Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 23.

kibblesnbits

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Quote

The main reason that monopolies are illegal is because buyers get screwed and sellers can essentially charge whatever they want. ASICMiner essentially had a monopoly on in hand ASIC mining hardware that ships immediately for the last six months, so they could rip buyers off.

I still don't believe a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware at ASICMiner prices and mined with it made their investment in bitcoin back. Can you point to a single example of where a buyer of ASICMiner hardware got a good deal and achieved ROI by mining? I can't.

The only reason they lowered their prices of blades and USB miners to more reasonable levels recently (but they are still bitcoin losers in my opinion) is because of exploding difficulty and increased competition.

You're completely wrong, maybe you don't understand how auctions work. AM had in-hand equipment for immediate sale. Friedcat stated that a small number of blades would be placed for auction to determine the price. People in that initial purchase paid I believe between 70-75 BTC for the privilege for being first. Another set of auctions for larger amounts of blades, people paid around 50 BTC (me included). I believed that was a fair price for the difficulty, device hash rate, power, size, etc. AM did not set the high price. AM did not essentially "charge what they want".

jspielberg

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 255

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

kendog77

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Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 09:01:44 AM

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:37:21 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:28:11 AM

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:14:06 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI. The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price. AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days. AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

True, it's business as usual in the bitcoin mining world. With the exception of a few folks in the DIY community on this site, everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. It's actually pretty sad.

BFL, Avalon, and ASICMiner are some of the worst ripoff offenders, and don't even get me started on folks who auction off ASICs on ebay and this site.

I'll reiterate. ASICMINER, so far, has always delivered product on-hand and on-time. Don't lump them in with BFL and Avalon. Also, just as long as bid-shilling isn't happening, auctions are the best way to find the true value/price of anything. If someone wants to spend $1,000 for a Beanie Baby or $1,000,000 for a Picasso, that's the value. The BTC community set the high prices on AM devices, not friedcat.

The main reason that monopolies are illegal is because buyers get screwed and sellers can essentially charge whatever they want. ASICMiner essentially had a monopoly on in hand ASIC mining hardware that ships immediately for the last six months, so they could rip buyers off.

I still don't believe a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware at ASICMiner prices and mined with it made their investment in bitcoin back. Can you point to a single example of where a buyer of ASICMiner hardware got a good deal and achieved ROI by mining? I can't.

The only reason they lowered their prices of blades and USB miners to more reasonable levels recently (but they are still bitcoin losers in my opinion) is because of exploding difficulty and increased competition.

bitcoiner49er

sr. member

Activity: 457

Merit: 250

Quote from: oaxaca on August 29, 2013, 08:58:35 AM

Quote from: chsados on August 29, 2013, 08:37:30 AM

Bunch of new tx's coming through

https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

All those 103 BTC transactions look like Batch 3.

That is good! YiFu is following through. I know we've all been clamoring to see something happen, so let's give him the moment to make it better.

lemonte

hero member

Activity: 624

Merit: 502

kibblesnbits

hero member

Activity: 557

Merit: 500

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:37:21 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:28:11 AM

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:14:06 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI. The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price. AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days. AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

True, it's business as usual in the bitcoin mining world. With the exception of a few folks in the DIY community on this site, everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. It's actually pretty sad.

BFL, Avalon, and ASICMiner are some of the worst ripoff offenders, and don't even get me started on folks who auction off ASICs on ebay and this site.

I'll reiterate. ASICMINER, so far, has always delivered product on-hand and on-time. Don't lump them in with BFL and Avalon. Also, just as long as bid-shilling isn't happening, auctions are the best way to find the true value/price of anything. If someone wants to spend $1,000 for a Beanie Baby or $1,000,000 for a Picasso, that's the value. The BTC community set the high prices on AM devices, not friedcat.

koob

full member

Activity: 204

Merit: 100

Quote from: oaxaca on August 29, 2013, 08:58:35 AM

All those 103 BTC transactions look like Batch 3.

Yeh, those are batch#3 refunds.

oaxaca

hero member

Activity: 671

Merit: 500

Quote from: chsados on August 29, 2013, 08:37:30 AM

Bunch of new tx's coming through

https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

All those 103 BTC transactions look like Batch 3.

Tsukene

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

Quote from: kleeck on August 29, 2013, 07:46:47 AM

Exclusive footage of Yifu:

+1

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Quote from: BitSyncom on August 28, 2013, 05:52:11 PM

Quote from: dnaleor on August 28, 2013, 05:48:49 PM

I hope a lot of people will ask for a refund, in that way, the group buys will receive their chips faster Wink

(as I suspect that refunds for group buys are not practically possible)

speak to the group buyer who is responsible for that.

Quote from: pajak666 on August 28, 2013, 05:49:08 PM

So the "chips are stuck at customs" statement was a lie, he publicly stated a lie to all his investors. Every judge in every jurisdiction loves that kind of stuff.
Double selling pre-ordered hardware + public lying to investors.
Hope to see you with pirateat40 behind bars.
WE DEMAND A CLEAR DEADLINE FOR REFUNDS, NO EMPTY PROMISES THIS TIME
LOL you coward suddenly you can make refunds, you are afraid of hard time in prison, that's it!

lol! you think if I got the skills to make ASICs don't you think I can run a scam better than this?
to be honest this isn't good for my chi/emotional well being and I'd like to wash my hands of it.

let's hope in the future not doing any pre-sells would solve all these problems.

This thread is priceless.

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Quote from: noah tall on August 28, 2013, 08:34:18 PM

1 - Refund all who have already requested it NOW!

2 - Refund all who will request it within 24 hours!

3 - Post an apology immediately telling us what really happened

Then you can start mending your chi.

Quote from: kleeck on August 29, 2013, 07:46:47 AM

Exclusive footage of Yifu:

chsados

hero member

Activity: 662

Merit: 545

Bunch of new tx's coming through

https://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN

kendog77

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:28:11 AM

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:14:06 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI. The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price. AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days. AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

True, it's business as usual in the bitcoin mining world. With the exception of a few folks in the DIY community on this site, everyone is trying to rip everyone else off. It's actually pretty sad.

BFL, Avalon, and ASICMiner are some of the worst ripoff offenders, and don't even get me started on folks who auction off ASICs on ebay and this site.

kibblesnbits

hero member

Activity: 557

Merit: 500

Quote from: kendog77 on August 29, 2013, 08:14:06 AM

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

It's the consumers fault (I'm a consumer) if they never reached ROI. The first several blade sales were through auction, so we set the price. AM had that equipment to me, fully operational and meeting specs, in less than four days. AM would be the only company I would feel comfortable buying from at the moment.

johnyj

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1012

Beyond Imagination

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

You can make ASIC devices for scrypt, just add some memory chip

Mining device manufacturing is not rocket science, soon there will be many chip maker out there, but wether these hashing power will be centralized is a big question

I remember recently BFL jody said that people who ordered Singles (60GH) often ordered 3, 6, 12 or more, that is 360GH/person, hopefully this will keep the hashing power distributed

eroxors

legendary

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Think. Positive. Thoughts.

Quote from: Pompobit on August 29, 2013, 06:06:15 AM

I'm pissed as you, but now insult Yufu like there's no tomorrow does not help anybody.

He broke ToS with the delay, now he is trying to remedy in some way. Although the simple refund may not be enough (assembly costs already paid, deals fallen, community works trashed (see Bkk), etc...) he seems willing to find a solution.

Good suggestions can help.
Insulting only, not.

The community was surprisingly quiet and patient during lead time and only started pressing Yifu when delivery dates came and went and then when he provided excuses that were clearly lies as a cause for the delay.

Yifu is a child who cares only for his own interests. He has used the forums to enrich himself and start the company and now we are nothing more than flies that interrupt his Chi, despite the fact that he holds tens of millions of OUR money/product.

He has NOT been cooperative, he has been obstinate. No communication. Lies for excuses. Insulting.

He needs to apologize. Then he needs to provide full refunds AND chips+compensation for those who have already invested in substantial hardware purchases.

kendog77

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: kibblesnbits on August 29, 2013, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

I wouldn't be so fast to give ASICMiner a pass. I don't think a single person who bought ASICMiner hardware to mine actually made their bitcoin back. Sure, some folks may have done OK by selling to a greater fool, but ASICMiner prices are outrageous so buying ASICMiner hardware to mine is a losing proposition for the miner.

kibblesnbits

hero member

Activity: 557

Merit: 500

Quote from: fasmax on August 28, 2013, 06:07:37 PM

This all is very unfortunate.
Could this be the end of Bit-Coins?
Looks like all the hashing power is going to end up in just a few peoples hands.
What made bit-coin great was the ability for anyone who wanted to mine to do so.
This has all changed and could be the downfall for bit-coin.
Maybe it's time to discontinue the use of bit-coin's and start using lite-coin's.

I hate to say it, but I think you might be right. GPUs were the great equalizer. Anyone could walk into a computer store and walk out with hashing equipment. Now, you are entirely at the mercy of ASIC companies. The temptation is too great for these manufacturers not to ship. Why should they? They have 100% of the control - they have your money, your equipment, and all the time they need. Only when the devices are worthless are they shipped. With the exception of ASICMINER, there's so much conclusive evidence of foul-play, it makes me never want to buy another ASIC again. I feel that if this continues, the BTC community may collectively say "enough" and move to LTC. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't make ASICs for the scrypt protocol.

rebelrat

newbie

Activity: 52

Merit: 0

Without the startup money from the community there would be no Avalon chips.
YIFU used the community's money against the interests of the community to gain a
competitive edge and took full advantage of it to enrich himself and his gang. The
hype of Bitcoin reaching $260 did not help either, now unbelievable prices ($50,000++)
for Avalon batch 2 & 3 were offered.
Ultimately this may kill Bitcoin as a currency, as the "ASIC industry" as a whole seems to adhere
to extreme cut-throat business practices. A monopoly on mining is looming - maybe that is how the
mysterious Satoshi had planned it all along. Considering how many coins he mined for himself at the
very beginning, nothing would surprise me with the ASIC mafia anymore. Just my five cents.

kleeck

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

https://karatcoin.co

Exclusive footage of Yifu:

Topic: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 23. (Read 186795 times)