Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 4. (Read 1765 times)

Taxation is not a theft, because this is a kind of agreement to be paid between citizens and government,where citizens are to pay tax and obey the rules and regulations of the country so government can also support the citizens and protect them.
Taxation has always been a legal and legitimate way for government to collect public funds and revenue from citizens.
Theft is an illegal act or Crime for stealing and fraud,so paying of tax can never be a theft act.because there'isnt a legalized theft.

well your very own ⅓ of an acre of fresh water would require your care. since its yours.

this means you need a system to clean it and recirculate it so that it is potable

your four acres of land would need to grow all your food

and your 12 acres of ocean would be your source of fish to eat.

if you are sectioned off to your share many would die.  or form partnerships with adjacent  holders of property.

One of the reasons the place has yet to fall apart is division of labor and commingling of assets.

Am I anti communist  no but it only works with other parts of the world not being communist up to this date I am correct.

but capitalism existed long before communism was created and at times it thrived.

Since communism cant claim that yet or maybe never as maybe the world collapse happens if communism becomes the only method. or the world collapses before communism takes over.

best case is the world does not collapse. if tax free world wide communism does the trick works for me.

I cant see libertarians working world wide with no other system never has at least not in the recorded history of the world

This is gonna end well...

Tax the rich, so that useless eaters can keep doing their own thing.

Tax collection is of course very important to be able to run a government system for the benefit of everyone and we all know very well that the development carried out by the government certainly comes from the source of taxes paid by each community and the government uses these funds for the benefit of everyone and management. Good tax funds will of course be able to make society prosperous, but if the government system is dishonest in managing taxes, of course this will be very detrimental to the state and also the people who have paid taxes and if this continues, of course there will be damage everywhere. which is due to government errors in managing tax funds that have been paid by the community.

I'm not trying to approach this from any particular angle. I'm simply stating the facts. Taking someone's property without their consent constitutes theft. We can debate whether this is essential for a nation to function effectively, but it doesn't change the fundamental definition of the act.

Alright, then. I don't need to answer to anything below. We disagree on a very fundamental level. You clearly have another definition for the word "theft".

Tax is not a theft, the intention for the collection of tax is solely on on giving back to the society on terms of development and infrastructures, if the government are indeed being honest in the way of development to the community and are ready to work and give all it demands for them to help the people, every citizen will be happy and interested in paying thwur tax since they are conscious of what the government are capable of doing in return for them.

From the definition, a tax is a legal fee paid to the government by firms and individuals to fund activities for public goods, like the construction of roads. We are made to believe it's for our good, which may be true, although economic hardship is on the rise but we move regardless.

So, tax may be debated as theft when hard-working citizens have to pay ridiculous amounts for things that don't make sense, or when the tax fee is increased within a short period. However, since it's a legal fixed fee, one shouldn't bother too much about it being theft or not, but rather focus on making enough money not to notice the tax rate.

Lol...I can't stop laughing here cause I don't know which angle you are bringing this from and what it tends to justify. You have to know that a country's affair is a serious affair, it's not what social reasoning (moral is not the right word as used) can take care of.

"Tax is never a theft and never will it be regardless of how you may interpret it." I can only advise you to accept the tax of your country in good faith or protest so that the government may reduce it if it is too much. Anything that is in the constitution and the law of the land is binding and must be obliged to as Rights. Therefore, tax is the Right of the government, citizens have theirs too.

This is what is helping the country, otherwise, everyone will do as they like and there will not be a country fitting to live in because there will be broad daylight theft and anarchy since there is no means for the government to empower and operate security architectures in the country. That is one reason among countless reasons. Or do you want the government to work for the people while they pay nothing? People will not even be efficient about this if it is voluntary, so what will be the general state of the country?

I summarily conclude by saying that tax is good but must be justifiably used. There is no way the government will tax anyone if there are no purposes for it. Also, the government can't tax you if there is no law backing it. By virtue, I don't see this as "theft" in all ramifications but a "compulsion." Where there is a law, there must be obedience to it.

Well for me depends on the usage.

If taxation is ways to feed those corrupt officials then this is a method for those thief to stole money from people.

But different story goes if the money gotten from tax is used for countries development and other beneficial to people then provably it serves something good to people in return. A country need fundings to have good economy and they can only get that from implementing tax to any institutions or people who's capable to pay this.

Its somehow painful to our pocket for some amount to be taken out on our salary but this is part of our obligation as citizen since our country need that. The one look forward for it is it should be used for proper things which help our country to develop more or have some benefits for people to use.

Here's the thing. The concept of a tariff on everything should've worked on paper, IF we're living in an ideal world where the sole purpose and goal of legislator and tax collecting agencies is to collect such taxes to redistribute to the people of the country through projects, development, and other amazing stuff. Needless to say what we got is the less ideal version of this world and instead of politicians looking to serve us, we got politicians looking to serve THEMSELVES and their pockets instead.

Now it still would've worked well if even if these politicians took some of the money for their own illegally, we're able to cast votes on projects/developments we would like to see, and not just the government doing shit on its own without even telling us what they are doing with the money, nor letting us in on their plans, and the moment you try to peer into the keyhole you're jailed, you think that is a sign of a government we can trust putting our taxes on? NOPE.

So while taxes are good in concept, they haven't worked so well in practice that honestly, to me it's just way better if we abolish it completely.

by using a wider tax system in various sectors it can improve the welfare of the wider people with a good tax system increasing development in a country but in fact it is difficult to implement, because they do not channel the tax revenues because they commit a lot of corruption by stealing tax proceeds for themselves and that is a mistake that must be eradicated properly.

The taxes are supposed to be used for the benefit of the public, it is supposed to be to provide utilities for the people for things they lack but the government will use force and make sure people are paying their tax. Government can survive with tax because the government always find a way making money. Because the government will need money to run things. If not that people are forced i don't think people will pay. Is not as if paying tax is not good but the government is not using if for what they are supposed to be using it for,  people don't longer have faith in the government anymore just because of corruption, and it is getting worse everyday. I don't think things will get better now.



Tax is important and everyone is under the obligation that they must pay there tax. But they are not using it for its purpose and I think that is what is bothering people. Of they are transparent and if people are seen what the money is used for am sure nobody will complain about paying tax and every country pays more tax than one another. And people that works at revenue offices are always stealing. You will always see them look expensive,  all that money is gotten from stealing because all civil servant are average people but they still look expensive. And politicians are the greatest liar they will always want to convince people that what they are doing is right and justify that they are not thieves which they are.

I don't think taxation is theft, they (the government) have had a long discussion about it, where they get the taxes from and what the tax money is used for, I guess it's not just an overnight chat. Everyone has a different scale of income, and the government has a scale of tax payment calculation. The government builds roads, hospitals, schools, pays officials, and many other things using the tax money we pay, and we use those facilities. But if they start looking into everyone's crypto wallet, I think it's a very strange thing. they should only ask for tax payments from the cryptocurenncy company ?. not from everyone who has a crypto wallet itself.

Sometimes I wonder, when we do online work, why do we have to pay taxes?,
when we have paid taxes for the purchase of the tools we use to work, we pay for the internet and there are taxes for the internet we use, we pay for electricity and gas and there are taxes for that, we use a vehicle, and there are taxes for the vehicle itself, Even when we shop at the store, we pay tax on the items we buy, Shouldn't they just tax the company?

No, taxation is not theft. If done properly it is an almost perfect way for a society to share essential costs and help support the burden of the least fortunate. It should be spent on public services, which needs to be regularly assessed for cost effectiveness, but should give a country access to greater economies of scale when supplying things to the whole population. For example a nationwide healthcare system is likely to provide much better outcomes (when it has the proper framework and institutions in place) that many separate and purely profit driven companies - at least for the average recipient of these medical services. Living in a wild west means you are less likely to trust each other and end up building walls instead of bridges between neighbors.

Paying taxes is an obligation for all of us, every job has something called exposure, and the community itself obeys tax obligations, but after the rampant theft of state tax money from the proceeds, people struggle to pay taxes but the money is misused by irresponsible individuals. answer, people today are not negligent about taxes, but they are lazy because taxes from small people are misused instead of for infrastructure development but instead they enrich themselves, many tax office officials steal tax money from the people, when will this country progress if the officials still consuming people's money that is not their right, this is what causes the emergence of "is taxation theft".

To answer the question in the subject, "Is taxation theft?" - when you put it like that, yes technically it is.

But, just because it's defined as that, doesn't mean it's bad or good. From my perspective looking at tax in a "good or bad" or "white or black" approach, is just too much of an oversimplification and it's neither. To be boring, it's both.

Taxation is necessary, as Governments acting as central bodies need money to create order and peace. Without Governments, there would be a lot more instability and chaos. To employ people to work in Government, tax is required to pay for their wages, but more importantly so that the remaining surplus can be used to allocate to the society to make it better. Improve road safety, subsidized transport options, and where possible free healthcare.

I think the question that really needs to be asked is: "At what point does taxation become theft?"

In most countries, income taxation is not a flat % rate, regardless of how much you earn. It scales, as you earn more, you pay more tax. This to me is just insanity. Why should someone who works harder, is more productive, and delivers more outcomes to benefit society, be taxed more? It slightly disinsitives actually doing a good job? And the income tax rate can be 50%+ in some cases? I really don't agree with this. If there was just a flat 20-25% tax regardless of how much you earned, I would be happy with this.

The other issues with tax, is that Governments will apply it to anything they see fit.

Buying a car? You must pay registration tax.
Buying a house? You must pay land tax.
Getting a mortgage? You must pay tax.
Importing items internationally? You must pay tax.
Buying gas? You must pay import tax.
Buying cigarettes or alcohol? You must pay import tax.

All of the indirect taxes, is what really kills it for me.

At that point, it's too much.

This could be debated for a thousand pages and still no consensus would be reached--and the issue of taxation has been debated since the beginning, centuries ago, so I'm not expecting much to come of this thread.

There's definitely an argument to be made that taxes are necessary to keep a country going, and I'd agree with that.  But at some point (where that point is, I've no idea) it becomes too much and citizens are taxed way too much.  IMO somewhere along the line the US reached that point and people are being taxed to death, taxed to the point where there's no way for wealth to be handed down through generations.  

And the kicker is that the US's monetary policies have left it with debt that's never going to get repaid, and I mean never ever in a million years.  The money printer just keeps a-goin' brrrrrrr....


A novel or a really long nonfiction book, and I'm pretty sure at least a few of them have already been written.

No matter the financial status of any individual, it is advisable to pay taxes even though the government may not make judicious use of those taxes being paid by residents of a country. Taxes generate revenues for government to maintain and build infrastructure and there is no way the government can disregard making sure that those dividends of democracy is not visible for all to see because if people pay taxes and the government doesn't want to use those taxes for their purpose then the citizens can do a peaceful protest to question the government why the taxes they paid are not allocated to what they are being paid for. Every civil workers is expected to pay taxes and it has become mandatory especially for civil workers because as soon as their salaries are paid it will be automatically deducted then as for people that have self made jobs, they can pay through direct assessment by going to the board of internal revenue to make payments.
It is important for every one in a country to pay taxes irrespective of the amount of salary or income you earn as this a primary payment needed to generate revenues in building infrastructures and public services.
We know that most government have become so corrupt such that they divert some of these revenues generated from taxation but it should not discourage anyone from paying taxes.

When the taxes that have been paid by the community cannot be used for the benefit of the people, of course the people cannot get the rights they have paid to the government and if the government continues to do this, of course this will be very detrimental to the people who have paid taxes and for some people who They choose not to pay taxes, of course they have their own reasons, it could be that the government doesn't manage these funds well so there are some people who choose not to pay taxes, but those who choose not to pay taxes, of course, will have difficulty accessing government services, which requires them to show proof of having paid taxes. pay taxes, so it is very impossible for poor people to be able to avoid taxes, but those who have power will certainly be able to avoid taxes.

To be honest, one could write a novel about whether the taxation is theft or not. My short answer would be that in a country where government cares about their citizens, does good for them, funds what's strategically important, takes care of housing, helps people to get a high quality education, helps them to start a business, helps them to expand, gives them low % credits and so on, then taxation is not a theft but does such a country exist? No. There are the good ones but not such ones.
In reality, taxation is theft but it's like, I steal it from you but I return some % to you back for improving your quality of life. Let's take Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc... These countries offer high quality of life, when you live there, you can feel that government cares about you and your tax is not wasted but at the same time, it's not like everything is fairly done. Those who are in charge, are still corrupts and the tax that they collected from you, they use it for their own benefit, to buy penthouse, expensive cars, do some shady business deals and so on.
Taxation will always be the theft but it depends on the country. In some countries, you'll pay it because it's not absolutely stolen from you but in some other countries, taxation is totally a theft and brings back no benefit like health insurance, social welfare, unemployment insurance, etc.