Topic: I visited BFL, any questions ? - page 4. (Read 14888 times)

Ok so you have back stepping from an absolute to almost.
The more devices out in the wild at different locations the less likely it is to be a long con.

Its a shame I had to wade through so many of your tantrums to get to something resembling a discussion.


Opps back to being a child again, this is disappointing.
Let me reiterate that point - your claims mean nothing without proof and as you cannot prove them to me or the people requesting it you should stop putting them forward. Maybe you are just to stupid and or arrogant to have structured conversation and or debate.

You do not, you have deluded yourself into thinking you do.
Anyway Its not my place to argue with your ego, but consider this.

You get respect - you dont run around like a child demanding it and telling people you have it.
"if" you had any, it would be obvious but carry on, this is extremely entertaining if nothing else.

They are called citations, extensively used in all fields to verify authority on the subject matter - wikipedia would be the best example if you need some study matter.


Yes they lied and are continuing to lie to clients. I and all adults in the business world have a problem with a company that does this.




My argument and stance  that they lie to clients is as rock solid as ever - you even agreed with it.
My argument has substance and is easy to verify by checking their website.

Poor attempt to side step the core point, but this is what id expect from you now.


Pathetic, seriously grow up. I wont debate definitions with a child that insists on re-interpreting every argument presented so they can ignore  the core (and very obvious issue). The dictionary agrees with me and an egotistical swearing tantrum throwing forum member disagrees - I wont lose any sleep.

Must of missed that 1 fact inside your wall of crys.

Again we disagree on definitions. If you are an adult you should be embarassed by the lack of self control, composure and maturity you demonstrate.

I am a Senior Unix Systems Administrator for ~14 years now. I can verify this with anyone that requires my services.
Again, more substance less tantrums please.

Truly childish - substance or stfu please.

Dude, really ? you are going to stoop the the level of "No you shut up" when asked to be civil.
You dont see me swearing, ranting, calling bullshit, insulting etc - All I have done is disagree.

Ahh more insults, its a good last resort when you are stuck arguing your beliefs vs critical thinking.

Unlike BFL I have not lied in this entire discussion.
You have constantly lied, purposefully misinterpreted and side stepped. You are either an idiot or are involved in a long con.

I thought you had calmed down but it seems you are mentally incapable of being challenged and handling it in a civil and mature fashion. Id suggest seeking help on that as it will severely impact any future you may have as a business owner.

I was hoping you may have finally put out something more substantial but alas - just a wall of crys.

I shall continue waiting to see if more people receive and confirm them as working as said, the more out in the wild being demonstrated the more unlikely it is to be a con.

I dont want to argue back and forth unless we are making progress but we are not.

I can tell you will scream and screech down anyone that dares question the almighty BFL - So there is no point, it would be like arguing the existence of God with a fanatic.

You seem to think its perfectly fine for a company to lie to clients repeatedly and consistently - I and many many others do not.

You think you are a big deal on teh scene, that you have credibility and deserve and have respect ..... LOL   (not for the entire scene my deluded idiot, but quite possibly for the section you service).

I want BFL to be real and not a con - still waiting to see, Im sorry that a random dickheads assurance is not enough for myself.

If BFL wanted me and all others to stop questioning their claims now, the easiest way would be to ship a BFL as a review unit to a credible site, eg tomshardware.

Good luck, I hope you have managed to calm down and please see a shrink about your inability to handle confrontations.

The only one making baseless claims here is you, sparky.  You're the one throwing a tantrum because BFL won't ship you a unit in a week.


You are the one sidestepping the argument.  You next quote proves as much.


Been done several times.  Gigavps posted a video. I believe at least one other person did.  I have a good number of units running in my basement as do hundreds of other people.  What, exactly, qualifies as a "group of people" and why does it need to be a "group?"

Stop sidestepping the issue.  What proof is adequate?  I had assumed that it would go without saying that the proof you require hadn't already been provided numerous times, but apparently you're too stupid to figure that fact out, so I will spell it out for you:  What is adequate proof that has not already been provided in the past?


No problem, hambone, here you:

"certainty" - definition: Without a doubt.  Unquestionable.  Unable to be disputed. 

Lets looks at your contextual use of the word:


It is indisputable that BFL has produced a product that hashes ~800 MH/s at ~80w.  It is indisputable that BFL has shipped many of these units.  It is indisputable, without a a doubt and completely unquestionable that these units exist in the real world, operate and are being sold.  Ergo, your use of the word and by extension your definition of the word is wrong. 

"leap of faith": Definition - accept a premise without evidence or confirmation.

Let's look at your contextual use of the phrase:


Since we have already established that these devices exist, that they are being sold and that they perform as currently advertised it can not be a "leap of faith" since there is evidence and confirmation.  Ergo, your use of the phrase, and by extension your definition of the phrase is wrong.

"completely" - Definition - Totally, utterly, wholly, fully, entirely.

Let's look at your contextual use of the word:


Since we have already established that these devices exist, and we have already established that people have visited the offices, since we have already established that many, many people have been in communications with BFL, since we have already established that these devices have been sold and shipped, the company is at least partially verified (most would say it is completely verified, but lets not split hairs.)  Ergo, your use of the word and by extension your definition of the word is completely and utterly (wholly if you will) wrong.

So there you have it, hambone.  You are certainly wrong; Completely and utterly.  In a word, you sir are an idiot.


Yes, the award I was expecting was for you to be able to understand basic communication of the fact that my experience in the very subject being discussed puts me in a unique position to assess performance of the subject at hand.  Apparently I thought too highly of your cognitive skills.


You are absolutely correct. But the difference between me and you is I have the respect, history and track record with this community and of this community to allow me to make a claim that carries some weight simply due to my credibility within this context.  You, on the other hand, have none of the above, yet you are making claims and pronouncements like you have some authority in the matter, when you have neither the history or track record to back it up, nor have you actually ever communicated with or visited BFL.  Basically you have nothing to back up your claims, whereas I have both the historical record of my activities here and the photographic and physical evidence of my visits to BFL.


Really?  So how is one suppose to establish that they are an authority in a particular subject area?  Do tell, I am all ears.  You've proven to be so intelligent so far, I'm sure you'll have a gem here, too.


That's all you've got?  They miss their shipping times?  Seriously, that's it?  I've never defended their shipping estimates and I agree that they are, as currently performed, out of line.  However, that does not make them "completely unverified" nor does engender "no certainly, purely a leap of faith."  Generally, the majority of the people who have orders in are aware that there's the likely possibility of not getting their unit in six weeks, but they all believe they will eventually get it (otherwise why would they order?) - so your argument completely falls apart at this point (like it wasn't already a train wreck to begin with, I'm being generous... cause I'm magnanimous like that, yo.). 

So your entire diatribe is because they miss their ship dates (and continue to miss them) - like I said, the words you use do not mean what everyone else agrees they mean.  They only have meaning in your head.


Done.


Respect from a troll like you is pretty low on my priority list.  Trust me, I won't lose any sleep over it.  I'm not "screeching", though I am swearing... but only because I am absolutely incredulous that someone can be as ignorant as you and still able to use the internet.  Seriously, I wonder how you are able to even find the on switch on your computer, since it's questionable that you can even feed yourself or interact with society in a meaningful manner - you apparently have a worldview that is not shared by anyone else, so how do you function within society when your view contradicts that of everyone around you?  It is truly a mystery.


And I wouldn't enter into business with someone who is unable to even understand basic English.


I suggest you do the same, since you can't follow your own advice. 

tl;dr:  Sorry for the wall of text, but I figure I'd respond in kind to your stupidity.  What you mistake for "screeching " and a "tantrum" is the fact that I type 120wpm and can whip off a 1500 word missive in the time it takes most people to type a few sentences. The bottom line is, your entire argument is based around the fact that BFL misses their shipping date and you throw around claims and pronouncements that are just plain lies, all hinging solely on the fact that they have not historically actually shipped in 6 weeks.  That is literally your entire argument and it is incredibly flimsy, disingenuous and basically just a bunch of lies.

Calm down children, for starters not throwing e-tantrums when your baseless claims are questioned is a good way to get some credibility.



No, please do not attempt to side step this argument.
You do not have proof, you may or may not have some credibility with the community in certain areas. This does not make your word gospel.


A unit being demonstrated on a video for a group of people known to the community.
Again you do not seem to understand the difference being a logical conclusion and faith.


I challenge you to prove any flaws in my use of the definitions instead of throwing this childish tantrum.

Good for you, is there some kind of award you are expecting ?

I have also been involved in start ups and successfully started my own business and ran it for 5 years before selling to take an easier career path. This should have 0 weight on my argument as I do not know you personally so you would be required to have a leap of faith in my claims.

Im certain many forum members have also had similar success or do software engineering (me) or hardware engineering etc etc etc.
Spouting these claims without proof to boost your authority again just seems childish and immature.

Blatantly lying and continuing to lie about expected delivery times for over 6 months is not BAU for any respectable company. If you truly were a professional you would know this. Contracts are terminated in my field for much less.


I challenge you to do 2 things:

1) produce 1 fact regarding BFL that can be verified and carries some weight.

2) Grow the fuck up, stop screeching and swearing on the forums because people dared to question your claims. Frankly any respect you may have earned from me is lost due to the extremely childish and unprofessional way you handle yourself.
I wouldnt enter into business with someone that throws tantrums when people do not blindly agree with their unfounded claims.

3rd optional challenge:

3) Attempt a civil debate, respond with founded claims or STFU. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the definition of a debate so you know  to keep your assumptions out if it.

Good day sir.

Seriously Mem... what the fuck are you talking about?  If my credibility is not good enough, then what, exactly, is? 

I was doing the bitcoin thing long before BFL was even an idea.  I created one of the earlier pools from scratch and have run it honestly and openly from day one.  Thousands of people have trusted me with tens of thousands of bitcoins, and somehow you, with 104 posts, have more credibility to make pronouncements about a subject you apparently know little to nothing about?

On the other hand, we have me, who is an established member of the forums, a top pool operator and regular contributor here who has not only spoken to several individuals at BFL by email, phone and in person, but has also worked with BFL to debug early revs of the single, before anyone even believed it exists telling you what I've seen, etc...

Then, on top of that, we have BFL, who has demonstrated a viable product and shipped hundreds of units... all of this someone in your little mind qualifies as "Completely unverified with some rather dodgy history?"  Seriously?  What. The. Fuck.  What more do you want, exactly?  Jesus to tapdance into your room one night, ass rape you, and tell you that BFL is real and shipping a product?  I'm curious... seriously.  What is adequate for you?

You need to go back and reassess not only yourself, but also your definitions of "certainty," "leap of faith," and "completely."  Those words mean things, and the definitions you've assigned to them exist solely in your head and are not shared by the rest of the world.  That makes you the one who's "completely" wrong.

People like you have tried to paint me with the fanboy brush in the past, and it's just as ludicrous now as it was then.  I am no fanboy, I tell you exactly what I see and know from first hand experience.  If I'm unsure of something, I've said so.  If I disagree with something, I've said so.  But the thing is, my experience in both software and hardware development, coupled with the fact that I have owned and run a number of small businesses in the past gives me an apparently unique perspective compared to 99.9% of the people who post here - I know what it's like to start up a business.  I know what it's like to deal with customers, especially when you are short staffed. I also know what it's like to design a product from the ground up.  All the "dodgy" things you bitch about or try to hang your hat on are normal parts of running an unestablished business.  Some of them are errors, some of them are problems, that is true... but these types of things happen to nearly every business that has wild success in the beginning without expecting it.  Hell, these things happen to just about any business in the beginning. 

You know nothing.  Stop typing until you learn at least some basic facts, because it's clear you have none.

Wow - I have some bridges to sell you buddy
This is each individuals choice, if are to base your decision on a "trust me" so be it.

When I clicked on this thread, like most others I was hoping for more substance than "I spent $$$ and trust them you should too".

We have a few key members here adamant that it is legit (and I hope it is) but the same members absolutely refuse to provide any substantial evidence.

BFL at this point in time is completely unverified with some rather dodgy history, ie lying about delivery times for over 6 months and still continuing to do so.

There is no certainty, it is purely a leap of faith - its disappointing to see that people in this thread cannot grasp that others will not blindly follow simply because they believe (*gasp* free thinking individuals !!!).

This thread is here for people to ask any questions from someone who has been to BFL, it seems when people actually do ask questions they are just short of attacked and riddiculed for not having blind faith.




I dont have faith, but I do have hope. Im hoping for substance.

Mem, if you don't want to believe what he says, that's fine.  That's your choice, entirely.  The rest of us, however, do not need scientific proof to believe that they are a legitimate company.  At some point, "good enough" comes into play...

How exactly can you confirm this ?

Are we really expected to have unaccountable forum members vouchsafe a company, lol.
I know a few religions that would love to have someone like yourself door knocking, same aggressive blind faith and substance lacking arguments are used


Wow that sounds like another story I have heard:
"really! i walked into the desert and a burning bush TALKED TO ME!"

No no no my blind zealot, you are utterly full of shit.
You are literally screeching insults at people for not blindly trusting you and a company that has numerous questions surrounding it.

Comprehend what "The burden of proof" is and deal with it, Id advise the same to BFL.

Perhaps you are a religious fundamentalist, so I say this to you:
I have no wish for debates based on beliefs, give me substance or STFU.

Dude, please try to find word "beg" in any form in my post. Also, try reading their FAQ and notice there is no links where I can check if BFL single banned from my country, instead there is "please contact" there, so I did contacted, as they asked (you can tell "beg" from "ask", do you?). No response. Not very encouraging to send them money if they are as responsive as with this simple question.

read his posts:

I asked them about problems shipping to my country, cause they asked to "please" contact us on this question. No reply after weeks. Very impolite and discouraging.

note the "please". Isn't it like they are asking me to contact them? So I did asked simple question and haven't heard back from them since (not an autoresponder even).

He says he sent a simple question because he thought BFL is begging him to ask them something.
I run my own internet business and it is very evident when you are contacted by a customer and when you are contacted by a time waster.
Replying to time wasters is very draining.

You're trying to insult the guy smarts after he posted the topic of his unanswered email like his question is so insignificant he was stupid to have asked it... That shows stupid you are, his question might not be of any significance to you but it does to him, and not having a question you believe important answered reduces the trust a customer would have with a busines. There are no bad questions, there are badly worded questions. Only the real fool accepts everything without questioning it.

If your questions are as smart as your interpretation of the word "please" on their website then it's no wonder they didn't reply to you.

My experience is, that they replied in 3 days to my technical question. And it was after ordering 
Now I'm just eagerly waiting 

They've always been very responsive with me.  Maybe try calling them instead.  A VoIP service would avoid the international rates.
http://www.butterflylabs.com/contact - bottom-right shows their phone number.

I asked them about problems shipping to my country, cause they asked to "please" contact us on this question. No reply after weeks. Very impolite and discouraging.

When I first decided to buy, I asked a question about singles, they answered mine after one day, then I asked a couple more and they also answered all my questions, then I decided to visit them and see it for myself before I buy, they helped me and in their busy time showed me around and answered more questions, so yes they are answering.

and I wasn't asking questions like, "are you real" or "how can I make sure you don't steal my money" , I was asking about lead time, availibility and unit dimensions, payment methods etc, if you ask them a question a customer might ask I'm sure they will be happy to answer you but if you ask them a question like "why does bla bla , when bla bla is bla bla so why should I bla bla" , I don't think they'll waste their time

*** Someone lock this thread please it is getting very stale with BFL haters and people who envy people who have ordered from BFL.

Isn't it just a shameful lie? Reading their faq few weeks ago I encountered this note the "please". Isn't it like they are asking me to contact them? So I did asked simple question and haven't heard back from them since (not an autoresponder even).

So you saying they are trying to answer every question, when they are not even responding questions they ask for is giving me doubts about your story.

I remember seeing that conversation when it happened and I'm not convinced he will win (but I hope you do D&T!!).  Even if he hasn't shown his receipt / order # to anyone at all, it is still fairly obvious when he made the order.  My guess is that it would not be hard at all to figure out who he is based on that timeslot and bump his order up a few weeks. 

Throw some of that cash to the OpenBitASIC project.

Please make an epic thread about it when you win, will you? Thanks!