you might have to be anonymous or you might get canned like coingarden. Is this true in Panama?

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 06:07:01 PM

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

I've read this too. However I'd still feel comfortable if they disclosed who they are.

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?
Does Havelock have a business address/registration #?

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: lewicki on November 21, 2013, 09:47:21 PM

Name one legit, profitable, legal company that has been around for more than a year that runs anonymously.

If this was a legal shop, there would be an "about us" page with photos of the people who should be proud to running a legal bitcoin securities exchange.

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

lewicki

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Name one legit, profitable, legal company that has been around for more than a year that runs anonymously.
Name one legal financial company that remains open for more than a year and runs anonymously.

If this was a legal business, there would be an "about us" page with photos of the people who should be proud to running a legal bitcoin securities exchange.

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 09:20:31 PM

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 08:05:07 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 06:58:02 PM

You're confused.
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you... I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case.

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong Cheesy

As far as who's friedcat: He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked Sad

Do you do anything besides create FUD?

crumbs

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 08:05:07 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 06:58:02 PM

You're confused.
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you... I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case.

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong Cheesy

As far as who's friedcat: He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked Sad

Herp

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 06:58:02 PM

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 06:07:01 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 05:48:18 PM

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 05:22:33 PM

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting. It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you... I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case.

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 06:07:01 PM

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 05:48:18 PM

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 05:22:33 PM

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting. It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you... I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Herp

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: crumbs on November 21, 2013, 05:48:18 PM

Quote from: Herp on November 21, 2013, 05:22:33 PM

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting. It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

Topic: [HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund - page 19. (Read 70071 times)