Well, yeah, I would agree that taxation is theft based on the fact that it is money or property that is taken out of an individual's assets, capital, or property without being appropriately approved by the individual (without the consent of the owner). Despite the fact the fact that it could be seen as theft because of how it is carried out, I think it is a justifiable theft due to the good it is used for. If the tax that is collected is put to good use by the government, such as to develop the country, take care of social amenities, and fix up infrastructures, then every citizen will still enjoy the good work of their tax.
Taxation didn't start today, according to studies. I have known that taxation started 6 thousand years B.C., and the "income tax" was first introduced in 1799 in Great Britain, while income tax was also introduced in my country around 1904. I think it's absolutely pointless to argue whether taxation is theft or not. After the argument, what can you do? Force the government to change the pattern of tax collection, or what?
Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 8. (Read 2224 times)
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The government only informs each citizen about taxpayers, they never directly ask each individual to pay taxes. The regulations implemented by the government seem cruel because they take other people's property without that person's consent, but that's how they work, whenever they have the opportunity they will cut it automatically without having to ask permission first. This cannot be called theft, because it is legalized in law, every good citizen must always obey every rule issued by the government, for example crypto taxation, if the government does not facilitate and supervise centralized exchanges, then you will have difficulty finding a place to convert Bitcoin into Dollar. The government will manage these taxes to build infrastructure and all public facilities. Here there is a mutually beneficial relationship, without realizing it, you will also enjoy all the facilities provided by the state from the tax money they take without your knowledge.
Tax is the confiscation of someone's property rights which is disguised as "legitimate". If we refer to bitcoiner principles, of course this is a contradictory ethic, but we also cannot completely discredit the tax system as justified theft. This means who and what was the first to carry it out. Of course, taxes have been around for a long time, the aim of which is to provide income for a country, community or group of people to survive by ensuring security as part of a group, society or citizens to run a structured government.
This one was an easy one for me, of course it is not theft, of course it is justified. The problem with the poll is that the topic name asks something else whereas the poll something else, so the answers could be mixed here I am afraid. I think the best thing to do right now would be just realizing that you are not going to end up with anything better, it is going to cost you a lot if you do not know what you are doing.
The best thing to do would be just realizing it is going to be tough, and if you know what you are doing, then you should be fine. Taxed or not, governments need that money to continue and if you do not want to pay taxes, you won't have a government and that is going to be the hardest part of it all.
The best thing to do would be just realizing it is going to be tough, and if you know what you are doing, then you should be fine. Taxed or not, governments need that money to continue and if you do not want to pay taxes, you won't have a government and that is going to be the hardest part of it all.
Tax is not a theft if your government is giving you good standard of life like health, education, infrastructure etc. But it's a theft if government is collecting it so that only people in power can enjoy good life. To me countries like USA and EU are justified in imposing high taxes since they are getting good facilities to there citizens in return.
If taxes will be used to develop the country, that will not a theft but that will be the money that every citizen pay to their country. Paying the taxes is an obligation from their citizen because the government will build many infrastructure and facilities for their citizen. If the government don't use the taxes for corruption, their country will develop and grow better than before.
The amount of tax can tempts officials to use that taxes for a wrong thing such as corruption so the development of the country can works as its plan. That will must be prevents by the government so they must guard the taxes from the corrupt officials and use it for their country. Crypto now has been taxed but the amount is different from one country to another.
We can only obey the rules from the government and if they asked us to pay the taxes, we should do that because the government can do anything for their citizen that is not follow their rules. We can only hopes that all taxes can be used with properly to develop our country.
The amount of tax can tempts officials to use that taxes for a wrong thing such as corruption so the development of the country can works as its plan. That will must be prevents by the government so they must guard the taxes from the corrupt officials and use it for their country. Crypto now has been taxed but the amount is different from one country to another.
We can only obey the rules from the government and if they asked us to pay the taxes, we should do that because the government can do anything for their citizen that is not follow their rules. We can only hopes that all taxes can be used with properly to develop our country.
This one was an easy one for me, of course it is not theft, of course it is justified. The problem with the poll is that the topic name asks something else whereas the poll something else, so the answers could be mixed here I am afraid. I think the best thing to do right now would be just realizing that you are not going to end up with anything better, it is going to cost you a lot if you do not know what you are doing.
The best thing to do would be just realizing it is going to be tough, and if you know what you are doing, then you should be fine. Taxed or not, governments need that money to continue and if you do not want to pay taxes, you won't have a government and that is going to be the hardest part of it all.
The best thing to do would be just realizing it is going to be tough, and if you know what you are doing, then you should be fine. Taxed or not, governments need that money to continue and if you do not want to pay taxes, you won't have a government and that is going to be the hardest part of it all.
but even before those events of officiating it nationally in countries, people were taxed based on their income. even the story of robinhood shows how people living in the realms of the king were taxed. and had tax collectors, so taxation was a known thing even centuries ago
best quote i ever heard:
if empires were run by emperors
if kingdoms were run by kings
what are modern countries run by
It's interesting, people forget our collective history as humans. best quote i ever heard:
if empires were run by emperors
if kingdoms were run by kings
what are modern countries run by
Before capitalism we had feudalism which arguably was a system with a much more stringent and oppressive tax system.
You would work just to survive. If you were born in a poor family getting an education or owning any business was a distant dream. You would work on a surf's field only to be able to keep some crops for you to survive.
ironically enough the work hours then were less than the ones under capitalism in the industrial revolution but still the outcomes were worse.
Capitalism did have some improvements in terms of freedom. But as a system even after two or three centuries being tried as industrial capitalism m, it had failed to address so many basic issues. Judging by how undemocratic the process of how our taxes are being handled is still, it seems as though the system never wants to fix itself unless people change it from the bottom up.
Morals talking time.
Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")
(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)
The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".
There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.
My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.
I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.
Taxation is a strategies that is put in place by the authority or government of a nation in order to raise fund that will enable them to have a smooth running of the government because no government can survive with fund.Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")
(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)
The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".
There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.
My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.
I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.
Considering the factors that is involve in taxation I can say that taxation is theft when the government or those in authority lack integrity or fail to use the revenue they get through tax to provide the need of the people, in otherwise I can also say that taxation is not theft in the sense that the revenue that is gotten through tax is use the way it is meant to be use
Taxation is one of the largest failures of capitalism socialism.
FTFYIncome tax and sales tax/VAT didn't exist 100+ years ago. Look it up.
Quote from: UKtaxhistory
Income tax was first implemented in Great Britain by William Pitt the Younger in his budget of December 1798 to pay for weapons and equipment in preparation for the Napoleonic Wars.
Quote from: USAaxhistory
Income Tax Rates, Then and Now
Tax rates tend to change—often, but not always, rising. When the federal income tax was implemented to help finance World War I in 1913, for example, the marginal tax rate was 1% on income of $0 to $20,000, 2% on income of $20,000 to $50,000, 3% on income of $50,000 to $75,000, 4% on income of $75,000 to $100,000, 5% on income of $100,000 to $250,000, 6% on income of $250,000 to $500,000, and 7% on income of $500,000 and up
Tax rates tend to change—often, but not always, rising. When the federal income tax was implemented to help finance World War I in 1913, for example, the marginal tax rate was 1% on income of $0 to $20,000, 2% on income of $20,000 to $50,000, 3% on income of $50,000 to $75,000, 4% on income of $75,000 to $100,000, 5% on income of $100,000 to $250,000, 6% on income of $250,000 to $500,000, and 7% on income of $500,000 and up
but even before those events of officiating it nationally in countries, people were taxed based on their income. even the story of robinhood shows how people living in the realms of the king were taxed. and had tax collectors, so taxation was a known thing even centuries ago
best quote i ever heard:
if empires were run by emperors
if kingdoms were run by kings
what are modern countries run by
Maybe a better question would be: do higher taxes make your country better? Instead of taxing as much as they can, it should be optimized for most value for money.
It becomes a theft since they tax everything you buy. You already paid tax when you get your salary and then every time you buy something, you also get taxed on every item. The government intentionally wants people to be poor as they spend tax money on something that the people are not benefiting from.
But the government is not helping the inflation as well. There comes a time when people will not be paying anymore because they know the rich people evade tax while the poor can't.
i'm not saying it's theft, but at some points it's like theft. for example, i need to pay taxes for housing, which i don't even feel the benefit of since i don't qualify for it. and then, i need to pay taxes on income from cryptocurrency (it's automatically deducted when converting to local currency) which the government doesn't give me any protection if the platform goes bankrupt. how is this not theft?
others may say that the representatives in the legislative body have the right to issue such regulations since the people elected them, but from the beginning of my birth until now i have never voted for those legislators, so i don't feel that they "represent me" and issue these stupid tax regulations.
but don't get me wrong, i don't mind paying taxes as long as it has benefits for me directly, but when i don't receive any benefits from it and instead i am forced to pay just because a regulation states it, i think it's theft.
others may say that the representatives in the legislative body have the right to issue such regulations since the people elected them, but from the beginning of my birth until now i have never voted for those legislators, so i don't feel that they "represent me" and issue these stupid tax regulations.
but don't get me wrong, i don't mind paying taxes as long as it has benefits for me directly, but when i don't receive any benefits from it and instead i am forced to pay just because a regulation states it, i think it's theft.
If a thief stole your property and donated it to charity or funded public infrastructure, wouldn't you still call it theft?
That's called Robin Hood.It means they stopped using any services the government could provide. So the government couldn't give a reason to force them paying abusive taxes anymore.
It's theft. Today everything is taxed, in a way we pay for breathing through some taxes. Maybe it would all be fine if all that money were used more wisely and if it contributed to the progress of the whole society and all institutions. But that does not happen, at least in my country, there are many examples of how large sums of money are extracted from the state through various projects.
Some taxes have to exist, that's for sure... and we should all pay them to make everyone better off, and future generations too. But it seems to me that in many countries in this world, the situation is similar to my country. The system has to change, I think it has to be much more transparent. What is happening now is a big scheme for money laundering, all politicians and those close to them are getting enormously rich at the expense of citizens.
Some taxes have to exist, that's for sure... and we should all pay them to make everyone better off, and future generations too. But it seems to me that in many countries in this world, the situation is similar to my country. The system has to change, I think it has to be much more transparent. What is happening now is a big scheme for money laundering, all politicians and those close to them are getting enormously rich at the expense of citizens.
But no, you're just a cog in the machine and you don't have time to do research about how a proper diet can prevent tons of diseases (heart attacks, obesity, diabetes etc). Am I right?
"Prevention is better than the cure". Exercising is game changer as well when you make it priority, but I'm finding it difficult to keep up with a diet. What kind of diet would you recommend? (Any link appreciated)Carnivore/keto is probably the best for most people and it also seems to be popular among Bitcoiners.
Meat along with animal fat (the best is from ruminants, chicken/pork not so much), liver (it's tastier if you soak/marinate it in milk for some hours), no carbs (especially wheat/sugar), no seed oils.
I started reading Carnivore Aurelius (plenty of articles) back in 2017, long before the COVID craziness and it's probably the best investment I've made (along with Bitcoin). It paid off multiple times.
Most people argue about insulin price (if it should be regulated or not, how much should it cost), while a healthy organism will never need insulin injections (that's why I said it's best to take good care of yourself and avoid Big Pharma if possible).
Even diabetic patients can reverse diabetes with PKD (Paleo Keto Diet).
But if you were Big Pharma, would you want people to stop buying your product (insulin)?
It's akin to fiat/central banks vs BTC, but for food/health.
TL;DR: I want people to be healthy, but they need to work for it.
They should never expect the state or corporations to hand it to them on a silver plate, because it's just not going to happen (for obvious reasons).
I don't believe taxation is theft. When used for public welfare, it benefits everyone.
If I take half of your income without your permission, I can use it to benefit everyone (maybe even give you a small portion of it to feel better), but it is still theft nonetheless. Why does it stop being theft when you get the illusion to choose which one takes your income?I'm talking about public goods like national security(your country having and army and intelligence), law enforcement(police and court system), etc. Infrastructure projects like roads and streets can be partially funded with a Toll system and/or vignettes, but that's more like an exception to the rule.
I agree that these are the kind of services that cannot survive in a completely free market. Especially, national security. I can't even imagine what happens in the scenario that another nation attacks a free market reliant nation. Everyone hates when the government is taking money from them, but what would your country look like, if there aren't any roads and highways and there's no army, police and courts, no schools and hospitals? It would look like total chaos.
Have you been into public schools and hospitals? It's a chaos already. In my country, if you don't have the money to go on a private hospital and something crucial occurs to you, you're cooked. But no, you're just a cog in the machine and you don't have time to do research about how a proper diet can prevent tons of diseases (heart attacks, obesity, diabetes etc). Am I right?
"Prevention is better than the cure". Exercising is game changer as well when you make it priority, but I'm finding it difficult to keep up with a diet. What kind of diet would you recommend? (Any link appreciated)I'm not saying that I'm rich, just less poor-- paying taxes no longer felt like a voluntary action. Every time I pay my taxes, it feels like getting my testicles electrocuted.
Heh, when you start paying, it stops being voluntary action, doesn't it? We're live in a country who have laws and regulations, how you can say it's theft?
Like that: It's theft. If a law tells you that anyone who feels as a woman is a woman, then it doesn't mean that a man who feels like a woman is a woman. The state pays that lawyer from the taxes they collect… that’s the most basic and realistic example that explains why we still need to pay taxes probably
Actually, prison is the most basic and realistic example! 
Good point.
I can’t really decide. Part of me says “fuck all taxes” but then It is impossible to have an infrastructure, healthcare, security, education etc if the gov don’t collect taxes. There are some stuff which the private sector can’t really do well. The government has to offer an alternative at least and they can only do that if they collect taxes.
No tax means no government and I hate governments but somehow we still need them.
For some reason I can’t say “the private sector should handle everything and governments shouldn’t be offering any services”
Post services
Education
Firefighters
Healthcare
Security (police/army)
Juridical Service
Infrastructure (water, electricity, roads…)
Private companies already offer these services but they can be costly. Especially the healthcare and lawyers.
What if you are in legal trouble and you don’t have money? The state has to provide you a lawyer. They can’t say “go to prison you poor fool”
The state pays that lawyer from the taxes they collect… that’s the most basic and realistic example that explains why we still need to pay taxes probably
Lawyers/courts will be replaced by AI. ChatGPT can memorize all available laws in a few minutes, while a lawyer has to study for many years.No tax means no government and I hate governments but somehow we still need them.
For some reason I can’t say “the private sector should handle everything and governments shouldn’t be offering any services”
Post services
Education
Firefighters
Healthcare
Security (police/army)
Juridical Service
Infrastructure (water, electricity, roads…)
Private companies already offer these services but they can be costly. Especially the healthcare and lawyers.
What if you are in legal trouble and you don’t have money? The state has to provide you a lawyer. They can’t say “go to prison you poor fool”
The state pays that lawyer from the taxes they collect… that’s the most basic and realistic example that explains why we still need to pay taxes probably
Post services can be offered 2 times cheaper by private companies (smart lockers) compared to state services.
Education is shifting towards e-learning and AI soon enough.
Healthcare will be automated with much greater efficiency.
I can continue, but you probably get the drift.
Even the police won't exist in the future, because they'll have cameras and drones everywhere (quite dystopic, but that's for another discussion).
I can’t really decide. Part of me says “fuck all taxes” but then It is impossible to have an infrastructure, healthcare, security, education etc if the gov don’t collect taxes. There are some stuff which the private sector can’t really do well. The government has to offer an alternative at least and they can only do that if they collect taxes.
No tax means no government and I hate governments but somehow we still need them.
For some reason I can’t say “the private sector should handle everything and governments shouldn’t be offering any services”
Post services
Education
Firefighters
Healthcare
Security (police/army)
Juridical Service
Infrastructure (water, electricity, roads…)
Private companies already offer these services but they can be costly. Especially the healthcare and lawyers.
What if you are in legal trouble and you don’t have money? The state has to provide you a lawyer. They can’t say “go to prison you poor fool”
The state pays that lawyer from the taxes they collect… that’s the most basic and realistic example that explains why we still need to pay taxes probably
No tax means no government and I hate governments but somehow we still need them.
For some reason I can’t say “the private sector should handle everything and governments shouldn’t be offering any services”
Post services
Education
Firefighters
Healthcare
Security (police/army)
Juridical Service
Infrastructure (water, electricity, roads…)
Private companies already offer these services but they can be costly. Especially the healthcare and lawyers.
What if you are in legal trouble and you don’t have money? The state has to provide you a lawyer. They can’t say “go to prison you poor fool”
The state pays that lawyer from the taxes they collect… that’s the most basic and realistic example that explains why we still need to pay taxes probably
Kind of. The highest levels of welfare and prosperity have been achieved with a mixture of free enterprise and trade and state intervention. What happens is that the supporters of one or the other always pull for their side. Personally, between having more freedom and having more state, I prefer the former, but I would not call minimum taxes theft. When they keep growing and growing, to be used mostly for political spending, they are theft, in my opinion.
We're live in a country who have laws and regulations, how you can say it's theft? 
We shouldn't forget with patriots who defend our country and president who work for the country, we're gifted generation, we don't have to fight with other people just to defend our country.
If you think taxation is a theft, why didn't you choose to move to tax heaven country, create your own country or live in no man's land?
We shouldn't forget with patriots who defend our country and president who work for the country, we're gifted generation, we don't have to fight with other people just to defend our country.
If you think taxation is a theft, why didn't you choose to move to tax heaven country, create your own country or live in no man's land?
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