Topic: H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - page 37. (Read 113299 times)

Sure you can buy more efficient hardware like SP31 or S3+ but none are shipping now.


The important units are $/GH(capex), W/GH(efficiency), and $/kwh(opex).


I stopped mining and sold my hardware because I pay ~$0.15/kwh which is not viable in the long run.

Giant scale mining operations are already beginning to take advantage of <$0.05/kwh locations.


A good deal would be less than $0.1/kwh without a ridiculously long term contract. (less than 3 months would be ideal.)

Nobody wants to pay for 12 months of hosting when you stop earning a profit after 4-5.

Jimmothy, thanks for the guidance. I know the coin foundry guys and I know data centers. I clearly don't know as much about mining as most of the folks on here, I haven't had the time in Bitcoin that I have had in data centers.

If it's a totally shitty deal, what's a good deal? What makes it a good deal?
I have to assume that not everyone owns the fastest rigs. What if they did? What if they owned more efficient rigs? Why doesn't everyone just run those?  Why aren't those the standard? What do you use?
Is the only unit of measurement the Kw or Kwh?
What does an efficient design of a rig or a facility do to the profitability?

I appreciate the link to the mining calc. Where do you mine? At what scale? How do you get a good deal?

What I don't see calculations for in that calculator are CapEx allowances, rent, taxes (ad velorum, sales, utility), debt service, insurance, infrastructure/tenant improvements, wiring, ducting, cabinets, labor, permits, security (physical & logical), and legal.  Telecom services, shipping, travel, and all of the other things that are material costs of a business.

So what makes a great deal and why? I know you don't speak for the global community, I am curious...

I'm sorry but you sound like a used car salesman. Are you the same person who designed the website? (who clearly has no clue how bitcoin mining works)

Your company is offering a horrible deal, no question about it.

A 12 month contract locked in with such shitty rates would mean a guaranteed loss of ~$0.5m assuming you have free hardware and it starts mining today.

Nobody gets free hardware so a more reasonable estimation would be a loss of ~$1.3m.

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=27428630902&dcosts=0&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=1000000000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=487.49&dpowcon=1000000&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.175&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

You can mine profitably so long as you build a business model that insures it. Thinking you can buy a couple of rigs and put them in your garage in scottsdale AZ from June-September and profitably mine is not going to work. Mining at scale and placing bigger bets to buy in is what is required. Fewer and fewer people will have the balls resources or desire to go bigger and bigger to get a seat at the table.

The coin foundry value prop as I understand it is:

The sites are there ready to go in a real building.

You overnight rigs today, you are mining in 24-36 hours with whatever rigs you can mount and turn on
How many BTC can you mine with 1 MW in 24 hours? (I don't know)
Is it enough to cover the cost for that day and the weeks required to squeeze 58% premium over mining 1MW of BTC?
Those are the business questions that need answering.

Someone who wants to put 500 rigs in the site over the next 8 weeks seems to think it's a screaming deal. Dallas will be gone by 9/30 or sooner. New rigs are shipping and they want the jump on the hash rate to get going now vs, trekking around eastern Washington for 2 weeks to find a building. Then another 4 weeks to have a utility design a distribution system for them and drop in gear to step down the voltage, and then coordinate rack implementations, cable runs, and wiring installs (2 weeks) before the rigs get there and then have the people, process, and space to unpack rigs and get em racked.

It's all super easy until you start...

OK got it.  That's why we went to Sweden.  

Our all inclusive price for 1MW is $79,000.   I assume the reason why thecoinfoundry is 58% more is that you are having to run conventional aircon in traditional DC space.


As difficulty ramps it will become less and less possible to mine profitably anywhere that PUEs are not very close to 1.

Want to give kudos to sidehack at Gekkoscience hosting.
FEDEX did not deliver to correct address, so he drove to depot to pick up my SP-30.
Everything was set up fast and is chugging along great so far (at ~4.5Th).
Thanks

It's $125,000 per month per megawatt all inclusive of power, cooling, rent. The whole building is $250,000 per month all inclusive.

There are no tenants in the building so there is no need to chop up power/rent, etc. as I did before. Because there are no other leases to provision resources for now, it is simpler to build out revenue and cost models. I wanted to figure out the all in number for the building, and so that is what I did.

Hi Mark,

Your earlier post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-coin-foundry-raising-10m-in-convertible-notes-for-mining-facility-717049 suggests it's 5c + rent of $50-$100kW.

 is that 5c per kW/h plus $50-$100 per kW per month?

I am cross posting this in the right place on purpose

Wanted to let the community know that there is available MEGAWATT SCALE capacity out there ready to go, inexpensive (by data center standards), and finished space (you can move in this weekend).

The Coin Foundry has 3.6MW of available capacity right now in Texas at 5 cents (may be gone by 9/8/2014)

The Coin Foundry has 8MW in Washington at 5 cents

The Coin Foundry has 2 MW in Virginia at 7 cents.

The facilities are prepped and you can move into the Texas and Virginia ones this weekend.

The Coin Foundry has 6 other buildings at 20+ MW each around the US at 5-7 cents power they are performing due diligence on.

Stop the hair splitting over 1-2 cents for the guys at megawatt scale.

You know what kills profitability fastest?

NOT STARTING TO MINE TODAY.

http://www.thecoinfoundry.com - only Dallas is up on the site, they just got control of Virginia and Washington Friday. Dallas may be gone by next week with a miner shipping 100 rigs this month and 300 next month, just FYI.

I am a data center guy, and I tell everyone that there is limited product available (Tier I ) that is cost effective for miners. It's not the power but the cooling overhead that adds $$$ to the equation. The big data center players all overbuilt for mining operations (redundant electrical & mechanical systems that aren't needed for mining (no one dies if a facility loses power for a few hours). So they lose money to attract the miners and can't sustain keeping the miners as customers because you can lose money at scale too.

happy to answer questions - mark at blunthammer.com

Hey, we've got a p2pool node up for testing. Anyone want to try it out?

74.82.237.66:9332

0% fees, 0% author contribution, hosted in central WA on one of our 100 Mbps symmetrical fiber links. IP address will change eventually, and we might be rebooting it, so don't expect it to be reliable just yet.

Imagine what you could achieve if you actually opened the Spondoolies' cases and blew the air over their radiators using large centrifugal fans. Obviously, don't do that with customer's equipment, experiment with your own. I understand that as a prepaid hoster, you care very little MTTR/MCTR, downtime isn't hitting your pocket. Also, the expected useful lifetime of Bitcoin miner is much shorter than a general purpose server, so you may in fact see very little failures before your customers liquidate their equipment.

I've posted couple of months ago on the Spondoolies' thread regarding just that:

The physics of it is really simple: it doesn't make sense to first concentrate the heat only to dissipate it right afterwards. But my point of view is different than yours, you are just providing the hosting service, whereas I talk like end-user minimizing the overall costs. Your customers obviously do care about the appearances, whereas I cared much more about things like avoiding downtime, minimizing staff workload, maximizing their morale and nearly zero about how it looked.

I just went and measured. In the wake of the mess of power cables, airflow is around 2.3 m/s. In a similar position above, not in cable wake, airflow is about 3.8 m/s. If you feel around with your hand, the effect is quite distinct. There is no noticeable effect from ethernet cables, though.

The performance and reliability of most servers is not significantly affected by airflow resistance. If a server gets a little bit too hot, it increases the fan speed. With SP30s, the fans are running full blast anyway, and the performance is affected by internal temperature. I would think that this would be a bit more sensitive than MTTR/MCTR for some 10 kW racks.

Anyone from here or from the forum that has hosted with hydro66 to leave a small review?


Since I am one of the owned of Spondoolies hardware that will host there I can say that I took the decision before seeing any picture of the DC so I am not in that crowd when it comes to picking the hosting provider. But I must admit that I like pretty OCD cables 

Essentially there's nothing wrong with what you wrote above, except that it shows that you don't understand the needs of a premium property landlord. "Keeping the lights on" takes much more than simply keeping the light on: the property needs to be attractive, safe, desirable, etc. To be honest I don't completely understand the large landlords either, but at least I spoke (not negotiated) with them on several occasions and have some understanding. Neither did I work for Victoria's Secret, but again spoke with friends who did. What I could say:

If somebody comes with an idea how to turn hot aisles in their Bitcoin mine towards the windows and combine it with bikini fashion show in those hot aisles, then landlords like CBRE will offer you really competitive electricity prices with their leases. The only downside will be that you'll have to travel worldwide, but again CBRE will cover the costs.

I get a tingle that you are getting closer to understanding dealing with large landlords.

Ha ha, impeded airflow! One of my coworkers had actual numbers for MTTR (Mean Time To Repair/Reconfigure/Replace) and MCTR ('Cost' instead of 'Time') for tight racks vs. slack racks (after a merger of two companies with vastly different cultures) and the numbers aren't supporting the claims of the OCD crowd.

I however understand your position when marketing yourself to the owners of Spondoolies' hardware which is in large part "status symbol" crowd.

Just leaving a quick review.  My miners were received at Centerus over the weekend and so far everything is running smoothly.  The only issue I have is that they should be more responsive in communication.  I had sent out 2 emails which I did not receive a reply to (the question I posed is now moot).  Would have been nice to get at least some response back (despite being Labor weekend and all).

Hi RoadStress,   

No - happy to say we've reduced the minimum right down to 10kW. 

A

Do you still have a 50kW minimum limit?

an update on Hydro66 - we've reduced our pricing and have several hundred kW available for immediate use.

Our new headline rate is $79-$99 per kW per month, 100% hydro, free air cooled.

I've added an announcement/discussion thread specifically for Hydro66 at
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-hydro66-all-inclusive-miner-hosting-in-sweden-from-60kwm-update-765407


A

You only pay for the power you use. If you have a 1 MW transformer connected and energized, it only uses about 10-15 kW of power (the so-called no-load losses due to imperfect magnetic properties of the iron in the transformer). At $0.10/kWh, that might cost you $1000 a month. If you connect 200 kW of bitcoin miners, it then costs you about $15,800 per month. Add in the air conditioning costs for those miners, and you're looking at something in excess of $20,000 per month.

The amount of power used by an air conditioner is related to the load. Many people calculate A/C load in terms of square footage, but that is only accurate when the load is mostly conductive losses through walls and ceilings plus typical office-type equipment. Once you start adding loads like Bitcoin miners, the amount of time your A/C unit has to be on goes way up.

"Keeping the lights on" uses a very small amount of power. Typical lighting loads might be 1.5 W per square foot. Our server racks, once full, will use about 500 W per square foot. One server rack full of SP30s uses several times as much power as all the lights in our building.

If a real estate agency is paying for this while a building is between tenants or up for remodeling, they are either going to be pissed off or they are not paying attention. My guess is the latter.

I have seen some rate schedules for power usage that are use-it-or-lose-it, or where you get a sudden decrease in price if you use a little more power. In a case like that, I can see how it might make sense to consume more. For the real estate case, though, I'm either not following your argument or not agreeing with it.

Nope, but poorly arranged cables impede airflow. The power cables (not pictured) are a more significant contributor to airflow resistance. Also, haphazardly wired network cables result in mistakes during maintenance.

All of our PDUs are UL Listed. Our cooling system is also NRTL tested and approved. If it weren't, we wouldn't pass inspections.

Our cooling system is nowhere near questionable -- if you watch our cooling video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rQ-YIDmsBc), you'll get an idea for the enormous amount of airflow we have. I don't want to give out part numbers for the components we're using because that would be handing our competitors way too much information. As measured by anemometer, airflow in our system varies between 3.6 m/s (9 mph) and 8.8 m/s (20 mph). Intake temperatures for miners during the summer are typically around 18°C to 25°C. At this moment, intake temps are around 19°C-21°C.

We currently only accept rackmountable units, and may soon restrict that to high-density rackmountable units. If you wish to host less than 5 kW or more than 1000 MW of low-density equipment, we might be able to accommodate you, and we might not. Tell us what you want at [email protected].

Our rates are the same for all order sizes. This is a policy decision intended to help keep Bitcoin mining decentralized. We want to keep small miners in the game and competing on footing that's as even as possible with the big players. I hope you understand.