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Topic: Let the Machines do the Work (The end of Slavery) - page 13. (Read 18320 times)

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
That would not happen.
First off, if Bitcoin is worth a million dollars, the dollar already did something wrong.

Second, Bitcoin does not have the ability to "replace" the current economy. It is simply an alternative, all the currencies will need to work together to wipe out paper money, and get the world back to gold, and the new credit/token/coin currencies.

Third, Sure Bitcoin could hurt the economy, as long as people like me don't suggest alternatives. My suggestion is, when you have an excess in another coin or dollars, or euros... But Coins for more than they are worth, simply to help the economy thrive. I believe if rich people did the same thing (bought euros with their American dollars, then bought American dollars for 1.25% their value) the economy would correct itself. But people are just too greedy, my hope is that we can inform enough miners to make that not the case with crypto currency.

True, you could make mike coins and one day people could stop using them. BUT, if you invent something, or create a business and make Mikecoins the main currency used to buy the item, or within the business (like dave and busters) you can guive your coins a real world value and they will never be worthless.

And I know wealth is not made from thin air, and that is not what I am suggesting. I suggest SHARING wealth once it is got, and inventing new things and starting new organizations.

I'm saying, people would never start using them; nobody would bother.  Nobody wants to use a million different coins to buy a million different things.  For example, if Google invented Googlecoins, and Amazon invented Amazoncoins (not the stuff they already got, mind you,) people would cry, "But we already have Bitcoin!  I don't want to use Googlecoins!"  It would be like McDonalds only accepting Happycoins, or WalMart only accepted Walcoins; it's bad for business, and makes it annoying for the consumer to keep track of it.  Also, by assigning your Googlecoins a value of 10 Bitcoins a pop, you're artificially setting the price; this doesn't happen in the real world.  People have to figure out what a currency is worth by themselves by agreeing on it.  It would be like saying my Laptop isn't really worth $200, it's actually worth $2000, except no one would purchase at $200 laptop at $2000, unless they were getting shafted.

In relation to your last statement: If wealth is not created from thin air, you cannot share what wealth you didn't create from thin air.  That's essentially what this is boiling down to; it's an attempt to generate wealth by doing nothing.  In the end, it's going to do little more than secure the various crypto-coin networks, without making the person money.  If I sold you a mining rig for 10k Shagcoins, and you used it to produce 100k Mikecoins, all of which are worth 10k Shagcoins (if you're lucky), then we're going nowhere.  As I said before, in a system like this, it's better to either lose the concept of crypto-currency all together, or stick with a system in which people work; there is no real in-between here.  If people are already living off machine labor, and all their necessities are being met, then they have no real reason to trade to live.  They might trade for entertainment and such, but, I predict that even this will disappear.  Really, there's nothing left to fight for, once everyone's perfectly healthy and happy; you just do what you wanna do, like go biking, or write a book.  The question is then irrelevant to this thread; how to make it all happen to ensure people are actually free.

As myrkul said, I'm not trying to rain on your idea, but, let's get to the root of the matter.  Have you seen Zeitgeist?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Please understand, I'm not just trying to kill your buzz here. I'm trying to save you a lot of wasted time and money. If you want to try and make a solar miner, go for it. But please, don't pretend that it's the answer to all the world's problems. You can't just magic up prosperity. You have to work for it.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

You misunderstand. Your coins would be like the actual ditchweed in Europe. Unwanted, unloved, and useful only for rope.

Not if you make it necessary for your invention or business. Which you can create once you have been aided by social welfare.
Social welfare paid for by mining those new coins! I gotta admit, your logic is perfect (-ly circular).
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube

You misunderstand. Your coins would be like the actual ditchweed in Europe. Unwanted, unloved, and useful only for rope.

Not if you make it necessary for your invention or business. Which you can create once you have been aided by social welfare.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube
And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.

The case I'm making is this; if each Bitcoin were worth 1 million dollars, and every person had one Bitcoin, 1 million dollars looks like nothing.  300 million millionaires just means people will be trading hundreds of thousands for a loaf of bread.  People do not magically get rich together; something happens in between that allows people to thrive alongside each other.  They thrive because they work and trade their work for the things they need; the issue comes when a person's work is watered down to make the employer richer.

They can create a new currency, but it's still the same issue; at some point in time, people stop accepting it.  I can create Mikecoins, and spend all day mining them with a few buddies, but getting from that stage to where Bitcoin is now would be next to impossible; I'm not adding anything new to Mikecoins.  It's just a BTC clone with a name change and a reset.  There's no appeal for having 10,000 Mikecoins, outside of hoping and praying that it will someday be worth a dollar a pop.  Considering, at this point, there will be millions of other coins on the market, doing nothing but being Bitcoin, it is next to impossible; there will be competition among crypto-currencies, to improve these coins, so people will flock to them, and make the inventors money by transferring the wealth of others, and early adopters, and thus, capitalism.

So what about Mikecoins?  The 1,000,000th bitcoin clone to be created, because the popular Shagcoin became too difficult to mine at a profit?  Well, it goes nowhere, in an over-saturated altcoin market, and is worth next to nothing.  It does not pay for the computers it burned to mine them, and does not pay for me to live.  It's still not worth the effort.  Wealth is not created from thin air, is the point I'm making.

That would not happen.
First off, if Bitcoin is worth a million dollars, the dollar already did something wrong.

Second, Bitcoin does not have the ability to "replace" the current economy. It is simply an alternative, all the currencies will need to work together to wipe out paper money, and get the world back to gold, and the new credit/token/coin currencies.

Third, Sure Bitcoin could hurt the economy, as long as people like me don't suggest alternatives. My suggestion is, when you have an excess in another coin or dollars, or euros... But Coins for more than they are worth, simply to help the economy thrive. I believe if rich people did the same thing (bought euros with their American dollars, then bought American dollars for 1.25% their value) the economy would correct itself. But people are just too greedy, my hope is that we can inform enough miners to make that not the case with crypto currency.

True, you could make mike coins and one day people could stop using them. BUT, if you invent something, or create a business and make Mikecoins the main currency used to buy the item, or within the business (like dave and busters) you can guive your coins a real world value and they will never be worthless.

And I know wealth is not made from thin air, and that is not what I am suggesting. I suggest SHARING wealth once it is got, and inventing new things and starting new organizations.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.
As opposed to your dime-a-dozen NewCoins, which multiply every time difficulty gets too high for the old one.

(and no, those new coins will be ditch-weed, not hash.)

Printing American dollars and making a new currency are 2 completely different things.
Except when you make a new coin every time the difficulty rises above a certain threshold. Then it's essentially the same thing. Just print more money.

Hash is the ditch weed of Europe (available, cheap and plentiful), thanks for trying though.
You misunderstand. Your coins would be like the actual ditchweed in Europe. Unwanted, unloved, and useful only for rope.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.

The case I'm making is this; if each Bitcoin were worth 1 million dollars, and every person had one Bitcoin, 1 million dollars looks like nothing.  300 million millionaires just means people will be trading hundreds of thousands for a loaf of bread.  People do not magically get rich together; something happens in between that allows people to thrive alongside each other.  They thrive because they work and trade their work for the things they need; the issue comes when a person's work is watered down to make the employer richer.

They can create a new currency, but it's still the same issue; at some point in time, people stop accepting it.  I can create Mikecoins, and spend all day mining them with a few buddies, but getting from that stage to where Bitcoin is now would be next to impossible; I'm not adding anything new to Mikecoins.  It's just a BTC clone with a name change and a reset.  There's no appeal for having 10,000 Mikecoins, outside of hoping and praying that it will someday be worth a dollar a pop.  Considering, at this point, there will be millions of other coins on the market, doing nothing but being Bitcoin, it is next to impossible; there will be competition among crypto-currencies, to improve these coins, so people will flock to them, and make the inventors money by transferring the wealth of others, and early adopters, and thus, capitalism.

So what about Mikecoins?  The 1,000,000th bitcoin clone to be created, because the popular Shagcoin became too difficult to mine at a profit?  Well, it goes nowhere, in an over-saturated altcoin market, and is worth next to nothing.  It does not pay for the computers it burned to mine them, and does not pay for me to live.  It's still not worth the effort.  Wealth is not created from thin air, is the point I'm making.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube
And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.
As opposed to your dime-a-dozen NewCoins, which multiply every time difficulty gets too high for the old one.

(and no, those new coins will be ditch-weed, not hash.)

Printing American dollars and making a new currency are 2 completely different things.
Hash is the ditch weed of Europe (available, cheap and plentiful), thanks for trying though.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.
As opposed to your dime-a-dozen NewCoins, which multiply every time difficulty gets too high for the old one.

(and no, those new coins will be ditch-weed, not hash.)
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube
The coin economy is similar to the Cannabis economy in Europe.

Younger people can find hash, but actual buds are hard to find unless you've got connections.

New coins will be hash, while old coins are like buds. And it will go from decade to decade, until we start making coins that can last entire generations. Old coins will be hard to get, while new ones will be in circulation.

And this HAS to happen.
One day too many people will have bitcoins in wallets they don't use, and the coin will go dormant, and a new one will be used.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube


And who will buy your "ItGotTooHardCoin"?

Think about it. Why is Bitcoin worth money?

Bitcoin is worth money because you can buy drugs with it, and now there are REAL stores that will accept it. On and off the internet.

And I could probably exchange my "ItGotTooHardCoin" for "FeatherCoin", since that's basically what feather coin is. And soon feather coin will be worth something.
Uh huh. And when that got too hard? Just make another one, right?

YES.

I really don't see why you have a problem with crypto currencies.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube

Sure, the computers may pay for themselves, but are they profitable, is the question.  If everyone is creating these currencies, no, they are not, because everyone is earning equal amounts of this currency; nobody wants something they already have.  It then becomes a matter of trading something which is no longer scarce, and would still be pointless, for people have no work to store in it; the work is already being done by something which needs no payment.

I know there's a road between now and a PSE or an RBE, but I don't think this is it.

Ok, finally a question I haven't answered yet being asked.

Are they PROFITABLE. True, maybe the computers can only pay for themselves. But when they are FREE, that is enough for you to start something new. It's like giving someone the gift of POTENTIAL.

And your argument of scarcity has been argued over and over, but the simple fact that coins have a limit makes that argument void. Sure they could drop in value, but as long as there are real world uses for them they are still better than the American dollar which is inflated every day by credit and printed money.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Bitcoin is worth money because people want it, and are willing to part with money to get it. If you made a new currency out of nowhere and said, "It's just like Bitcoin, except it's not Bitcoin, because Bitcoin got too hard to mine," You would get far, far fewer people wanting it, and they would want large amounts of it in order to give up anything of theirs. So, you make a few hundred thousand itgottoohardcoins, and trade them in for .1 Bitcoin. Yeah, still not making money.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


And who will buy your "ItGotTooHardCoin"?

Think about it. Why is Bitcoin worth money?

Bitcoin is worth money because you can buy drugs with it, and now there are REAL stores that will accept it. On and off the internet.

And I could probably exchange my "ItGotTooHardCoin" for "FeatherCoin", since that's basically what feather coin is. And soon feather coin will be worth something.
Uh huh. And when that got too hard? Just make another one, right?
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003

I ALREADY REPLIED TO THIS...

There are more than one kind of coin, SWITCH COINS, or make a new one when it gets too hard. And as I said before, I'm not even mainly focused on BTC. The computers WILL pay for themselves.

Solar Power is costly if you want to solar power a building, but to just solar one room, or even just one outlet is too expensive. And there is the wind power alternative.

Sounds like a lot of hope but not a lot of underlying planning.  When LTC gets filled up and is no longer profitable, you go to PPCoin; when PPCoin is no longer profitable, you go to TRC; when TRC is no longer profitable, you go to, I dunno, Bytecoin; eventually people start making their own coins and mine those, but are worth maybe .000001 BTC a piece.  Anyway, wealth isn't created out of thin air, unless we're talking about the banks, but as we can see, this isn't good for society at all.  If machines are doing all the work, we may as well not worry about money anymore; when people have food, shelter, water, security, all in one package, given to them, for free, they just go out and do their own thing anyway.

Sure, the computers may pay for themselves, but are they profitable, is the question.  If everyone is creating these currencies, no, they are not, because everyone is earning equal amounts of this currency; nobody wants something they already have.  It then becomes a matter of trading something which is no longer scarce, and would still be pointless, for people have no work to store in it; the work is already being done by something which needs no payment.

I know there's a road between now and a PSE or an RBE, but I don't think this is it.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube


And who will buy your "ItGotTooHardCoin"?

Think about it. Why is Bitcoin worth money?

Bitcoin is worth money because you can buy drugs with it, and now there are REAL stores that will accept it. On and off the internet.

And I could probably exchange my "ItGotTooHardCoin" for "FeatherCoin", since that's basically what feather coin is. And soon feather coin will be worth something.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Yes, BITCOINtalk.org.

A place to talk about a made up currency, lol.

And who will buy your "ItGotTooHardCoin"?

Think about it. Why is Bitcoin worth money?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube

Yes, BITCOINtalk.org.

A place to talk about a made up new currency, lol.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
There are more than one kind of coin, SWITCH COINS, or make a new one when it gets too hard.

Right... just make up a new currency. You haven't thought that one through very far, have you?

Do you know what website this is?
Yes, BITCOINtalk.org.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Google/YouTube
There are more than one kind of coin, SWITCH COINS, or make a new one when it gets too hard.

Right... just make up a new currency. You haven't thought that one through very far, have you?

Do you know what website this is?
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