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Topic: Long term advance notice! - page 4. (Read 3685 times)

newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 24, 2019, 09:42:58 PM
Not BSV's theory.  Bitcoin's.

Perhaps people misunderstood what I meant.

I mean:

BSV is bitcoin.  Bitcoin is BSV.   BSV is the original bitcoin protocol  (or as as close as you get, right now - before undoing the remainder of the idiocy that BTC developers changed in the protocol)

BTC was forked away (segwit) from the original bitcoin protocol (which people refer today as BSV) in August 2017.

It was known as BCH for a while... but then BCH also forked away (and took the name with them).



@shelby, if we store our bitcoins in a legacy address (starts with a 1) are we OK if your hypothesis is true? Will our bitcoins be safe & usable on the original legacy immutable satoshi chain?

The "original chain" is BSV.    BTC diverged from the original chain in August 2017.

Small blocks doesn't change or stop this problem .... all it does is damage the usefulness of the blockchain.


Why are people still obsessed with this douchebag? Proof of keys or GTFO.

I'll give you a big hint... it is not primarily to do with possessing keys, or "being satoshi" .... and only "newbies" (also idiots) think "proof of keys" is not incredibly naive.   Anyone saying it is either stupid, or being disingenuous.

The people who matter are those who say things about bitcoin which are both useful and correct.

The opposing dynamic here seems to be the idea of an open market protocol that allows any block size to be decided variably


Yes... that is how the bitcoin protocol originally worked.    A cap was added to protect against an attack vector, which is no longer economically viable.    It was ALWAYS discussed by satoshi as something which would need to be increased (and ultimately removed) before it actually LIMITED the available blockspace below the current number of tx.

I believe Luke Jr. (a pool operator and Bitcoin dev)

... and one of the biggest idiots which ever lived.   Roll Eyes

And then Satoshi conveniently ignored pleas to raise the 1 MB before he conveniently suddenly disappeared when those pleas started to reach a crescendo again.

Not ignored.    However, only miners can effect the block size increasing.... by actually mining larger blocks.   Any one miner "going it alone" would be forked.
hero member
Activity: 1068
Merit: 523
August 24, 2019, 08:47:02 PM
@shelby, if we store our bitcoins in a legacy address (starts with a 1) are we OK if your hypothesis is true? Will our bitcoins be safe & usable on the original legacy immutable satoshi chain?
STT
legendary
Activity: 4004
Merit: 1428
☠ ☠ ☠ メメ
August 24, 2019, 07:47:32 PM
I'll read any story but doesnt mean I like it or believe any of it to be true.   The opposing dynamic here seems to be the idea of an open market protocol that allows any block size to be decided variably but also we have one person seemingly in control with which everyone else has to agree.    So if the market doesnt agree, when does that become accepted or is the word of one person continually repeated as the correct direction.
    So far BTC is the choice of the free market, I dont mind the idea of various protocols and ideas of what might work but I dont see why its always apparently in conflict with BTC.
Quote
Craig Wright (CSW) has also confirmed my aforementioned expectation of selling Core BTC for Tether and other USD pegged assets:
Didn't we already have something similar to this and it ended up a buying opportunity if anything.     A price established on low volume or with limited participation in the market is not especially accurate.    I can sell someone my bitcoin for 100 dollars like we went back a few years but even if it showed on the graph as a valid order transacted, it doesn't have significance and nobody cares for more then a moment.
   I'm sure there is more then 1 unit for sale but even so, the market overall doesn't decide a price by the views of the minority even if it drops short term.
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 24, 2019, 06:18:44 PM
Which, if I am not mistaken, essentially boils down to 'Satoshi always had a 1MB limit - it was in his head from the start, so it was operative from the start. Just trust me on this'.

No, you are incorrect.
hero member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 609
August 24, 2019, 05:48:24 PM
Why are people still obsessed with this douchebag? Proof of keys or GTFO. It is the simplest way to prove he is Satoshi. None of this foolish pageantry. Only newbies are hooked to his BSV bullshit.
For people who do know with CW bullshit propaganda will just simply ignore this but the sad fact that there are still newbies who are being mislead with this bullsh*t news around.
sr. member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 297
Bitcoin © Maximalist
August 24, 2019, 03:51:29 PM
Why are people still obsessed with this douchebag? Proof of keys or GTFO. It is the simplest way to prove he is Satoshi. None of this foolish pageantry. Only newbies are hooked to his BSV bullshit.
In case you are new to bitcoin, selling 821,050 bitcoins is some serious showing of "proof of keys".

BTW in a updated post he said he will donate the money from the sale of BTC to education facilities and maximize profits.
Quote
I have about 8 billion dollars’ worth of bitcoin and I’m donating them. Not as a joke. I’m giving them away. I want them to go to education. So my BTC is not going to go to me. I’ll keep my bitcoin — the bitcoin I created, the bitcoin I still work on. But the BTC, the whatever forks — I don’t really care — in 2020 I’m going to give them away…
legendary
Activity: 1647
Merit: 1012
Practising Hebrew before visiting Israel
August 24, 2019, 03:11:25 PM
Why are people still obsessed with this douchebag? Proof of keys or GTFO. It is the simplest way to prove he is Satoshi. None of this foolish pageantry. Only newbies are hooked to his BSV bullshit.
full member
Activity: 208
Merit: 103
August 24, 2019, 03:08:47 PM
Relaying a reply:

Which, if I am not mistaken, essentially boils down to 'Satoshi always had a 1MB limit - it was in his head from the start, so it was operative from the start. Just trust me on this'.

I ain't buying it. Insufficient evidence presented to support such a conclusion.

You’re mistaken. You failed to quote the upthread discussion I linked to from my prior post, in which I had explained that there was a defacto blocksize (i.e. a defacto Schelling point) limit coded in the default client software that most pools were using. I believe Luke Jr. (a pool operator and Bitcoin dev) may have been the main dissenter, as AFAIK he has always been advocating extremely small blocks (apparently originally even much smaller than 1 MB).

Satoshi only had to become explicit about the 1MB when the feuding about it reached a crescendo. And then Satoshi conveniently ignored pleas to raise the 1 MB before he conveniently suddenly disappeared when those pleas started to reach a crescendo again.

IOW, Bitcoin’s block size was essentially implicitly centralized  during the early years.


Although I'm sure this point will result in another interminable time sink of a sidebar. If it ends up -- as I expect -- seeming tangential, I'll just demur in advance.

And whose fault is that? If you and other readers would properly assimilate information, the discussion would not need to be repeated over and over again.

legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
August 24, 2019, 01:39:10 PM
Quote from: Shelby Moore
I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense.

Not BSV's theory.  Bitcoin's.

There was no block size cap in the original bitcoin protocol, and one was only added to mitigate an attack vector which is no longer economically viable.

Incorrect.

This was already discussed upthread. You refuse to read the thread and then pop in at the end of the thread to make statements which are incongruent with all the prior discussion.

The following linked post is where I had (upthread) quoted Satoshi and explained precisely why you are incorrect:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51390187

And here follows a link to the post where I replied in great detail on the subject in a response to @jbreher:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/long-term-advance-notice-5147618

For the record, the following is what I believe forms the core of Shelby's argument about the block size and immutability from the above quoted post:

See, here's the kicker, Shelby. Let's set aside the issue that -- given enough time and incentive -- the difference between hard and soft forks are merely academic. Set aside the issue that further increases to the max block size are impossible due to immutability. The fact is that the original protocol (i.e., satoshi's 0.1 protocol) -- which you refer to as immutable -- had no 1 MB max block size cap.

At 0.1 there was no block size limit in the protocol. The code (not the protocol) was limited in that no provision had yet been coded to allow a block to span multiple TCP segments. But even that limitation was well in excess of 1MB.

Satoshi was very, very, very clever. Which is to be expected because he is/was (a think tank of) the global elite.

He made it appear that he added the 1 MB later as an after thought, but of course he planned it from the beginning. He knew that Bitcoin would start out centralized and grow more decentralized. He knew that eventually the centralized block size limits as a default in the reference client would eventually be insufficient to contain the forces of profit motive.

I believe he absolutely never intended to raise the 1 MB. And that he absolutely intended for there to be a 1 MB limit from the inception when he launched Bitcoin. You are free to believe whatever you want.

Nevertheless the fact is that there was a de facto centralized limit on the block size even before he added the 1 MB hard cap to the code. It was the default in the client.

So what you claim to be an "immutable" protocol has already undergone a change in the exact dimension you claim it cannot.

Nope. When Satoshi wrote “v0.1” he was implicitly referring to what he was in centralized control over. The 1 MB cap was there from the start, in his head. He had the default which was lower than 1 MB and he was watching and waiting until he had to make his move. He made it. Then he disappeared. Simple as that.

Now I am not arguing against your claim of centralization pressure. But as pointed out above, the exact same pressures are being felt on all public PoW blockchains. Not only BSV, but BCH, BTC, 0.5.3, whatever.

Nope. Not on real, immutable Bitcoin.

Which, if I am not mistaken, essentially boils down to 'Satoshi always had a 1MB limit - it was in his head from the start, so it was operative from the start. Just trust me on this'.

I ain't buying it. Insufficient evidence presented to support such a conclusion.

Although I'm sure this point will result in another interminable time sink of a sidebar. If it ends up -- as I expect -- seeming tangential, I'll just demur in advance.
full member
Activity: 208
Merit: 103
August 24, 2019, 12:16:31 PM
Relaying as an unbiased messenger:

Quote
and pretend that

Oh, did I not acknowledge or reference what you said?!

I am not "pretending" anything.   Wink

You entirely ignore the highly detailed discussion upthread which refutes the pithy incorrect assertions you’re making. I will provide links below. In effect, you’re pretending that your pithy assertions weren’t already discussed and refuted earlier in the thread.

Quote from: Shelby Moore
I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense.

Not BSV's theory.  Bitcoin's.

There was no block size cap in the original bitcoin protocol, and one was only added to mitigate an attack vector which is no longer economically viable.

Incorrect.

This was already discussed upthread. You refuse to read the thread and then pop in at the end of the thread to make statements which are incongruent with all the prior discussion.

The following linked post is where I had (upthread) quoted Satoshi and explained precisely why you are incorrect:


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51390187

And here follows a link to the post where I replied in great detail on the subject in a response to @jbreher:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/long-term-advance-notice-5147618

And here follows a link to my first post in this thread (relayed by @Last of the V8s) wherein I explained that Craig Wright’s “long-term advance warning” is really about a SegWit attack against Core Bitcoin to restore the legacy Bitcoin with immutable block size. Craig isn’t tell you this, because he is using BSV as a decoy to deceive everyone as to the true aims of his plans and his globalist backers:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51306669

As for the big picture of what is going on, who created Bitcoin, and why they are using Craig Wright as their pawn to obtain global totalitarian control, read the following linked post (and then the entire linked thread):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52251343

In summary, Bitcoin will (after this current bounce) soon decline back to the “21 EMA” level (~$8500 or below as was the case in June 2013), then slowly climb over $13k by Jan 2020, and then the pattern of 2013 will repeat with a moonshot before the May 2020 halving event which will mimic the price action of 2013:

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/1QSGColK-My-Secret-Chart-For-When-To-To-Buy-Bitcoin-In-A-Bullish-Trend/
https://twitter.com/JacobCanfield/status/1164185278262718464/photo/1

The BTC price at the halving needs to be very high, so the mining difficulty is very high so that when Craig dumps 850,000 Core BTC (he will split his BTC before loading onto the exchanges and keep the legacy, immutable blocksize BTC) and then initiates the mining attack to force Core’s protocol to fork off, then as the price of BTC craters to below $1000, the Core protocol fork block chain (after being forked off from the legacy Bitcoin by the taking of the 6+ million BTC SegWit “anyone can spend” booty) will grind to a halt. Blocks will be found perhaps once a week. And the difficulty will not readjust for a year or years. At that point Core is dead and the exchanges will be fleeced and bankrupt. Massive chaos comin May 2020 if Craig keeps his promise.

The legacy, immutable blocksize Bitcoin will be the blockchain that survives and is eventually used to be the backing of the new global currency Facebook Libra, when the powers-that-be are ready to weaken the U.S. dollar and assert their resultant totalitarian control of global monetary policy (and the totalitarian political power that will provide them). You fools! We are going to be entirely enslaved in the 666 system.

I think you have no idea about my technological acumen. I for example wrote a four-part blog on blockchain consensus algorithm technologies:


https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/scaling-decentralization-security-of-distributed-ledgers

Lastly, metaphorically God is allowing Satan to run amok and enslave the people, because the people have forsaken God. They people of the world ridicule the wisdom in the Bible such as for example how Jesus purportedly said as recorded in Matthew 19 that we are married forever to every person we have sex with. We truly get the government (King) to lord over us as we deserve for our sins, c.f. the Lord’s warning 1 Samuel 8. Repent or ye shall eventually be wallowing in eternal hell.

newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 23, 2019, 09:19:57 PM
Quote
and pretend that

Oh, did I not acknowledge or reference what you said?!

I am not "pretending" anything.   Wink
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 23, 2019, 08:27:48 PM
Quote
I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense.

Not BSV's theory.  Bitcoin's.

There was no block size cap in the original bitcoin protocol, and one was only added to mitigate an attack vector which is no longer economically viable.
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
August 23, 2019, 08:09:47 PM
Relaying response.

Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk

Quote correctly without deleting portions so that readers can search and find the original discussion:

Let me tell you a parable:

[…]

Our protagonist, who had been a principal in the mining collective, was aware of the negative aspects of this protocol change. He wished to fight against this abomination. Having divested himself of mining power, however, he was absolutely powerless to do anything about the situation.

Our protagonist Craig Wright (a scammer[1]) has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes. Any reply you make has already been discussed upthread. You’ll just be beating a dead horse as there are no new arguments that can be made.

[…]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9sexx0/craig_wright_actually_did_completely_original/
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/06/15/craig-wright-sees-motion-to-compel-him-to-reveal-his-bitcoin-holdings-granted/

In that discussion (which preceded the post you quoted from), I had explained that BSV’s theory (of miner’s converging on an adaptive block size) is nonsense. Will never work. It only works if and while BSV mining is centralized.

Please do not reply to prior discussion and pretend that what you are writing wasn’t already refuted. That’s very disingenuous.


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool

Agreed. The SegWit attack is coming regardless if Craig’s group led the way.

Remember BSV is only a decoy. The legacy, immutable Bitcoin is what survives. Read this entire and the entire linked threads! Educate yourself.




Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?

Seems like it, but I'd expect him to do whatever works out best to maximise value at the time.   He doesn't need to do that just to "tank BTC", it will do that itself eventually.

Incorrect. The SegWit attack will begin at the May 2020 Bitcoin halving. Read my prior post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51584165

Remember BSV is only a decoy. The legacy, immutable Bitcoin is what survives. Read the entire thread!


newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 20, 2019, 04:49:51 AM
Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?

Seems like it, but I'd expect him to do whatever works out best to maximise value at the time.   He doesn't need to do that just to "tank BTC", it will do that itself eventually.
hero member
Activity: 1068
Merit: 523
August 20, 2019, 03:45:28 AM
This 2018 post will be entertaining when it happens.

Capital C for capitalism. BitCoin.

Is the plan that this all starts happening in January 2020?
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2520
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
August 20, 2019, 02:53:45 AM
Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool

There are a lot 'protocol minimalists'  out there Wink

Good protocols gettting a KISS from anyone who needs to code against it or analyse all the risks related to it
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
August 20, 2019, 12:12:08 AM
Quote
Craig Wright has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes.

Wow.   Try the opposite of this.

Restore original protocol
Blocksize decided by nobody but what the block-finding node is willing to risk


Although it isn't accurate to say "Craig Wright is doing it".  Plenty of people are "doing it", if Craig wasn't around there are many others who understand the real power of bitcoins, and all the things BTC did to remove that power.    Cool
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
June 24, 2019, 09:13:13 AM
Follow up:  

https://medium.com/@shelby_78386/change-to-a-diversity-of-beliefs-thus-not-a-schelling-point-21eddc03bdc1

Also see The rogue wave topic:  
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-rogue-wave-5157964


Craig Wright (CSW) has also confirmed my aforementioned expectation of selling Core BTC for Tether and other USD pegged assets:

http://web.archive.org/web/20190802201319/https://twitter.com/riverish333/status/1157272246890745856

So the SegWit donations taking restoration of legacy Bitcoin (and the attempted destruction of the forgery known as Bitcoin Core) is now entirely confirmed for the Bitcoin halving event in May 2020.


hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
June 17, 2019, 04:49:31 AM
Relaying a summary post.

LoL 7 pages of talk about an idiotic guy that says something..... (keep on thinking its the guy claimed to be Satoshi) Roll Eyes

Close thread never look back, by CSW!

You may end up eating your hat.

Dammit I did not want to reply to this thread again. But you essentially incorrectly summarized the thread and will cause new readers to think that there is not something much more important discussed in this thread than Craig Wright.

My posts in this thread have explained why Core BitcOn is a fake/forgery. And that there will eventually be huge donations of more than half of all the BTC from those who hold the Core fork of Bitcoin back to those miners who will mine Satoshi’s original, immutable, one-and-only actual Bitcoin. This “real Bitcoin” is not BSV nor BCH. It is the Bitcoin that never stopped and will never stop being the one-and-only Bitcoin. It is the Bitcoin with 1 MB blocks.



Also I am replying because I tried via private messages to get @jbreher and @pereira4 to clarify their debate, but apparently they’re unwilling to do so.

Essentially I believe the point @pereira4 is trying to make is that if the block sizes become too gargantuan then there is some size at which offline user clients would be unable to validate the blockchain because their computational power could not keep up with the rate at which new transactions are added to blocks. Each full node client (even if offline) has to validate every transaction in every block. That is what makes proof-of-work trustless, unlike proof-of-stake which is proof-of-nothing because due to the nothing-at-stake problem, validating clients had to actually be online always to know whether a blockchain was the “longest” chain.

I have not done the computations to determine what size of block would meet @pereira4’s presume criticism. That is not the main criticism against BSV.




My point is that you are bagholding an altcoin (BSV) from the look of your posts, and you are not understand the game theory at play when it comes to what makes Bitcoin valuable on the first place.

A Bitcoin which is ran on datacenters on both the auditing and mining part is basically fiat.

Not if there are multiple competing entities at each of these roles.

Sorry friend but you are provably incorrect.

Let me tell you a parable:

[…]

Our protagonist, who had been a principal in the mining collective, was aware of the negative aspects of this protocol change. He wished to fight against this abomination. Having divested himself of mining power, however, he was absolutely powerless to do anything about the situation.

Our protagonist Craig Wright (a scammer[1]) has attempted to modify the protocol of Bitcoin, converting it into a fiat with centrally controlled block sizes. Any reply you make has already been discussed upthread. You’ll just be beating a dead horse as there are no new arguments that can be made.

Anyway, you will learn your lesson the hard way, by losing your BTC. Enjoy.

Q.E.D.



[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9sexx0/craig_wright_actually_did_completely_original/
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/06/15/craig-wright-sees-motion-to-compel-him-to-reveal-his-bitcoin-holdings-granted/

Here follows a recent quote from the Trilema.com dude who claims to have 0.5 million BTC:

Quote
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-11#1917889
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/06/uk-wankers-imagineer-power-to-force-customer-due-diligence-into-bitcoin-client-software/ << Qntra -- UK Wankers Imagineer Power To Force "Customer Due Diligence" Into Bitcoin Client Software
mircea_popescu: i betcha the retards wil lactually do it.
BingoBoingo: Well, they have quite the gerontocracy
asciilifeform: anyone still recall the 1990s-era 'reich pgp' where castrated key bitness ?
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: by "the retards" i meant whatever's currently left holding the power ranger flag
mircea_popescu: there should be a short story about this, 1988 soviets don't spontaneously combust, but instead invade. find a mexican dude in all of new york
mircea_popescu: "are you the americans ?" "BY JOE I IS!"
BingoBoingo: Apparently they added another XY old woman to the "maintainer" team
asciilifeform hasn't looked at prb in years, wouldn't at this point be surprised by anything at all
mircea_popescu: kinda same here.
mircea_popescu: sorta "unity"/"ubuntu"/whatever intellectual-abandonware.
mircea_popescu: "america"

intellectual-abandonware!

The Trilema.com folks just hate the fact the idiots in collectivism always make the wrong decisions. The “power rangers” are Core/Blockstream and their fake BitcOn Core.

They do not care if these idiots and all their followers (which also includes all the idiots who think they have a vote in democracy) perish. Because they see that all the trouble they create.

Although I agree with the problem, I do not agree with their eugenics/genocide solution, because the power-law concentration is a “nobody left standing” phenomenon if not counteracted by the breakdown of order in nature.

My goal for a solution is to find technological means to enforce decentralization.

P.S. Someone should post that in the Long-term advance notice thread to remind them that the Trilema.com dude is still preparing to join in the destruction of Core BitcOn.

Readers for your edification about reality:

http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/

http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-piss-me-the-fuck-off-a-guide/

http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/

http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/

http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/


legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 12743
BTC + Crossfit, living life.
June 16, 2019, 11:38:44 AM
LoL 7 pages of talk about an idiotic guy that says something..... (keep on thinking its the guy claimed to be Satoshi) Roll Eyes

Close thread never look back, by CSW!
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