Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 4. (Read 13674 times)

funny part is i was calling out the segwit flaws in 2016.. and look what happened JUNK


LN has bottlenecks and flaws that then require watchtowers and custodian hubs.. and look whats happening, majority of LN nodes are centralised custodian hubs

you may not like that i dont ass kiss things.. but there are too many ass kissers already. other people actually want to learn how things actually work and not just be told the utopian sales pitch of ass kissery dreamers

i sorry if im ruining anyones opportunity to syphon money from victims of these flaws, but im more sorry for the victims getting fund syphoned from folk that care more about greed than a payment system thats secure

When you start out with such ridiculous, then it can be quite difficult to go along with some of your other points, even though some of them may well be valid.

I am pretty sure that liquid was developed by blockstream, but not lightning network, even if blockstream is involved in lightning network in a variety of ways and even though blockstream did back segwit, which apparently made lightning network easier to introduce as a bitcoin second layer solution.


Yeah.. what else is new.  Franky1 is already known for being both a segwit and a LN party poop, and it had been kind of ambiguous about his big blocker promotional status, even though he claims to be an "independent thinker" but he gets into a lot of trouble regarding his repeatedly spreading misleading information about some of the technical aspects of bitcoin, and not seeming to want to account for points made by others - including even repeating some of the suggestions that LN is being promoted as if it were the same as bitcoin, which we know that it is a different tool in the shed that may well be used for different purposes, even though surely not any kind of perfect tool.


Some of us are likely just getting used to using lighting network, even though it has been running for nearly 7 years (in January is the b-day of its going live)... so yeah, there are some user-friendly (or lack thereof) aspects to lightning network, and so far I have ONLY some limited exposure to it myself... . and maybe I should have had posted my question about my Breez wallet here (here's a link to the other LN thread for my Breez wallet question).

i got no problems with functional subnetworks that meet promises for certain niches..
but the empty broken promises being sold as 'the utopian solution everyone should use'.. just tarnishes bitcoins reputation by association, because when people do use these snake oil sales pitched stuff, they have bad experiences and they wrongly think their experience is of "bitcoin"

el salvador in 2021 said they wanted to get into bitcoin. but were schemed into using LN as the backbone of payment processing in september 2021.. and by december 2021 el salvador experienced the lies and empty promises and all the flaws.. they dropped using LN
they now use a CEX as the payment processor and account balance custodian

and yet years later idiots still promote LN as the thing el salvador use and pretend LN is used by most people trying to move funds offchain. when in reality there are millions of people prefering CEX and stable coins and other bridge subnetworks

i have no mental implosions when i see how the LN affiliates, promoters and corporations operate.. i just feel pitty for the victims and just face palm the idiots promoting LN using old-outdated sales pitches

my only wish is that devs actually stop ass kissing each other as gods. and instead ass kick each other into actually innovating

maybe you are overly critical of these subnetworks and LN, they don't need to provide the same level of security bitcoin itself provides. and what SHOULD BE doesn't really matter, regardless of how you feel about it, the masses might never understand or benefit from Bitcoin layer 1. they might all be offramped into a Layer 2 that isn't permissionless, requires middle men to work properly, etc...And "THEY" will have watchtowers watching over everyones transactions with government mandates imposing spending limits for various goods. "they" will have won!

will your head explode when that day comes?
are you going to be OK?
 

wow that got dark.

lmao good day dude love your contrabutions to the fourm.

yet the same devs shouting bitcoin should not be used by unbanked, small payments are perfectly fine with scammers moving a single sat to scam idiots for $200k with added pixel junk in metadata.. strange huh

funny to hear idiots shouting bitcoin should not be used for cupcakes or pizza (0.00005-0.0005) but if someone wants to move 0.00001001 they are told they can and should not be stopped as its "censorship"

and how the junk and spam should continue on bitcoin and how the genuine goods and services should be done on subnetworks

and no im not talking about altcoins.
SUB NETWORKS vs altcoins are 2 different things

im not a fan of any current lineup of subnetworks because they all miss key security features thus should not be the "solutions". they all break promises and are mostly hype..  i was just suggesting that LN is not the solution, nor even the top capacity subnetwork
there will new other subnetworks that fill niches for certain activities(once devs learn from mistakes) but none should be the offramp where everyone should use, instead of or to avoid using bitcoin

and sorry to even inform this topic. but LN has had its day..
its far better people learn from LN mistakes and start afresh to make a better subnetwork without the flaws, and with a proper goal of what niche subgroup of people they want to populate it

trying to be a be-all do-all network but never achieve its promises. will never work
trying to kick the LN tin can down the path hoping it will fix itself will just end up putting more dings and dents into it

I agree not enough focus has been placed on layer1 scaling and that is probably for the benefit of Layer2. but imo establishing early on that layer1 isn't meant for micro transaction, isn’t the worst thing.
but...
what are these other subnetworks besides LN/Liquid?
are you refering to altcoins?

isnt it interesting that when talking about the multitude of subnetworks.. many people just want to know, discuss, mention LN and liquid.. both being products of blockstream

blockstream founded by core devs and funded using HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars to create the gateway(segwit)keys into those particular subnetworks. by which the same devs sponsored to spend years creating the subnetworks and altering bitcoin to add features purely to be used as access keys to those subnetworks to benefit features of those subnetworks.. meanwhile for years ignoring the communities desires for onchain scaling and onchain mitigation of spam and junk

now ask yourself why have core devs done nothing to mitigate spam and junk on bitcoin for years... by either preventing or independently penalising those spammers/junkers.. why instead prefer the whole community get penalised or transact less on bitcoin to instead promote they should use another network
seems to me these devs are no longer bitcoin devs and instead sponsored subnetwork devs..
 
now the next question. follow the money. then you see whom is behind all the shinanigans and who is ripe to receive all the ROI via the middle men routing payment fee's.. to reimburse them for their initial blockstream investment.. well thats if they can promote and populate their subnetwork enough to make it worthy of an ROI

meanwhile other people that just got annoyed by the blockstream roadmap and ejected from proposing idea's that differ from the roadmap, decided to make other subnetworks

and now many people are wising up to the fact that LN/liquids promises are breaking. or never flourished.. are starting to use/create other subnetworks

now if anyone is stil promoting LN as utopian "the solution", you are obviously reiterating a sales pitch of empty promises made 6 years ago. its time you moved forward from those archaic words

After reading a little bit about Liquid and Wrapped bitcoin, i like the idea. it seems like a totally viable Layer2 solution, ofc there are trade offs it is a layer 2 after all, but seems legit. LN gets the spotlight as THE scaling solution, but i think franky1 is right there are other promising alternative scaling solutions. with fees on L1 growing rapidly i suspect these L2 will get alot more action in the coming year. Maybe in the furutre poeple wont be so conserned about which shitcoins to buy but rather which L2 network to store BTC into.

Regarding your points, you are right about the trustlessness part of my earlier statement.
Regarding the usage of centralised nodes and liquidity hubs, that is convenience, and nothing implied at protocol level. Of course there is space for improvement.
Instead I am interested on your first statement, regarding other subnetwork with more liquidity. Which are you referring to in particular? Liquid maybe?

there are many subnetworks.. and LN is not the one with the larget liquidity so its not the sole contender
if you ever want to dare challenge yourself to learn about LN you will learn that it is not trustless

much like people cant trust unconfirmed bitcoin transactions until settled. you shouldnt trust unsettled LN balance
so LN is not trustless
why do you think even the main LN devs are resorting to centralised hubs and watchtowers and factory nodes for channel creation..

stop selling the snake oil utopian dream and instead atleast try to learn what LN is and does, especially what it doesnt do

Lightning Network being a layer-2 payment protocol enables faster withdrawals and it lowers transaction fees due to which its use and popularity is increasing in various countries that legalize Bitcoin. In many countries, payments after purchasing goods are being paid through the Bitcoin Lightning Network, as we saw in a store in Vietnam. A new homemade-style hamburger restaurant located in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, is in the neighborhood of Thao Dien. This place is famous for their excellent food and friendly atmosphere and good service. A few days ago, the restaurant decided to accept Bitcoin as payment through the Lightning Network.

  picture from

Thank you for providing such valuable information. I am interested in LN but first need to learn more about it and the information you provided is really valuable.

Bitwise published their 10 predictions for the 2024:

Bitwise The Year Ahead: 10 Crypto Predictions for 2024

I guess the most important one is the number 8:





There I see a massive role for Lighting Netowrk. The sole contender for a trustless, fast and cheap way of exchanging micropayments over the internet.

When we will use an AI to generate an image, the micropayment from this AI to the one providing animation of the above image. Will be done autonomously via LN.. or the payment to publish it online, or to add a soundtrack: all powered by LN

this very detailed article argues that the ln is not dead because of the high fees, but is used in other ways. it is used as a kind of settlement layer for custodial apps:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/lightning-is-doomed

I think that bitcoin was largely designed for this, including that game theory is likely going to have some defectors, if we are considering prisoner's dilemma kinds of situations, even though sometimes there are going to be seeming periods of cooperation, but from time to time, there also is going to likely be defections because I doubt anyone really wants a world government that is controlled by the other, and even if they are trying to forestall matters related to bitcoin, is also seems likely that shelling points are going to continue to revolve around bitcoin as the most trustworthy neutral of currencies, and even if governments cannot really control bitcoin as much as they would like, there are quite a fiew advantages to agreeing upon a neutral currency, and there is nothing that is even close to bitcoin in terms of a possible competitor.. what are they going to do settle in Ethereum.. that would be fucking retarded, even though some will likely give some lip services to their supposed enlightenment about various blockchains or whatever else might be their distracting talking points in which they are ongoingly failing/refusing to recognize king daddy bitcoin for the decentralized power that it is.

other things are the BOI
https://www.fincen.gov/boi

businesses as of january 2024 need to file the true human beneficiary owners of a company. meaning they cant just put virtual mailboxes and hire an accountant to be the businesses 'company correspondence' on file

shell companies and anonymous CEO's are about to have a shake up

It's almost as though it were a dick-swinging contest between USA and China.  Like it's somehow important for both of them to be seen as the "World Leader" by childishly stamping on free enterprise wherever they find it.  Whoever is the most draconian seemingly gets the bragging rights or something.  It's weird.

Overall any companies that are doing business in the USA or connected with USA residents are likely getting more and more nervous about various regulatory hurdles and perhaps even being a kind of atmosphere in which there is nearly no way to win, even if you believe that you are being fully cooperative and compliant.

Likely the USA is going to put itself at various disadvantages in regards to how stringent that they are, yet we cannot be sure how these matters are going to play out, in terms of abilities to try to operate outside of the USA and to NOT get touched by USA regulatory overreach. I am not really sure if Binance's mistake was to enter into the USA with its BinanceUS branch or if the USA might have still continued to pursue Binance in draconian ways, even if they had not established a USA division.   

Sometimes it might seem like damned if you do (cooperate and stay in the USA) and damned if you don't, even though if you don't stay in the USA, you might be able to try to hide for a bit longer - yet when any system is getting overly BIG, then US regulators seem to believe that it is fair game for them to regulate it, as if they were the world police. which just is an ongoing phenomena that have greater appearances of desperation in recent times, at least from the perspective of any of us trying to study and figure out what is going on with bitcoin in the USA as compared with other jurisdictions, and even that it seemed that in earlier times (with many incidents between 2013 and 2021), China was the seemingly overbearing regulator, but now the USA seems to be stepping in that role in a variety of ways, even though surely it is interesting to see various extents that some of the jurisdictions seem to be in line with each other and other ways that they seem to not want to align, whether it is aligning with the USA, aligning with China or maybe creating some other alliance.. Does El Salvador count as being somewhat out of the polar sides or not?

no need for conspiracy theories.. if you do your research you can find facts, not theories..

WoS does more then just a 'wallet' would. they offer other services too.. so WoS is not just a wallet its a money service business(MSB) also they are a VASP Virtual asset Service Provider

then look at what american regulations wants MSB and VASPs to do

Although it was observed that WalletOfSatoshi is set to have its record breaking month of processing 1.1 million payments through the Lightning Network, their team has announced that they will be leaving the United States. They didn't give any reason why.

Does anyone have any tin-foil hat conspiracy theories why they're leaving? Are dark market entities starting to use the Lightning Network for more privacy?