Liberated: LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans - page 10.

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on June 21, 2019, 11:14:37 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on June 21, 2019, 10:11:13 AM

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.

I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"

If there was achange output, you can use CPFP on it.

Quote from: LoyceV on June 05, 2019, 03:39:57 AM

I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.

I don't think that's entirely correct. The "banks" problem is more when nodes become very big and LN becomes very centralized, but even then anyone can still create their own node.

99Bitcoins.com can explain it much better than I can:

Quote from: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-lightning-network/#ln-explained

if I want to transact with my friend, we open an “off-chain” payment channel between us.
~snip~
Simply put, my friend and I write down how much each one owes the other without ever exchanging the money until we choose to settle the bill.
~snip~
When you open a payment channel, each of you deposits a certain amount of money that acts as a security deposit.
(further reading)

bitmover

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 21, 2019, 10:11:13 AM

if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee.

I think it will happen to me... i used 4 sat/byte . I thought "I am not in a hurry, i am not transferring to anyone"

Edit: But, I will be "charged" for closing the channel? How am I going to be charged, if I am the only one with the private key? Theoretically I would have to go to the wallet and pay this fee for closing the channel, right?
Or is Eclair getting my keys and closing channels after 24h? This is not clear to me.

Edit2: Just saw that to open the channel I needed to transfer 0.001 to another wallet.... so they have the keys... That is basically a loan.
I didn´t knew about it. I understood now what people were saying when they said nodes were becoming banks.

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on June 21, 2019, 09:44:10 AM

I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?

It's up to you what fee to choose, but as I found out the hard way: if it doesn't confirm within 24 hours, the channel gets closed at a much higher fee. That's the part I can't control (I think the node decides), and fees for opening and closing channels are indeed the main worry I have for large scale LN adoption.
As long as the node keeps running, I don't really see a reason to close the channel.

bitmover

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 20, 2019, 02:33:26 PM

Quote from: bitmover on June 20, 2019, 01:50:51 PM

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I open a channel?

Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

Hello Loycev

I have opened a channel (still waiting for confirmation of the transaction

This is the channel id.
I found it very expensive to open the channel. Unless we are planning to make a lot of transitions, it is more expensive to use lightning network, right?

68a147394c28312b887c590b59523ed4886a0f9f14d2b7a27e76f98e7cf64c1f

In the next hours (when confirmed) I will make the payment request for 0.1mBTC

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on June 20, 2019, 01:50:51 PM

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I open a channel?

Yes. A channel needs at least 1 mBTC (some nodes require more), and to do that, you'll need to fund the Eclair wallet first (on-chain).

bitmover

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 20, 2019, 10:31:40 AM

What wallet are you using?

I am using Éclair wallet.
Do I need to send some funds to the wallet so I open a channel?

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on June 20, 2019, 07:44:13 AM

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"

What wallet are you using?

Quote

Cani use some already opened channel?

I think that's only possible if you use a custodial wallet.

bitmover

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Hello Loycev
I would like to participate

I was trying to open a channel but I am receiving weird messages
"Channel capacity not valid"
Cani use some already opened channel?

Sorry I am a newbie with this

LoyceV

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 20, 2019, 05:29:02 AM

Paid.

Received.

Quote

The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.

With Eclair and the node I'm connected to, any transaction up to 3 satoshi doesn't take a fee and is very fast, anything above that charges a (small) fee and takes a bit longer (maybe 5 seconds) to find a route).
I've tried BlueWallet a couple of times too, but it's quite annoying with the amount of confirmation screens I get. That's probably good for serious usage, but not for testing it and sending a couple hundred transactions in a short time.

It probably doesn't help that I use a tablet for testing, while Eclair and BlueWallet are designed to be used on a phone. I just don't want to experiment on devices that I use for other things.

Rath_

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 20, 2019, 05:25:01 AM

I like it, deal Cheesy

I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:

Paid. The routing fee was lower this time, 2.01 satoshi and the transaction was instant despite being connected to different nodes.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 20, 2019, 05:13:03 AM

I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more Wink

I like it, deal Cheesy

I've increased the interest by 2% (from 100 to 102 satoshi). Please pay 0.00010102 BTC:

Code:

lnbc101020n1pwskh3rpp55cf2tn68dmg4pskula9elmk2yle0rsu7hfcewpx7l9m6wn8r2w8qdqqxqr4rqrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glc7zxwl5qq04qqqqqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjq0dj7h8kdr68g6hp8222fwrps0y6pkd8pzmyjelzg6qts8nnxn77zecgtgzh07sr45j9z8k83m732jm70w0e9g9gjdewnjfhc7sju45qqy3y8zm

Quote

I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.

I'll check it.

Rath_

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I would like to repay my loan. Feel free to charge me more Wink

I am going to open a bigger channel anyway. I will use Eclair Mobile this time so the routing fee should be different. By the way, a new non-custodial Lightning Network wallet has been released. It's available for both iOS and Android so it's perfect for most people here.

LoyceV

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 19, 2019, 01:50:23 AM

My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.

I noticed BlueWallet is just a bit inaccurate. I did this starting with an empty wallet:
I deposited 200 sat. It shows the deposit correctly, but the balance shown was 198 sat.
I withdrew 196 sat. It shows the withdrawal correctly, the remaining balance was 2 sat.
I withdrew 2 sat. The balance now shows 0 sat, but the withdrawal is shown as 4 sat.

All in all nothing I worry about, and I assume they'll fix those tiny details at some point.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 18, 2019, 05:38:12 AM

From what I've seen, [BlueWallet] charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).

My understanding is BlueWallet will force the user to reserve 1% for possible LN channel fees, but will not necessarily actually charge this much, depending on the LN network fees. I have noticed their LN fees to be higher than sending transactions while connected to a few well connected nodes found on 1ML. The total cost, including tx fees, and fees paid to 3rd party nodes when using a non-custodial wallet, remains lower using BlueWallet.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Rath_ on June 18, 2019, 05:14:04 AM

What node are you connected to?

I'm currently connected to one of ACINQ's nodes, which is the easiest to connect to from Eclair.

Quote

Code:

lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq

Funded! Welcome my third customer Cheesy

I paid a whopping 5.52 satoshi on fees.

I also installed BlueWallet, which allows receiving Lighting payments without funding a channel first. Using a custodial wallet certainly has benefits. BlueWallet recommends to only use it for small amounts.
From what I've seen, it charges (up to) 1% in fees for making a payment. For small payments, that's totally acceptable, and much less than the on-chain fee I paid to close a channel that failed to open (due to my low funding fee).

Rath_

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Great idea Loyce! What node are you connected to?

Code:

lightning:lnbc100u1pws3w8tpp5eyzwh4hwtqkj83yeueqkgaycjxtnzqyza8fwkdvd6wakv6unx4dqdp2f3hhjcm92csxcmmpdcsxvmmjyppxjazrwfuhqar90qcqzpgxqyz5vq02ly82jzuhayx6pcd78p4xygmvnf44xwtq657llpnfu2k7qf2fwhlepgzqqzdd89kzsdkrjwpslrh0qkw70mfq5q0wvvmjd45fjveygpu307qq

Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on June 03, 2019, 08:36:32 AM

[...]and then I'll setup my Lighting node as I dream to do this for very long time now.

If you need any help, hit me up! I can also help with setting up Zap on your mobile which will make it easier for you to manage your node.

LoyceV

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Quote from: wwzsocki on June 11, 2019, 05:30:48 AM

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.

Top 11 Wallets for the Bitcoin Lightning Network gives 3 options. I can't tell you how safe they are, and I haven't tested them.

wwzsocki

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 06, 2019, 02:25:07 AM

...I don't have an android device, so Eclair is not an option for me.

Same here and additionally Bluewallet wich PrimeNumber7 used is only for Android and Mac. I have only windows on my computers and my phone.

This is a great opportunity to learn about the LN and the best way to do it is to send a transaction, download wallet, just do all of this, step by step by yourself.

From the discussion in this thread, I see that already involved members gathered a lot of new knowledge about the LN network.

Great idea @Loycev if you know any windows wallet which is safe to use I will be glad to try it.

LoyceV

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Quote from: thehun on June 10, 2019, 07:01:23 AM

This one worked Grin

I've sent it from Tippin to my Eclair wallet with no problems.

Quote

I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something.

We're playing with experimental technology here. It's fun to do, but far from finished. From what I've seen, custodial wallets work easier than non-custodial wallets. For decentralization, I hope latter wallets will be improved, but I'm okay with using a custodial wallet for small payments if I have to.

Quote

Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.

In many cases 10 minutes is enough, but indeed for payments through different time zones it's not very convenient if it expires before the other party has even seen it.

Quote

In any case, thanks for a great trade!

Thanks for joining this test

thehun

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Quote from: LoyceV on June 10, 2019, 06:02:36 AM

I don't know what causes it. Try paying to https://tippin.me/@LoyceVVal ?

This one worked Grin

Payment hash 65109e8e0a6d9882674787c282bbc797684ce3a8665fb2836086113af8d6c605

I like the concept and the speed of LN transactions but I feel like there is still a lot to improve before we can think of mass adoption. Setting up an incoming channel should be a lot easier and it's not very convenient to need to have the client running all the time if you want to receive something. Also, 6 hours max expiry for a payment request is not enough.

In any case, thanks for a great trade!

Topic: Liberated: LoyceV's Legendary Little Lightning Loans - page 10. (Read 4891 times)