jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf? - page 11.

Technomage

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Quote from: Polvos on November 30, 2012, 05:31:05 PM

Someone stated smartly in THE Bitcoin Foundation thread that we need to separate de Bitcoin project from the USA.

Now we have USA devs, working in a Washington based foundation and forums with USA moderators fearing USA laws censoring worldwide users.

Fuck, I need a hamburguer now Angry

I have to say that I'm starting to agree with this. If the people in the US are too afraid of the US government, we have a problem. I'm not saying they shouldn't be afraid. Maybe they do need to be afraid. What I'm saying is that maybe we need to decentralize a little more. Having so many "major players" of Bitcoin in the US is not necessarily a very good thing.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: Rudd-O on November 30, 2012, 05:22:19 PM

Quote from: casascius on November 30, 2012, 04:22:15 PM

Quote from: chrisrico on November 30, 2012, 04:18:18 PM

This looks more like monopoly money than federal reserve notes to me.

Agreed on the colored notes, but definitely not on the coins.

The coins look like U.S. government money as much as your coins do, Casascius.

Let's hope you don't become the next von NotHaus. Are you ready to spend some time in the big house?

Thats what I was thuinking. Physical bitcoins are more analogous to liberty dollars...

Polvos

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Someone stated smartly in THE Bitcoin Foundation thread that we need to separate the Bitcoin project from the USA.

Now we have USA devs, working in a Washington based foundation and forums with USA moderators fearing USA laws censoring worldwide users.

Fuck, I need a hamburguer now Angry

ShadowOfHarbringer

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After reading this discussion, my conclusion is that it totally brings down to one thing: FEAR.

It is also clear that after this topic and "Iranians start to use Bitcoin" article on Buisnessweek, there is no stopping Iranians from using Bitcoin, and hundereds of pages of posts will only make it worse by spreading the topic further into the Interwebz.

So those of you (including some devs) who are afraid of US government should leave the boat now, while the matter has not become "very hot" yet, and return later (or not) under anonymous identities using networks such as TOR, I2P and Freenet. And it is highly probable that this will become hot.

Rudd-O

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Quote from: casascius on November 30, 2012, 04:22:15 PM

Quote from: chrisrico on November 30, 2012, 04:18:18 PM

This looks more like monopoly money than federal reserve notes to me.

Agreed on the colored notes, but definitely not on the coins.

The coins look like U.S. government money as much as your coins do, Casascius.

Let's hope you don't become the next von NotHaus. Are you ready to spend some time in the big house?

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: Technomage on November 30, 2012, 12:16:17 PM

What options do we have when governments attack the dev team? The fact that someone in the team is afraid is a genuine problem.

Yep, this might be a problem.

If the core devs weren't already known, i would suggest them going the I2P-way. Some of I2P anonymous network devs are known only under psudonyms and are hiding behind the network they created. We could have the same kind of devs when it comes to Bitcoin.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2P

Many developers of I2P are known only under pseudonyms. While the previous main developer, jrandom, is currently on hiatus, others, such as zzz and Complication have continued to lead development efforts, and are assisted by numerous contributors.[1]

Perhaps, If for some reason current devs would not want (or could not) to maintain Bitcoin anymore, then some new, anonymous devs could take over, I2P - style.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

The answer is easy. Fork a bitcoin clone into using a different algorythm. Or use litecoin or devcoin in iran Tongue

Also wtf ?

btw trying to go "legit" is what killed glbse.

Steve

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Quote from: casascius on November 30, 2012, 04:22:15 PM

Quote from: chrisrico on November 30, 2012, 04:18:18 PM

This looks more like monopoly money than federal reserve notes to me.

Agreed on the colored notes, but definitely not on the coins.

When I first happened across the liberty dollar (long before Bitcoin...early 2000s, maybe even late 90s), I recall thinking his tactics were a somewhat deceptive. He would advocate things like trying to use liberty dollars in a restaurant to pay a bill without first informing the waiter what it actually was. That and the imagery on the coins that made them look official (and the use of $ and "Trust in God") turned me off. Not to mention that the silver coins were priced way above the spot price (almost double if I recall).

All of this could have been just due to a lack of good judgement on his part, but I can certainly see the case against him. But the government's press release after the conviction was pretty chilling...it went way beyond the matter of counterfeiting and fraud.

FreeMoney

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on November 30, 2012, 12:24:53 PM

Quote from: Technomage on November 30, 2012, 12:16:17 PM

What options do we have when governments attack the dev team? The fact that someone in the team is afraid is a genuine problem.

They wouldn't need to "attack" them. I'm more and more convinced that just a polite request would be enough for Garzik to implement the perfect surveillance tool for the state to link addresses to people and monitor every flow of coins. Hell, he's trying to implement it right now, in anticipation.

Sad.

You would run that code?

If what you are accusing him of was even possible most of us wouldn't be here.

casascius

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Quote from: chrisrico on November 30, 2012, 04:27:07 PM

Mike, Farsi is spoken natively in (according to Wikipedia) Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Bahrain, and Azerbaijan.

I don't understand why you're defending the ban so hard.

It's also spoken here in the US. If you don't understand why I support Jeff's action by now (which I understand to be a timeout, not permanent), no amount of explanation will change that.

FreeMoney

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Quote from: paulie_w on November 30, 2012, 12:42:19 PM

the only acceptable explanation is that jgarzik knows something about the technical limitations (weaknesses, vulnerabilities) of the currency as it stands. anything else is extremely suspicious.

Right... when you compare the probabilities of [someone being nuts or having a bad day or disagreeing with your values] to [critical bitcoin vulnerability] it's all just so clear.

chrisrico

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Mike, Farsi is spoken natively in (according to Wikipedia) Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Bahrain, and Azerbaijan.

I don't understand why you're defending the ban so hard.

casascius

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Quote from: Daily Anarchist on November 30, 2012, 04:22:28 PM

tl;dr

Governments love cowards who don't challenge their authority.

They also love fools who challenge it so overtly so that they can be taken down with a minimum of public outcry.

Daily Anarchist

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tl;dr

Governments love cowards who don't challenge their authority.

casascius

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Quote from: chrisrico on November 30, 2012, 04:18:18 PM

This looks more like monopoly money than federal reserve notes to me.

Agreed on the colored notes, but definitely not on the coins.

chrisrico

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Quote from: casascius on November 30, 2012, 03:48:39 PM

All of these are off-topic for #bitcoin-dev and I would expect persistence in discussing them after being asked not to would probably be met with similar results.

So would an in-depth discussion of the latest episode of Honey Boo Boo, or whether Anderson Cooper is gay, or the requirements to get into medical school.

Ok, so after the warning if you changed the topic to translating Bitcoin into a foreign language, should that be met with a ban?

Quote from: casascius on November 30, 2012, 04:17:03 PM

Unless the prosecution made up the photos of them circulating on the Internet, I'd have to disagree. They aren't replicas, but they are similar enough in style to be plausible as US dollars.

This looks more like monopoly money than federal reserve notes to me.

casascius

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Quote from: Rudd-O on November 30, 2012, 04:00:19 PM

This is a lie -- in fact, it was the lie that was used to cage von NotHaus. Liberty Dollars looked nothing like U.S. dollars -- the prosecution made the whole thing up to have an excuse to put von NotHaus in a cage.

Unless the prosecution made up the photos of them circulating on the Internet, I'd have to disagree. They aren't replicas, but they are similar enough in style to be plausible as US dollars.

Rudd-O

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Quote from: RodeoX on November 30, 2012, 10:57:23 AM

To give an example of how far Iran has to go to avoid any U.S. dollars, look at how they sell oil.
First they ship the oil for sale to Turkey. They cannot be paid in dollars so they take Turkish Lira. Then they go shopping for gold bars in Istanbul. The gold is then brought in small amounts to Dubai by couriers. From there the gold can be used to buy things Iran needs.

This gets Iranians +1 cleverness points in my book. A peaceful solution to an agressive threat by sociopaths.

Rudd-O

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Quote from: RodeoX on November 30, 2012, 10:57:23 AM

Quote from: greyhawk on November 30, 2012, 08:16:27 AM

jgarzik is quite right. The SHA-256 algorithm is property of the US and export regulations for SHA-256 expressively forbid exporting the algorithm or products based on the algorithm to Iran.

Why are people ignoring this fact. It is illegal.

It's not a fact, and it isn't even legally correct, to say that SHA-256 is "property" of anyone. People doing business as "U.S. government" may threaten you with a cage if you give an implementation of SHA-256 to people they dislike, but that doesn't mean "SHA-256 is their property" -- it only means that these people are sociopaths.

MatthewLM

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