Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 2. (Read 75978 times)

I agree with all of this entirely.

I wonder if finding large areas of land under very shallow water is the next big thing. So long as it is at least 12miles from land I think that you can develop it. I guess though you would need to have a considerable army or deterrent if you did start to construct something of real value. I wonder what it would take to be a recognised sovereign state.

I don't think as yet there is enough motivation for this to take off in a huge way.

I wonder what about just a GIANT ship. I know where the boat is constructed or registered when built is then where the boat is tied to and laws from that country then apply. However one possibility would perhaps be to build just one man made island and construct boats from there. I guess I only mention giant boats as an alternative over man made islands since I would expect they could cost less, you could make as many as required. Also with these man made islands that i have seen so far (not that many) they do look rather flat and vulnerable to big storms?  With advanced weather prediction I guess it could be possible to move your giant ship out of the way. The entire thing would need to be as solar powered as possible for sure. So I am not even sure for such a huge vessel you could capture/store anywhere near enough solar power to propel the ship and supply the population with the energy they need. I mean it could be possible.

If you could build a sea island though that could be a sovereign state that is recognised it would be very interesting. I mean by default I would have thought if it were more than 12 miles from any coast it would automatically be self governing. I am surprised some billionaires have not tried this already. To construct your very own country that has it's own sovereignty you would imagine would be very tempting.

Ha sorry I am going off topic. Interesting topic for sure though.

All good points.

Though those born into the system don't really have a choice.


I believe the #taxationistheft folks wish that this would become the majority view and the theft fans should be the ones to go and set up elsewhere.

I agree, every piece of land is taken by the ass rapists so there is no "if you don't like it just leave".


I agree. In time this should provide many of the solutions.

I also see seasteading as the solution for those that want to "leave the island". This also we will wait and see.

Your analogy is 100% correct. I actually thought it was very comprehensive and covered much

However, I was simply saying if I left and said no more of my sexy ass for the ruling class anymore. So long ass raper and those that want to continue bending over or see no other choice. I am leaving to my new island with others who don't wish to be ass raped any longer.

I would not expect to come back to ass rape island and get the same services (excluding ass rape) as those paying with their ass pipes. Not because essentially I would rationalise that I would be doing anything wrong, I mean why do we have to be ass raped, why can there not be another way. Mostly because you know that the others paying for everything with their ass are 100% going to take the view you are getting out of what they are being forced to experience. Are they to blame more than the ass raper? I guess if he is a patron is donating money/services in return for their ass ...then those receiving anal poundings are to blame more than he for the situation. However if he is enforcing anal rape and giving the services as compensation that is different.

 It's quite tough to actually apportion blame really because if they want to get assfucked more than to find alternative ways to exist then perhaps there is no blame. Merely people that do want to be assfucked and some that do not. The minority should either take a part of anal island and start their own thing or leave for the new island. That's if the minority did not want to get ass raped. If they were the majority then the ass raping fans should go and set up else where.

I am opting out of ass rape island (not that I should have to but really but because all the people with loose assholes have now have decided through lack of any other action to keep the status quo there).

I would not expect in anyway to return to the ass rape island to use their services or anything that is funded by the community getting assraped. They will rightly or wrongly assume you are using services their asses are financing and view you as taking the piss.

If for example the community thought it was fair you could return  and for a fee use services then I expect that would be okay.

You have to remember you need a critical mass of people to be able to really start their own island successfully and not many are willing to be the guinea pigs for this.

The only problem with your analogy I guess is there is no other island to go to where you can establish something under your own laws entirely. Well not that I am aware off. You would need to obtain majority or parity and just divide the current island up if the ass raper and his meat will not agree to you having a section of the current island.

I agree compulsory taxation is theft until you decide to willingly become part of it. Then it is just a system you are part of.

 I guess people can exist outside of this to a large extent but then their lives will be very different (perhaps much better) but not everyone can go off grid or find their piece of their island and start their own community.

The people I dislike the most in your analogy are not the ass rapists actually. I dislike the nay sayers and those that are getting ass raped and hate it but want to make sure you get ass raped too (preferably harder than they are so they can feel better) instead of trying your own path because they are too weak to try it even though they want to.

You have to be careful when upsetting the apple cart though because you don't want to introduce a system where you end up getting assfucked 1x a month for the same living standard (not accounting for more regular sex).

It is a very complex juggling act. I think the reason it still happens is because to organise and create a system outside of it is much harder than you would imagine especially as the land is already all all snapped up. Even if you found your own land/island and created a good thing it could be hard to protect it from other people who want to take your things and ass rape constantly for a long time.

To me tax could work well but it needs to be a very efficient system. Perhaps each country should set up a small section for people that want to opt out of the current tax system.  I'm not sure what it would be like to live there though.... ha i'm turning into the people i dislike the most.... lol actually no because i would certainly encourage others to leave and try the new place.

No doubt though compulsory tax without opting in is theft but I can not honestly say I could design a better system myself other than to streamline the shit out of the current system.

I think blockchain and smart contracts could actually be the start of something that could present a better system. We will wait and see.

I was excited to hear of the prospect of crypto island ( a while back). Perhaps if all current islands are claimed then when btc hits 1M some btc whales can construct some islands somewhere and the experiment can start. With enough money it may be possible to buy an island that is a claimed already but stake your own sovereignty on it after. Not sure if that is even possible.

I suspect they will just move to monaco or something where the ass rape is reduced to an ass spanking with a feather duster once every 5 years.

Imagine that there is a small island with many people just living their lives, they have no taxes but they have a wealthy patron that pays for their government. Roads, hospitals, police, etc.

His only condition is that he has to have anal sex with everyone on the island at least once a year.

This goes on for years, young people are born and when they turn 18 they do their civic duty and provide the guy with their anus for the sex contribution. The guy passes down the tradition to his male children and this goes on for generations.

Then the rumblings begin of certain people saying "yearly anal contributions are anal rape!". People justify the anal rape as something that's always been done. "If you don't like it you can just leave", "it's the price we pay for a civilized society!", "what about the roads!?!", "it's only anal rape if the government doesn't spend the money right", "it's not rape because it's legal", "it's not rape if they're gentle", "on my island he takes me to dinner before I am forced to have sex with him so it's not really rape". Everyone justifies anal rape as normal because they don't know any other way of getting government services so they just accept it as normal.

People getting anally raped is a normal thing. Because government services.

Someone may step forward and say "why don't we just only pay for the services we use? then we could stop being anally raped every year.". After all of the justifications for being raped anally people in the end don't like what the guy is saying mainly because it's easier for them to get anally raped than to pay for things they want. Some even enjoy it so to them it's not rape. Some just can't conceive of how such a system would work so they'd rather just keep getting their ass torn up because it's just how things work. They see him as a threat to their normal way of life and attack him in the hopes that he'll just shut up already.

Or worse, some people are exempt and tell the people getting raped that it's their duty ("think of it like paying rent"...even though you're paying my rent too). They even like the system because the people they don't like tend to get raped harder.

Then some people may finally say...we'll just create a floating island where we don't have to get anally raped and move there.

Instead of people saying "well that's your decision, good luck with that" they are openly hostile to such an idea. "I hope your island sinks!", "you'll end up getting raped by someone even if it's not called rape", "a society without anal rape just can't work", "what about the waves!?!", "Pirates!".

Anyone who paid US taxes or used Federal Reserve Notes are complicit in the white phosphorus attacks on innocent women and children.

In my own opinion yes , taxation is theft because the government collecting money in their people and suddenly the money of the people that they paying in taxes goes to pocket of government officials. Here in our country the tax of the people are going in the pockets of politicians , and other government agencies. There promises to do to the country are not been issued because the tax of the people are in their own pockets.

The interesting thing about the United States society, The Constitution and Amendments 1, 4, 5, 9, and 14 (and possibly others), show that you don't have to be a member of the United States society to live on land that is normally considered part of the United States. The Constitution and the listed Amendments, along with the courts, btw, have shown that if you stand as a [wo]man, it's up to you which society you belong to.

Because we have been so grossly mis-educated, we barely realize what is going on. Basically, if you are attacked by government (or anybody), or if you want to attack government or anybody, you can take it to Federal District Court and have the judge or jury decide. If you don't select the judge (called magistrate) it defaults to the jury.

The jury has the right through jury nullification to judge both the facts and the law. And there is almost no limit to the way they can judge. They can even rule a U.S. law of no effect in your case. But you need to make a good case, because they are 12 of your country people. And sometimes they don't think like you do.

Youtube search on "Karl Lentz" and "private membership association." Then study like there is no tomorrow... if you are serious.

Indeed. All this "public services" that the government forcibly imposes on the people could be provided cheaper and most probably better by free enterprise. If it's something that people want and they are willing to pay for, then other people will provide that good/service. If the people are not willing to pay for something, then it means the government shouldn't provide it either, because people do not want it.

Well you do have a point. Charities do not give out expecting to get something in return.

However, personally for me if i had received money or assistance from a charity on the basis of an illness or just because at one time I was hungry without food, then later in life I found myself with some surplus of funds I would donate to that charity that helped me previously.

I think it is fair to take from any source who will willingly give. I would likely pay back plus more if I could later. If i was never in that position then I don't think it would be unfair if I never reciprocated.

With tax if a system was developed you never had to pay in unless you wanted. Then it would be like joining a club with membership. I don't expect to enter club that members have to pay for for free and get the benefits they are funding.

Charity a different case.

You imply that it is not fair to receive benefits without paying in.

A charity provides benefits to people without expecting anything in return.

Government spends. That is their choice. They don't have to. But they choose to.

That is completely unrelated to them stealing peoples' money. If someone voluntarily donated all of their money to the government so that they would have the same amount of money as taxes they would spend it just the same. If a country bought a shitload of bitcoin at $1 and now has enough to for spending for the next 100 years they would spend it. It would not be expected that the people "pay them back" out of "fairness".

Or, when you give to charity, are you expecting to be compensated by the charity at some point?

No that would not be fair if they ever had an excess  to give back. Can you explain how that relates to the part of my post that you bolded? I mean it might but I can't see it.

But you would at least have a choice in what you're paying for.

I do not see much value in my contributions toward phosphorous bombing women and children in some far off place.

they seem to think that private companies would be better as if they wouldn't do something similar or worse like pay to just use the bathroom in the first place then make you pay to flush it

Taxation is not theft. Taxation is the dues for semi-mandatory membership to an enormous resource cooperative. How quickly anarcho-anythingists forget the simple joy of having flush toilets. Now, what happens to those dues AFTER collection – that's theft. And who's doing the thieving?
.. Anarcho-capitalists. Yeah, good luck with all that "liberty" when there's no authority to stop them from enslaving you completely.

Taxes are the price the rich pay the poor in exchange for the poor not hauling out the guillotines.
So really, they're not theft so much as extortion.

and how much of your taxes go to creating a "free and civilized society" and how much goes to the bloated salaries of your "representatives. keeping in mind that no matter how much you get taxed the government is always broke for some reason.

Anyone that uses the phrase "taxation is theft" also wants to privatize all of the things that are currently being paid for with taxes. This hypothetical person of yours arguing to abolish taxes without also abolishing public services does not actually exist

Is it fair if someone takes food from a church that is feeding people...and then they never give anything to the church?

How many people in countries that the US gives foreign aid to are paying US taxes?

Taxes are too high. Gov is too large. Inequality is too extreme.

If we can't reset and start from scratch (which we can not it seems)

Then to try to formulate a plan from where we are now to create a more fair and more enjoyable stable sytem is much harder than I thought without some form of tax. Other than to stream line gov and make it as efficient as possible and iron out as much corruption as possible and some other well meaning tweaks maybe a great deal more pay as you use services/care .... but to reduce tax to zero and juggle stability seemed as I mentioned quite tricky to me anyway.

Of course if you are born free with no contract signed ever then forced to pay tax is theft. However for that to be fair on those opting in you would somehow have to remain totally outside of that system and any benefits at all that it provided unless this was opt in payasyougo services/care only.

I do think the gradual decentralisation, trustless and transparent nature of this arena will make things better and you will get more for less tax in the end but it could take some time or could not happen like that at all.

That is where I had got too anyway I;m certain far smarter people will debunk these ideas with ease but at least i can then see where I was going wrong.