Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 5. (Read 1765 times)

 Since everyone pays taxes, the only reason I see people complaining is over how the government spends their money. Taxes are meant to be used for the benefit of the people, but instead the government uses the money for its own benefit.Since everyone pays taxes, the only reason I see people complaining is over how the government spends their money. Taxes are meant to be used for the benefit of the people, but instead the government uses the money for its own benefit. One of the reasons why people refuse to pay taxes is because the government wants them to, but they are no longer taking the necessary action. Instead, they want individuals to follow the tax policy. Theft is a very big issue in government. People are actually aware of their rights to pay their tax, the thing is that we like it or not the government will continue to collect tax because it is still very important. We just endure till when everyone is ready to correct the government.

Care to explain why?

I think that the answer is simple. Taxation is theft in a corrupt country but it's a necessary evil in a least-corrupt country. We need a military, we need police, we need ambulances, we need lights in the street, there are many things that we need and these things need to be on a government level. The country is a family and the government is the head of the family. In a big family, not every family member is smart or reasonable. We need a smart head of the family. The head of the family collects the budget from the family members and takes the responsibility of taking care of things inside the family, including the management of necessary services that can't act on capitalism and also takes decisions in extreme cases. It's only a theft when the head of the family is egoist and wants all the money for himself and doesn't care about the family members.

I have to agree 100%

In order to justify libertarians you need to make the following statement change.

"if you divide the planet earth fresh water land and oceans in equal shares  

we would get 1/3 of an acre of fresh water
4 acres of land
12 acres of ocean"

and the place won't work that way.

So we

1)either kill off 95 maybe 98 percent of the people.
Thus allowing the remaining ones to live free.
2)make space travel work easy peasy finding tons of resources and space which allow the current 8 billion of us to live free.
3) use taxes and caste system to keep the status quo.

Right now we do number 3

number 1 is  a pretty fucking terrible choice. no good at all

number 2 seems impossible at the moment.


So taxes are not criminal due to the three choices above.

taxes still seem to be a necessary evil. not a criminal evil.

number 1 which actually could work and end taxes would be criminal

and number 2 still seems to be beyond us.


I like libertarian thought but we simply do not have the room or resources for a lot of them on this planet.

Tax is not a theft if it is done via legal means. And also, if the tax is being utilized for the benefit of its people. Now, if the tax is going to the pockets of these politicians, that's clearly theft. Implementation of tax is crucial for the government to pursue their projects such as improvement of their transportation, healthcare and social welfare programs, economic developments, national defense and a lot more. So for me, this is important for any government. It will only vary how each government is utilizing their taxes to alleviate their economic status.

What are the taxes being used for that should be our main concern and can the government survive without taxes, although we're being forced to pay our taxes but if it isn't mandatory task, would people be doing it willingly. Taxation is an avenue for the government to generate revenue to be used to pay for running the country. Are tax payers money being used for the good for her country or are they being misuse. For a country that has a working system that also has an accountable government, I won't see why they should be complaining about taxation when the outcome of the taxation are being seen all around.

Taxation isn't stealing for a civilized country that the governments are using the tax payers money in an accountable manner but in a corrupt country, taxation is stealing. The purpose of taxing has already been outlined by the governments so it only become stealing when they aren't using the taxes for the things they claimed it will be used for.

Everyone is required to pay the tax, as long as you are a citizen of that certain country and you benefit all those projects that were gained through taxes. So it's not an act of theft, but if those taxes go straight to the account of the government officials, well no doubt that is an extreme theft.

However, the thing is it's rare if those people are not aware that they are obliged to pay their tax and that it will be an instant deduction from their salary, as long as they are earning, then there's no excuse from paying taxes. Now, talking about heavy taxation, I believe that is also another story to tell.

Tax, is it extortion wrapped up in policies and regulations that must be obeyed and carried out by citizens? That is. It was a forced taking. Yes, perhaps for some things, taxes are necessary for the country's economic development. Because tax has always been the main source of state income. And it is used for various progress of the country (supposedly).

However, this becomes bad because as time goes by the state imposes more and more taxes on its citizens, not only on certain things but also other things that start to be taxed again and again. So this increasingly burdens the citizens of the country. Not to mention, I agree and maybe this happens a lot in various countries, that money from taxes is corrupted for personal interests. Shit. Isn't that also theft? but it was done by people in uniform and education, right? then wrapped in beautiful words that make the citizens have a dilemma and no longer fixate on it.

Taxes are associated with corruption, I'm sure many people have experienced this in a country. But apart from all that, is it fair that taxes are getting higher and higher, and more and more things are subject to taxes?

Oh yes, that has happened in my country. IN which countries are starting to legalize crypto. And at that time I was thinking that at most someday I would be subject to taxes. And it's true, taxes are really charged every time we make transactions on local exchanges. And it was immediately deducted automatically when making the transaction.

More info about crypto taxes in my country:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/indonesia-crypto-tax-bappebti-report
https://www.bepartners.co.id/news/indonesia-officially-imposes-tax-on-crypto-asset-transaction

I have never imagined taxation as a form of theft but after reading the op, I am beginning to see some sense in it (even though i am not completely in agreement). I have always seen taxation as an instrument the government uses to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor by taking high amounts from high income earners and use it to provide amenities and social facilities both the high and low income earners would benefit from. This is what taxation is ordinarily meant for, except for cases where fraudulent leaders steal from the people for personal use.

Now, if the government collects from these people and fails to give to the people what they truly deserve as tax payers then, taxation should be seen as stealing. Why should the people enrich the government from their own sweat and still be suffering? Taxation is only justifiable if the government is keeping to their side of the bargain.

That's an interesting point.
So, I'm sure you know there's state and federal tax.
It's state taxation that pays for all these services. What if you did not have to pay federal at all and allowed states to deal with everything.
IMO both the state and the people would be happy. What you'd cut is the war industrial complex that you (arguably) don't even need.
As I see it, that could be the alternative.

Even if you don't want to pay your taxes still there is no way to follow it because indirect taxes are imposed on almost everything we spend so if we have to access a product or service then you have to pay the necessary tax. Although we consider it theft we need collective effort from the leaders as well as the citizens to keep the revenue generation on par without hurting the people for that they need to find the right ways and make policies according to that and it will take long time to change even if we start making the changes as of today.

Yeah before there can be an effective change in the system then there must be a viable replacement proposal, with the proposal will may have a change but without it I don't think it will be possible, however to honest what you said is correct "replacing current system is a crazy one itself by the people in power". But I still believe a step should be taken.

Yeah the fixed money is also one reason I really love Bitcoin and that's why I have chosen to invest in it, and that's also one reasons why Bitcoin is so valuable in the world, no government can manipulate it or increase or decrease the number of Bitcoin to it favour.
Bitcoin stand's without any interference and that why is always considered the best investment ever, no war or political war can affect us hold Bitcoin like the way it will affect those that has there savings in Banks.

Well, yes, but as you correctly mention, if there is no viable replacement proposed, then nothing will change. And in practice, just the idea of replacing the current system is a crazy one itself by the people in power.

The thing I like about Bitcoin is that it has fixed money. It is no longer required to entrust the elite with issuing and managing money responsibly. It's a solution that works in practice since the first day. And the best part: it required no reorganization of society as we know it. I wish there was a similar solution (decentralized, game-theory reliant mechanism), but for beyond money.

Some people think taxation is necessary for the functioning of a society & the provision of public services. They see it as a fair way to distribute the costs of these services among the population. Others think taxation infringes upon individual property rights & is a form of theft. I suppose the answer to this question depends on your beliefs about the role of government & the balance between individual rights & collective responsibilities.

If we are not qualify for it, then it's better for us to get excluded from it because it's only an added expense to us in the form of paying a tax. When it comes to cryptocurrency taxes, I'm not against with it because we are benefiting with it and for it to be automatically deducted is actually much better because it is hassle free than manually remitting it, unless only if you are planning of not paying it.

Well, that was already wrong and we can get into jail with that. Does the platform that you use already got bankrupt before, for you to say that governments don't give a protection? But most of the times, it is the obligation of the platform that we are using.

If you're from my country, I'd side with the taxation is theft side because I only see nothing but corruption in the government and the taxes that's supposed to help the public doesn't get the help that they needed and so we end up with this charade of politicians fighting over the position because they don't like the idea of leaving the seat of power because the money and influence is so strong but I digress, I believe that taxation is theft, how come the government has a cut on the money that I've worked hard to earn and when I don't pay it, I'm the one in the wrong? I get that the tax will fund the public projects but with the corruption, I'd rather keep it to myself and save myself and my family first.

There is probably no country in the world that does not collect taxes from its subjects and from all the establishments that are under government regulation. Because if there is no tax to be collected by a government, there will not be any development  in their country.

It is fine for us to take tax as long as it will not be a burden or pain to consumers or law-abiding citizens, and we can also see that the taxes that the government takes from the people under their jurisdiction are being used correctly.

if you were to remove tax completely, all public services would stop. meaning no cops, no fire department, no state education, no department for vehicle registration, no birth/death/marriage registration department, no driving licence/passport department, no libraries, etc etc
majority of people dont want basic public services to stop.. so people, even if less than norm average amounts would still vote.

if there was a lack of majority vote, then all that happens is re-elections where candidates then pledge better plans that can win them votes

taxes can be reformed. every election has leaders pledging to adjust/lower/change taxes. aswell as pledge plans for how those taxes are spent, its just people need to vote for the pledges that benefit them

to effectuate change in the past, it has been done via petitions. media tries to say its protests but thats just a visual display misdirection that doesnt change things.. where by the petitions does effectuate change.
for instance many people think the historic change of "votes for women" a century+ ago was due to protests on the streets, but actual change occurred behind the scenes due to the petitions submitted during the same time

for instance many people think the historic change of "tea tax" a century+ ago was due to protests on the boston harbour, but actual change occurred behind the scenes due to the petitions submitted during the same time

if people did petition their representatives that the people wont vote for them unless they pledge to change X,y,z. representatives would then pledge to change x,y,z simply to win votes vs their opposing candidate competitor.
the issue is people dont really know that this is the most effective process, as they are instead told via media that other non effective ways are the thing people should do. which results in things not changing effectively

Nobody answered the question I asked in first page: what's the alternative or replacement?
And that is why it won't work. People can't just remove stuff, there has to first be an alternative for it. For example we can't just remove PayPal, we first have to create an alternative like Bitcoin and then replace it with that alternative. And the replacement (for PayPal or for income tax gap in the budget) can only be used as a replacement if it is a viable option.

What's the replacement for the budget gap removing income (or other) tax would create in government budget?
Now that raises more and more questions, like why is the government spending this much money, a lot of which is wasted? It's just a rabbit hole that keeps getting deeper and deeper and eventually we figure out that the economy is flawed itself. That needs to be fundamentally changed.