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Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 7. (Read 13021 times)

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: n0nce on July 21, 2023, 08:44:10 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 19, 2023, 03:25:56 AM

Has Channel CoinJoins already been added and implemented in Lightning? I read about it two years ago, but had since heard nothing about it.

If it's added, then Lightning is still not the first choice protocol for regular Bitcoin users to "mix" their coins. Many users choose to convert to Monero or use CoinJoin and mixers. Plus it's marketed that "fast, cheap transactions" is still the main value proposition for Lightning, not privacy.

You may be referring to this article: https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/lightning-coinjoins/
Splicing and rebalancing seem quite useful and can definitely add some extra privacy on top.

I first read about Splicing and CoinJoin in this site, https://lightningprivacy.com/en/channel-coinjoins

But the information in there is limited. We need more ELI-5 kind of write ups.

Quote from: cygan on July 11, 2023, 02:14:30 PM

the PhoenixWallet which allows you to store your Bitcoin on the lightning network itself, has implemented "splicing" in beta and other great features!

👍

Achieving base layer privacy through Lightning might illustrate that's the perfect conjunction between onchain and offchain.

Bd officer

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Cashback 15%

Binance successfully integrated Bitcoin's Lightning Network, enabling faster and more cost-effective BTC transactions. ⚡️🚀 Embracing the power of Lightning Network enhances the efficiency and scalability of Bitcoin transactions on the Binance platform. #Bitcoin    #LightningNetwork
https://twitter.com/Volcano_Energy/status/1681681037758197761?t=q8giFFqTsdtdonfNkmhBTA&s=19

Beautiful visual representation of the #LightningNetwork

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 19, 2023, 03:25:56 AM

You may be referring to this article: https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/lightning-coinjoins/
Splicing and rebalancing seem quite useful and can definitely add some extra privacy on top.

As explained here, Lightning is not perfectly private as of right now.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/state-of-bitcoin-lightning-network-privacy

I'm not sure about the state of splicing in July 2023, though.
Core Lightning has an open Pull Request for it, although it seems like other implementations just started supporting it:

Quote from: cygan on July 11, 2023, 02:14:30 PM

the PhoenixWallet which allows you to store your Bitcoin on the lightning network itself, has implemented "splicing" in beta and other great features!

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: franky1 on July 19, 2023, 07:09:15 PM

funny part is that more people use CEX internal reserve swaps between services and stable coin by a magnitude of 1,000,000x compared to LN
the reason people avoid the bitcoin network first and then use CEX second and then use ln 7th (other bridge subnetworks exist with more liquidity 3-6) is due primarily due to high onchain fees.

yep people avoid the bitcoin network due to fee's not due to (lack of)successes of other flawed systems

funny part is instead of fixing flaws to make it better they just want to promote any hype they can find
especially when if you really observe you will find the initiation of LN was inspired by the hyperledger project(institutions gathering to prototype CBDC, asking bitcoin devs to develop and sandbox test CDBC methodology on subnetworks)

so ofcourse a FED is going to suck eggs about something they pushed for years prior. as its the basis of their own project

Yes yes, and the way to fix those flaws to make onchain fees lower is simply to hard fork to bigger blocks like BCash, right, right? Noted.

Here's a write up for everyone, especially newbies, to read, https://medium.com/hackernoon/thats-not-bitcoin-that-s-bcash-f730f0d0a837

OK, let's move on.

Quote from: fillippone on July 20, 2023, 02:31:49 AM

SBW Wond be supporting LN anymore.
Motivations are interesting.

It has been debated here in the forum before. It will be challenging for users to run Lightning nodes altruistically forever. There will be opportunity costs because Bitcoin = a form of capital. There must be enough incentives for all that capital to be locked in those channels. If not, then the result is simple. They leave.

fillippone

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SBW Wond be supporting LN anymore.
Motivations are interesting.

Quote from: ?? on ??

<...>

What is this post for?

franky1

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funny part is that more people use CEX internal reserve swaps between services and stable coin by a magnitude of 1,000,000x compared to LN
the reason people avoid the bitcoin network first and then use CEX second and then use ln 7th (other bridge subnetworks exist with more liquidity 3-6) is due primarily due to high onchain fees.

yep people avoid the bitcoin network due to fee's not due to (lack of)successes of other flawed systems

funny part is instead of fixing flaws to make it better they just want to promote any hype they can find
especially when if you really observe you will find the initiation of LN was inspired by the hyperledger project(institutions gathering to prototype CBDC, asking bitcoin devs to develop and sandbox test CDBC methodology on subnetworks)

so ofcourse a FED is going to suck eggs about something they pushed for years prior. as its the basis of their own project

fillippone

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You know you are on something when the Cleveland FED publishes a paper about Lightning Network:

The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

Quote

The Lightning Network (LN) is a means of netting Bitcoin payments outside the blockchain. We find a significant association between LN adoption and reduced blockchain congestion, suggesting that the LN has helped improve the efficiency of Bitcoin as a means of payment. This improvement cannot be explained by other factors, such as changes in demand or the adoption of SegWit. We find mixed evidence on whether increased centralization in the Lightning Network has improved its efficiency. Our findings have implications for the future of cryptocurrencies as a means of payment and their environmental footprint.

cryptosize

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 19, 2023, 03:25:56 AM

I said "has the potential" to gather the largest anonymity set, which I believe it could.

Possibly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/150zzcr/we_can_potentially_use_splicing_to_bootstrap_the/

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on July 18, 2023, 11:53:36 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

It's still very early days for Lightning.

It's not that early. I mean, lightning began in 2017. Six years and two bull markets have passed since then.

I'm sorry, but from a very long term perspective, it's very VERY early days. We haven't truly reached mass adoption yet.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners?

It's both already.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

That's very debatable. In terms of BTC, lightning has ~5,000 BTC, which is ~$150M. Monero, with a circulating supply of 18M XMR, has an equivalent of ~99,447 BTC. It's much better in terms of anonymity set.

I said "has the potential" to gather the largest anonymity set, which I believe it could.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

It's still very early days for Lightning.

It's not that early. I mean, lightning began in 2017. Six years and two bull markets have passed since then.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners?

It's both already.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 18, 2023, 11:23:56 AM

Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Vickysagar on July 17, 2023, 02:40:13 AM

Quote from: cygan on July 17, 2023, 02:30:41 AM

after Bitfinex and Kraken, Binance is the next major exchange that has now successfully completed the integration of lightning network for deposits and withdrawals

https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-completes-integration-of-bitcoin-btc-on-lightning-network-opens-deposits-and-withdrawals-eefbfae2c0ae472d9e1e36f1a30bf340
https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-integration-bitcoin-btc-lightning-network

They're a little bit late, but it's better late than never. I'm surprised it took them so long to integrate it since Binance is the biggest exchange.

Late? I believe not, ser. It's still very early days for Lightning. We don't know what LN can really be for the users yet, in my opinion. Is it merely for fast, cheap, peer to peer transactions? Or could it be a privacy layer for Bitcoiners? I read a write up saying that Splicing was the answer to make Lightning more private.

I also believe that there will be larger demand for more channels and liquidity in Lightning - IF it were to become Bitcoin's own privacy layer. Because LN has the potential to gather the largest anonymity set, it could be more private than any "privacy-only cryptocurrency network".

Out of mind

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I like to treat everyone as a friend 🔹

Glad to present all the new shiny rgbex.io: an explorer for the world of Bitcoin Finance #BiFi and smart contracts on #Bitcoin & Lightning - now supporting all the new #RGB features from the latest v0.10 release.

PS Made with zero javascript & cookies policy
https://twitter.com/rgbexio/status/1680991441785348097?t=WBApCqsgvItoBh0jSnPjCQ&s=19

cryptosize

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on July 17, 2023, 07:59:23 AM

Quote from: cryptosize on July 17, 2023, 06:31:30 AM

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

According to this, between 200 and 13,000 sats, which for lightning standards is pricey, but hey. It's Binance.

Yeah, that's a lot. I wonder if Kraken LN fees are lower.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: cryptosize on July 17, 2023, 06:31:30 AM

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

According to this, between 200 and 13,000 sats, which for lightning standards is pricey, but hey. It's Binance.

cryptosize

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Quote from: cygan on July 17, 2023, 02:30:41 AM

How much is the fee to withdraw BTC-LN from Binance? 0 sats?

Vickysagar

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Quote from: cygan on July 17, 2023, 02:30:41 AM

They're a little bit late, but it's better late than never. I'm surprised it took them so long to integrate it since Binance is the biggest exchange.

cygan

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🔐Icarus CEO💳

franky1

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saw no decrease in success rates becasue they closed 2 channels that were being unused and just locking up value thats done nothing.. so ofcourse it wont affect success rates if the channels they closed were never used in first place

but atleast its now showing a better more honest display of liquidity. rather than shill capacity that was never used

cygan

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the reason for the biggest drop in capacity to date (in this case around 590 BTC) is the closure of 2 major ln channels by River

https://twitter.com/Leishman/status/1678778742511136770

Makus

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Bitcoin!!

Coinfinity, an Austrian bitcoin broker, has recently integrated the Lightning Network into its services, allowing customers to make bitcoin purchases with reduced transaction fees and quicker processing times.

Thomas Burgstaller, Chief Growth Officer at Coinfinity, highlighted the significance of this integration, stating, "Being this early to market is an important innovation step for us at Coinfinity, and Lightning itself is an essential foundation for the global adoption of Bitcoin as a usable monetary system."

The Lightning network, a Layer 2 scaling solution, addresses the limitations of the Bitcoin blockchain by facilitating faster and more cost-effective transactions for smaller bitcoin amounts. By leveraging the Lightning network, Coinfinity aims to enhance Bitcoin's usability as a competitive payment system, surpassing the transaction volumes of major card networks such as VISA or Mastercard.

Customers of Coinfinity can gradually access Lightning features through the company's web portal and mobile app for iOS and Android — currently, users can utilize Lightning to buy bitcoin, after which it will be integrated into the savings plan feature and then the selling function.

This integration not only offers convenience to users but also contributes to the wider adoption of Bitcoin as a viable means of payment. The move comes as Coinfinity seeks to optimize transaction efficiency and reduce costs associated with traditional bitcoin transactions.

Source:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/austrian-bitcoin-broker-coinfinity-integrates-lightning-network