Inoue vs Donaire II discussion - page 28.

crzy

full member

Activity: 2128

Merit: 180

Quote from: bisdak40 on April 18, 2022, 04:44:37 PM

@OP, since we already have the date for this three-belt unification fight, would you mind changing the title of this thread and putting the date so the fans here would have a clearer glimpse of when the fight would take place by just looking at the title.

Inoue vs Donaire Title Unification Fight (June 7)

Finally, its good to see the final date and hoping that it will push through.
This can be a good rematch between this two, its good to be more specific on the title so bettors can easily find this thread and read some of the comments here. Donaire have to be more prepared this time, because Inoue is always the hardest boxer to fight with on his level, can’t wait for this one.

bisdak40

hero member

Activity: 2072

Merit: 542

DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook

@OP, since we already have the date for this three-belt unification fight, would you mind changing the title of this thread and putting the date so the fans here would have a clearer glimpse of when the fight would take place by just looking at the title.

Inoue vs Donaire Title Unification Fight (June 7)

blockman

hero member

Activity: 3066

Merit: 629

Vave.com - Crypto Casino

Quote from: stadus on April 18, 2022, 03:42:40 AM

Donaire is already a successful boxer, and he is named as the OLDEST BANTAMWEIGHT CHAMPION IN BOXING HISTORY ....His dream is not over yet, he would go for his ultimate dream which is to become an undisputed champion and this is a step to make and he should win the fight.

Yeah, and I believe that he'll be close to that after this fight. He's a determined fighter and Donaire would be pursuing that and I guess that he won't disappoint himself.
That's what he has to do before his retirement so that he has left a legacy that he'll be remembered for even though he's already on the retirement. Just like what Pacman did and had throughout his entire boxing career.

carlisle1

hero member

Activity: 2744

Merit: 541

Campaign Management?"Hhampuz" is the Man

Quote from: South Park on April 18, 2022, 12:56:52 PM

Quote from: harizen on April 17, 2022, 06:37:19 PM

Quote from: Japinat on April 17, 2022, 08:56:21 AM

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

As far as my own observation is concerned, yes 100% Donaire can hit Inoue even how far the Japanese Monster improved his speed.

However, the critical stage will be, if the fight lasts for long, that was a disadvantage for an aging Donaire. Stamina-wise, the monster can lasts up to 12 rounds with continuous bouts. Remember in their first fight, after hitting brutally by Donaire, the monster takes time to recover until he slowly gained momentum in the later rounds and does the aggressiveness on that part as he knows Donaire is much even tired compared to him.

Donaire is ahead for me in the early rounds but if Inoue survives those, that's dangerous. In Donaire's previous fights after losing to Inoue, he tried his best to finish the fight early and he succeeded. Different story though against the monster.

I think this is going to be the key, can Donaire get enough of an advantage over Inoue on the score cards early on to the point he can nullify the aggressiveness and stamina that we will see from Inoue on the later rounds? If Donaire can do this then his abilities as a counter-puncher will help him overcome the aggressiveness of Inoue, but if that is not the case and he needs to also look for opportunities to strike at Inoue late in the fight Inoue will beat him with his stamina alone.

Base from how we saw Donaire's last fight, he learned that patience to wait and keep observing while doing good defense and counter punches.

He can enhance that strategy and wait for a good opening in case Inoue got careless while doing his tactics. The pinoy flash still has that strong

combination if ever he got that hook plus the solid conversions, his fighting chance winning this fight will be amazing. A good upset and a possible

rematch for the trilogy before he decided to hang his gloves.

South Park

hero member

Activity: 2884

Merit: 794

I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!

Quote from: harizen on April 17, 2022, 06:37:19 PM

Quote from: Japinat on April 17, 2022, 08:56:21 AM

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

As far as my own observation is concerned, yes 100% Donaire can hit Inoue even how far the Japanese Monster improved his speed.

However, the critical stage will be, if the fight lasts for long, that was a disadvantage for an aging Donaire. Stamina-wise, the monster can lasts up to 12 rounds with continuous bouts. Remember in their first fight, after hitting brutally by Donaire, the monster takes time to recover until he slowly gained momentum in the later rounds and does the aggressiveness on that part as he knows Donaire is much even tired compared to him.

Donaire is ahead for me in the early rounds but if Inoue survives those, that's dangerous. In Donaire's previous fights after losing to Inoue, he tried his best to finish the fight early and he succeeded. Different story though against the monster.

I think this is going to be the key, can Donaire get enough of an advantage over Inoue on the score cards early on to the point he can nullify the aggressiveness and stamina that we will see from Inoue on the later rounds? If Donaire can do this then his abilities as a counter-puncher will help him overcome the aggressiveness of Inoue, but if that is not the case and he needs to also look for opportunities to strike at Inoue late in the fight Inoue will beat him with his stamina alone.

mirakal

legendary

Activity: 3108

Merit: 1290

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: harizen on April 17, 2022, 06:37:19 PM

Quote from: Japinat on April 17, 2022, 08:56:21 AM

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

As far as my own observation is concerned, yes 100% Donaire can hit Inoue even how far the Japanese Monster improved his speed.

However, the critical stage will be, if the fight lasts for long, that was a disadvantage for an aging Donaire. Stamina-wise, the monster can lasts up to 12 rounds with continuous bouts. Remember in their first fight, after hitting brutally by Donaire, the monster takes time to recover until he slowly gained momentum in the later rounds and does the aggressiveness on that part as he knows Donaire is much even tired compared to him.

Donaire is ahead for me in the early rounds but if Inoue survives those, that's dangerous. In Donaire's previous fights after losing to Inoue, he tried his best to finish the fight early and he succeeded. Different story though against the monster.

Indeed! I've also thought about the same, the fact is that they've surely learned on their first encounter and that they both have upgraded their weaknesses so that it wouldn't become a problem for them on the day of the fight while they are also improving their strengths as they both already know where are their weak points and that they've proved that their punches is really taking a toll on their body. The problem is that their stamina differs badly because yes as you have stated, Donaire may try to be more aggressive in the early rounds and try to knock out the monster but the monster's play would be that he would let Donaire to get tired first before he make his moves.

Russlenat

hero member

Activity: 2716

Merit: 904

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 17, 2022, 11:28:49 PM

Quote from: Reatim on April 17, 2022, 11:16:38 PM

Quote from: chaser15 on April 17, 2022, 06:52:44 PM

I admit that Naoya Inoue has more chances to win the fight but even how small the chance of Donaire winning this rematch is, a chance is still a chance. There's always an upset and that is possible. I also have some reasons to believe why Donaire can win the fight.

He is the All time favorite considering that he Beats Nonito In their first bout but thistime? it will change .

This is my personal take. During Donaire's first fight with Naoya, he had more chances of winning. That was an opportunity which was more reachable than their rematch in the coming months. In fact, Donaire showed to the world that Naoya is not the monster that everybody is afraid of. He even almost knocked him down if I can still remember it right. But I guess from their first match and their second one, Donaire must be growing a little slower and weaker.

Donaire's career is not over yet and I firmly believe on his skill set that he still have what it takes to defeat Naoya Inoue, not because I'm his fan but because I'm keeping track of his fights since he was defeated by Inoue by a unanimous decision. I would agree that he doesn't stand a chance or somehow his chance is lesser now if Donaire have been lost on his fights after that defeat against Inoue but no, he still managed to knockout two decent boxer in just 1 year who also have a clean record.

stadus

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1292

Hhampuz for Campaign management

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on April 17, 2022, 07:55:22 AM

Quote from: stadus on April 16, 2022, 12:50:24 PM

Quote from: Sanitough on April 15, 2022, 04:09:33 PM

Quote from: stadus on April 15, 2022, 01:13:55 PM

I can see that Inoue will try to be less aggressive on the early rounds and will look to make the fight long. Yes, a trilogy is bound to happen if Donaire will make this fight into his favor.

Hopefully, Donaire can win and will strip Inoue of his belts.
I am sure Donaire will be obligated to give a trilogy in case he wins, so let's see if we have a different outcome in this rematch.

BTW, Casimero is just waiting to fight the winner of the rematch, but it seems like he is getting the attention. Grin

I guess he should continue trash talking after he can defend his title.

That is still undecided though if Donaire can really strip Inoue this time, I would not deny that I'm for Donaire but it is really hard to deny Inoue's prowess and we've saw that Donaire is struggling to hurt Inoue because the latter is trying not to feel the punches from Donaire. But in this match we will see a different version of them as they will improve more.

If Donaire will manange to defeat Inoue here, I agree that a trilogy will happen.

I think majority of us here are Donaire fans, we have seen him grow in the last 10-15 years becoming one of the best. But yes, it will be a very hard fight for him against teh Monster which for me is not yet hitting his prime years during their first fight and yet he already defeated Donaire. So he has improved a lot since then that's why Donaire's chance are slim but he won't take that, he will fight and wanted to test Inoue again.

Donaire is already a successful boxer, and he is named as the OLDEST BANTAMWEIGHT CHAMPION IN BOXING HISTORY ....His dream is not over yet, he would go for his ultimate dream which is to become an undisputed champion and this is a step to make and he should win the fight.

Pamadar

legendary

Activity: 2982

Merit: 1028

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 17, 2022, 11:28:49 PM

Quote from: Reatim on April 17, 2022, 11:16:38 PM

Quote from: chaser15 on April 17, 2022, 06:52:44 PM

I admit that Naoya Inoue has more chances to win the fight but even how small the chance of Donaire winning this rematch is, a chance is still a chance. There's always an upset and that is possible. I also have some reasons to believe why Donaire can win the fight.

He is the All time favorite considering that he Beats Nonito In their first bout but thistime? it will change .

This is my personal take. During Donaire's first fight with Naoya, he had more chances of winning. That was an opportunity which was more reachable than their rematch in the coming months. In fact, Donaire showed to the world that Naoya is not the monster that everybody is afraid of. He even almost knocked him down if I can still remember it right. But I guess from their first match and their second one, Donaire must be growing a little slower and weaker.

His win would be an upset because he is the underdog at 4.20. If you are a Donaire fan, betting on moneyline is a good bet.

As a fan, that odd is really great reward if Donaire upset Inoue on this upcoming rematch.

Bookies might see the gap from all the possible advantages, though in this sport, upset is always present and fans are
mostly aiming and hoping that their pick will win.We never know how prepared Donaire in this fight, he will try everything
to be the last man standing and earn what title Inoue's holding right now.

Fundamentals Of

sr. member

Activity: 2380

Merit: 366

Quote from: Reatim on April 17, 2022, 11:16:38 PM

Quote from: chaser15 on April 17, 2022, 06:52:44 PM

I admit that Naoya Inoue has more chances to win the fight but even how small the chance of Donaire winning this rematch is, a chance is still a chance. There's always an upset and that is possible. I also have some reasons to believe why Donaire can win the fight.

He is the All time favorite considering that he Beats Nonito In their first bout but thistime? it will change .

This is my personal take. During Donaire's first fight with Naoya, he had more chances of winning. That was an opportunity which was more reachable than their rematch in the coming months. In fact, Donaire showed to the world that Naoya is not the monster that everybody is afraid of. He even almost knocked him down if I can still remember it right. But I guess from their first match and their second one, Donaire must be growing a little slower and weaker.

His win would be an upset because he is the underdog at 4.20. If you are a Donaire fan, betting on moneyline is a good bet.

Reatim

sr. member

Activity: 2828

Merit: 357

Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: chaser15 on April 17, 2022, 06:52:44 PM

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on April 17, 2022, 07:55:22 AM

I think majority of us here are Donaire fans, we have seen him grow in the last 10-15 years becoming one of the best. But yes, it will be a very hard fight for him against teh Monster which for me is not yet hitting his prime years during their first fight and yet he already defeated Donaire. So he has improved a lot since then that's why Donaire's chance are slim but he won't take that, he will fight and wanted to test Inoue again.

I'm with Nonito Donaire to win the fight, not as a fan, but because regardless of his status in this fight, Favorite or Underdog, I will support any PH representative.

And I'm sure Nonito now will add more on this fight because he once lose to This Japanese boxer and wanted to take a revenge to raise the flag of Philippines .

Quote

I admit that Naoya Inoue has more chances to win the fight but even how small the chance of Donaire winning this rematch is, a chance is still a chance. There's always an upset and that is possible. I also have some reasons to believe why Donaire can win the fight.

He is the All time favorite considering that he Beats Nonito In their first bout but thistime? it will change .

Quote

I don't fucking care how strong Naoya Inoue is as what will be my reason to support him? I also like that Donaire is an underdog as I can expect good odds betting on him. It's good to see my own pick having good odds.

Both of them has a Strong punch and can bring down each other with single release .

chaser15

legendary

Activity: 2688

Merit: 1065

Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on April 17, 2022, 07:55:22 AM

I think majority of us here are Donaire fans, we have seen him grow in the last 10-15 years becoming one of the best. But yes, it will be a very hard fight for him against teh Monster which for me is not yet hitting his prime years during their first fight and yet he already defeated Donaire. So he has improved a lot since then that's why Donaire's chance are slim but he won't take that, he will fight and wanted to test Inoue again.

I'm with Nonito Donaire to win the fight, not as a fan, but because regardless of his status in this fight, Favorite or Underdog, I will support any PH representative.

I admit that Naoya Inoue has more chances to win the fight but even how small the chance of Donaire winning this rematch is, a chance is still a chance. There's always an upset and that is possible. I also have some reasons to believe why Donaire can win the fight.

I don't fucking care how strong Naoya Inoue is as what will be my reason to support him? I also like that Donaire is an underdog as I can expect good odds betting on him. It's good to see my own pick having good odds.

passwordnow

hero member

Activity: 3136

Merit: 591

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Japinat on April 17, 2022, 08:56:21 AM

I am a fan of Donaire but I will not be biased with my judgment, I still think that the result of this rematch will not be far from the result of the first fight. The younger fighter (Inoue) will still dominate as he can use his advantage which is his speed and power punching on Donaire.

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

We're all just going to guess and there's no other basis that we can get aside from their first match. But the thing now is that both of them have become better.
And that's for sure, we're all likely thinking that Donaire would be able to maximize where he's good at and still many of us, fans think that his loss was just a fluke.

harizen

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1398

For support ➡️ help.bc.game

Quote from: Japinat on April 17, 2022, 08:56:21 AM

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

As far as my own observation is concerned, yes 100% Donaire can hit Inoue even how far the Japanese Monster improved his speed.

However, the critical stage will be, if the fight lasts for long, that was a disadvantage for an aging Donaire. Stamina-wise, the monster can lasts up to 12 rounds with continuous bouts. Remember in their first fight, after hitting brutally by Donaire, the monster takes time to recover until he slowly gained momentum in the later rounds and does the aggressiveness on that part as he knows Donaire is much even tired compared to him.

Donaire is ahead for me in the early rounds but if Inoue survives those, that's dangerous. In Donaire's previous fights after losing to Inoue, he tried his best to finish the fight early and he succeeded. Different story though against the monster.

Japinat

hero member

Activity: 3052

Merit: 685

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on April 17, 2022, 07:55:22 AM

Quote from: stadus on April 16, 2022, 12:50:24 PM

Quote from: Sanitough on April 15, 2022, 04:09:33 PM

Quote from: stadus on April 15, 2022, 01:13:55 PM

I can see that Inoue will try to be less aggressive on the early rounds and will look to make the fight long. Yes, a trilogy is bound to happen if Donaire will make this fight into his favor.

Hopefully, Donaire can win and will strip Inoue of his belts.
I am sure Donaire will be obligated to give a trilogy in case he wins, so let's see if we have a different outcome in this rematch.

BTW, Casimero is just waiting to fight the winner of the rematch, but it seems like he is getting the attention. Grin

I guess he should continue trash talking after he can defend his title.

That is still undecided though if Donaire can really strip Inoue this time, I would not deny that I'm for Donaire but it is really hard to deny Inoue's prowess and we've saw that Donaire is struggling to hurt Inoue because the latter is trying not to feel the punches from Donaire. But in this match we will see a different version of them as they will improve more.

If Donaire will manange to defeat Inoue here, I agree that a trilogy will happen.

I think majority of us here are Donaire fans, we have seen him grow in the last 10-15 years becoming one of the best. But yes, it will be a very hard fight for him against teh Monster which for me is not yet hitting his prime years during their first fight and yet he already defeated Donaire. So he has improved a lot since then that's why Donaire's chance are slim but he won't take that, he will fight and wanted to test Inoue again.

I am a fan of Donaire but I will not be biased with my judgment, I still think that the result of this rematch will not be far from the result of the first fight. The younger fighter (Inoue) will still dominate as he can use his advantage which is his speed and power punching on Donaire.

Donaire is a great counter puncher, but the question is, can he hit a moving Inoue?

cryptomaniac_xxx

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 540

Quote from: stadus on April 16, 2022, 12:50:24 PM

Quote from: Sanitough on April 15, 2022, 04:09:33 PM

Quote from: stadus on April 15, 2022, 01:13:55 PM

I can see that Inoue will try to be less aggressive on the early rounds and will look to make the fight long. Yes, a trilogy is bound to happen if Donaire will make this fight into his favor.

Hopefully, Donaire can win and will strip Inoue of his belts.
I am sure Donaire will be obligated to give a trilogy in case he wins, so let's see if we have a different outcome in this rematch.

BTW, Casimero is just waiting to fight the winner of the rematch, but it seems like he is getting the attention. Grin

I guess he should continue trash talking after he can defend his title.

That is still undecided though if Donaire can really strip Inoue this time, I would not deny that I'm for Donaire but it is really hard to deny Inoue's prowess and we've saw that Donaire is struggling to hurt Inoue because the latter is trying not to feel the punches from Donaire. But in this match we will see a different version of them as they will improve more.

If Donaire will manange to defeat Inoue here, I agree that a trilogy will happen.

I think majority of us here are Donaire fans, we have seen him grow in the last 10-15 years becoming one of the best. But yes, it will be a very hard fight for him against teh Monster which for me is not yet hitting his prime years during their first fight and yet he already defeated Donaire. So he has improved a lot since then that's why Donaire's chance are slim but he won't take that, he will fight and wanted to test Inoue again.

Russlenat

hero member

Activity: 2716

Merit: 904

Quote from: molsewid on April 16, 2022, 12:20:14 PM

Quote from: Russlenat on April 16, 2022, 05:56:36 AM

Of course, both of them will make an adjustment as not only Donaire sees that something has to be improved but Inoue as well. Inoue will prevent himself to get injured again, and he has to be careful and at the same time use a strategy that is effective to dominate Donaire.

Their last faced off also helps them as fighter to figure out what are their shortcomings during that fight or what else they can improve in themselves to keep on winning the battle. I believe Donaire has still the strength to fight Inoue despite his age gap but I will not going to set aside the possibility that Inoue will still dominate this battle and if that is the case then Donaire should definitely prepare for their second battle of Inoue. I am so excited to watch their rematch and see who's still the winner between the two great fighter.

Donaire would want that, probably his camp asks for this rematch so he could have another chance to avenge his loss and be a unified champion. Though it isn't easy for him to win, considering how he beat his previous opponent, that should give him better odds compared to the first fight.

livingfree

hero member

Activity: 2884

Merit: 579

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: AmoreJaz on April 16, 2022, 05:57:56 PM

Quote from: livingfree on April 16, 2022, 05:29:09 PM

Quote from: Russlenat on April 16, 2022, 05:56:36 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

From their last match, it's not only Donaire that got that sense of being stronger this time but it's also Inoue as well.

Of course, both of them will make an adjustment as not only Donaire sees that something has to be improved but Inoue as well. Inoue will prevent himself to get injured again, and he has to be careful and at the same time use a strategy that is effective to dominate Donaire.

That will be the aim of Inoue this time.

He has the spirit of possibly winning again for this rematch but he would do things that will make him avoid the same scene where he's been totally damaged by Donaire.

Quote from: serjent05 on April 16, 2022, 06:52:13 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

It's all about how he'll execute his plans and he's very responsible for himself so that's going to be a very big possibility for him. But as a fan, I don't also ignore the fact that Inoue's good.

I hope he won't get careless or fall in love with 1 punch KO style. I often see his fight get messy when he got carried away by this intention of 1 punch KO'ing his opponent.

He'll be careful but at the same time would also feel tense and hungry to win this match. But yeah, hopefully he won't be careless when they're in face to face.

the bookies are clearly favouring Inoue on this match. but if you feel Donaire will win this fight this time around, the odds are indeed good to bet on. the prep and strategies will matter here even if we say, Inoue is much younger than donaire. we have seen the power of donaire. so i believe we can't ignore the possibility that he may give damage to inoue.

Yup.

That's a better thing than if the bookies are in favor of Inoue. But the match is still going to take time so that could possibly change which I always get to see whenever there's a big match that's about to come.

It is Inoue that's being favored now but we're going to see how huge the change will be when the match is getting nearer.

AmoreJaz

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1102

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: livingfree on April 16, 2022, 05:29:09 PM

Quote from: Russlenat on April 16, 2022, 05:56:36 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

From their last match, it's not only Donaire that got that sense of being stronger this time but it's also Inoue as well.

Of course, both of them will make an adjustment as not only Donaire sees that something has to be improved but Inoue as well. Inoue will prevent himself to get injured again, and he has to be careful and at the same time use a strategy that is effective to dominate Donaire.

That will be the aim of Inoue this time.

He has the spirit of possibly winning again for this rematch but he would do things that will make him avoid the same scene where he's been totally damaged by Donaire.

Quote from: serjent05 on April 16, 2022, 06:52:13 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

It's all about how he'll execute his plans and he's very responsible for himself so that's going to be a very big possibility for him. But as a fan, I don't also ignore the fact that Inoue's good.

I hope he won't get careless or fall in love with 1 punch KO style. I often see his fight get messy when he got carried away by this intention of 1 punch KO'ing his opponent.

He'll be careful but at the same time would also feel tense and hungry to win this match. But yeah, hopefully he won't be careless when they're in face to face.

the bookies are clearly favouring Inoue on this match. but if you feel Donaire will win this fight this time around, the odds are indeed good to bet on. the prep and strategies will matter here even if we say, Inoue is much younger than donaire. we have seen the power of donaire. so i believe we can't ignore the possibility that he may give damage to inoue.

livingfree

hero member

Activity: 2884

Merit: 579

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: Russlenat on April 16, 2022, 05:56:36 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

From their last match, it's not only Donaire that got that sense of being stronger this time but it's also Inoue as well.

Of course, both of them will make an adjustment as not only Donaire sees that something has to be improved but Inoue as well. Inoue will prevent himself to get injured again, and he has to be careful and at the same time use a strategy that is effective to dominate Donaire.

That will be the aim of Inoue this time.

He has the spirit of possibly winning again for this rematch but he would do things that will make him avoid the same scene where he's been totally damaged by Donaire.

Quote from: serjent05 on April 16, 2022, 06:52:13 AM

Quote from: livingfree on April 15, 2022, 06:20:57 PM

It's all about how he'll execute his plans and he's very responsible for himself so that's going to be a very big possibility for him. But as a fan, I don't also ignore the fact that Inoue's good.

I hope he won't get careless or fall in love with 1 punch KO style. I often see his fight get messy when he got carried away by this intention of 1 punch KO'ing his opponent.

He'll be careful but at the same time would also feel tense and hungry to win this match. But yeah, hopefully he won't be careless when they're in face to face.

Topic: Inoue vs Donaire II discussion - page 28. (Read 8183 times)