Topic: Make sure you pay your taxes to the government that spies on you! (Read 5567 times)

I believe that no-one has the right to strangle a person - regardless of whether bare hands are used. There may be cases where the death penalty is right - I don't really approve of it ever but that kind of casual violence is unacceptable.

So, you would not approve of a rape victim attempting to strangle her rapist, in self-defense?

Silly example. A right to self-defence means she can use reasonable force. If strangling is reasonable, then its OK. That's entirely different from wanting to have a right to strangle people who disagree with you.

Agreed, but do read what you said again:

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:57:05 AM

I believe that no-one has the right to strangle a person - regardless of whether bare hands are used.

You didn't qualify it with allowing defense before, why are you backpedaling now?

And you completely ignored the rest of my post. Please stop editing my posts to try and change the subject. Hypocrite, is what you are.

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:57:05 AM

If there is a dispute, I believe that any violence should follow a trial before a jury of your peers. The rules should be made by a body elected by your peers. The enforcement should be by an institution created by your peers. These 3 institutions should be separate. In other words, democracy with all its checks and balances.

And I seek to add one more check: Market competition. Those three institutions are not separate, and cannot be while they all get paid from the same pool of stolen funds, and report to the same hierarchy.

In order for those institutions to be separate, they must be paid for voluntarily by individuals, instead of taking their funds by force, and actually be separate, instead of part of a cartel enforced by violence.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

WoW has patched - I'm outta here for couple of days while we are updating Honorbuddy.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

I believe that no-one has the right to strangle a person - regardless of whether bare hands are used. There may be cases where the death penalty is right - I don't really approve of it ever but that kind of casual violence is unacceptable.

So, you would not approve of a rape victim attempting to strangle her rapist, in self-defense?

Silly example. A right to self-defence means she can use reasonable force. If strangling is reasonable, then its OK. That's entirely different from wanting to have a right to strangle people who disagree with you.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

I believe that no-one has the right to strangle a person - regardless of whether bare hands are used. There may be cases where the death penalty is right - I don't really approve of it ever but that kind of casual violence is unacceptable.

So, you would not approve of a rape victim attempting to strangle her rapist, in self-defense?

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:36:55 AM

If there is a dispute, I believe that any violence should follow a trial before a jury of your peers. The rules should be made by a body elected by your peers. The enforcement should be by an institution created by your peers. These 3 institutions should be separate. In other words, democracy with all its checks and balances.

And I seek to add one more check: Market competition. Those three institutions are not separate, and cannot be while they all get paid from the same pool of stolen funds, and report to the same hierarchy.

In order for those institutions to be separate, they must be paid for voluntarily by individuals, instead of taking their funds by force, and actually be separate, instead of part of a cartel enforced by violence.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

I feel you and crytoanarchist have demonstrated the value of a state having a monopoly on violence.

Hardly.
Don't you think it would be best if the agency preventing you from being robbed didn't have the ability to rob you?

I believe that no-one has the right to strangle a person - regardless of whether bare hands are used. There may be cases where the death penalty is right - I don't really approve of it ever but that kind of casual violence is unacceptable.

If there is a dispute, I believe that any violence should follow a trial before a jury of your peers. The rules should be made by a body elected by your peers. The enforcement should be by an institution created by your peers. These 3 institutions should be separate. In other words, democracy with all its checks and balances.

That's slightly off topic to the thread which was whether to pay taxes to pay for all of this. I believe that part of public expenditure is generally money well spent.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 11:32:29 AM

I feel you and crytoanarchist have demonstrated the value of a state having a monopoly on violence.

Hardly.
Don't you think it would be best if the agency preventing you from being robbed didn't have the ability to rob you?

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:26:09 AM

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 11:22:30 AM

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:19:04 AM

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

You don't know what that means. You have said you will attack me, using violence, because I disagree with you. You backed up crytoanarchist when he said he would strangle me with his bare hands. You make weasel assertions that my words go "beyond disagreement" and that entitles you to be violent.

Pasting wise Latin sayings doesn't mean you understand them. There is no excuse for you using violence in pursuit of your political goals.

Says the man whose political goals are violence.

Tell you what, Hawker. I apologize for any confusion. I would never attack you simply for disagreeing with me. I was simply pointing out that your advocacy for a violent monopoly is essentially a threat to peaceful people who disagree with you.

Apology accepted. I was sad to see you go there.

Thank you for the demonstration of why violently resisting the state is futile.
Even though they are the aggressors, it's a fight you cannot win.
Now, can we please move on?

I feel you and crytoanarchist have demonstrated the value of a state having a monopoly on violence. Grin

I've moved on...feel free to have last word.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 11:22:30 AM

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:19:04 AM

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

You don't know what that means. You have said you will attack me, using violence, because I disagree with you. You backed up crytoanarchist when he said he would strangle me with his bare hands. You make weasel assertions that my words go "beyond disagreement" and that entitles you to be violent.

Pasting wise Latin sayings doesn't mean you understand them. There is no excuse for you using violence in pursuit of your political goals.

Says the man whose political goals are violence.

Tell you what, Hawker. I apologize for any confusion. I would never attack you simply for disagreeing with me. I was simply pointing out that your advocacy for a violent monopoly is essentially a threat to peaceful people who disagree with you.

Apology accepted. I was sad to see you go there.

Thank you for the demonstration of why violently resisting the state is futile.
Even though they are the aggressors, it's a fight you cannot win.
Now, can we please move on?

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:19:04 AM

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

You don't know what that means. You have said you will attack me, using violence, because I disagree with you. You backed up crytoanarchist when he said he would strangle me with his bare hands. You make weasel assertions that my words go "beyond disagreement" and that entitles you to be violent.

Pasting wise Latin sayings doesn't mean you understand them. There is no excuse for you using violence in pursuit of your political goals.

Says the man whose political goals are violence.

Tell you what, Hawker. I apologize for any confusion. I would never attack you simply for disagreeing with me. I was simply pointing out that your advocacy for a violent monopoly is essentially a threat to peaceful people who disagree with you.

Apology accepted. I was sad to see you go there.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

You don't know what that means. You have said you will attack me, using violence, because I disagree with you. You backed up crytoanarchist when he said he would strangle me with his bare hands. You make weasel assertions that my words go "beyond disagreement" and that entitles you to be violent.

Pasting wise Latin sayings doesn't mean you understand them. There is no excuse for you using violence in pursuit of your political goals.

Says the man whose political goals are violence.

Tell you what, Hawker. I apologize for any confusion. I would never attack you simply for disagreeing with me. I was simply pointing out that your advocacy for a violent monopoly is essentially a threat to peaceful people who disagree with you.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:09:02 AM

...snip...
If I can rightfully violently remove you from my presence, then you're on my property. If we're not on my property when you do this, I will go to my property, or ask the property owner to remove you. Will you chase me there, or re-enter the property, to continue to force yourself on me?

Again with the transparent attempt to change subject from your assertion that you will use violence if I disagree with you. And you use the word "rightfully" as if there was some excuse for your resorting to violence.

Your problem is that your ideas don't convince so you are considering violence. You are not the first person to get frustrated that living in a democracy means he can't have his own way.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

You don't know what that means. You have said you will attack me, using violence, because I disagree with you. You backed up crytoanarchist when he said he would strangle me with his bare hands. You make weasel assertions that my words go "beyond disagreement" and that entitles you to be violent.

Pasting wise Latin sayings doesn't mean you understand them. There is no excuse for you using violence in pursuit of your political goals.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: AzureEngineer on May 21, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Vim Vi Repellere Licet.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 11:04:48 AM

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:00:59 AM

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 10:59:50 AM

...snip...

Quote from: myrkul on May 21, 2013, 11:00:59 AM

You posted in support of cryptoanarchist when he threatened to strangle me. You have never made clear just how violent you plan to get yourself. What are we looking at here? Kneecapping, necklacing, house burnt down? Just how violent do you feel entitled to be?

Depends on how much you resisted being removed from my presence. Most likely, just a toss out on your ear. I'm sure you're familiar with being tossed out of an establishment. Of course, If you continued to press the issue, I would be forced to conclude that advocating violence by proxy was not enough, and you were graduating to doing violence to me yourself.

So you start off with simple pushing and shoving and if you are string enough, you will throw me. I won't back down in my belief in democracy. So how far will you go?

I don't want you to back down in your belief in might makes right. Just in forcing that view on me. If you leave, and don't come back, that will be the end of it.

I'm not going anywhere. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

You're refusing to leave my property?
I've kicked you off, and you return, continuing to advocate your violent society?

Stop changing the subject. We never discussed it being on your property. You quote was that I was within your fist range.

I have never been on your property. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

If I can rightfully violently remove you from my presence, then you're on my property. If we're not on my property when you do this, I will go to my property, or ask the property owner to remove you. Will you chase me there, or re-enter the property, to continue to force yourself on me?

AzureEngineer

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

I find it quite odd the person with the "violent society" is being pushed/shoved/choked etc. by the "peaceful" person.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 10:59:50 AM

...snip...

Quote from: Hawker on May 21, 2013, 10:59:50 AM

You posted in support of cryptoanarchist when he threatened to strangle me. You have never made clear just how violent you plan to get yourself. What are we looking at here? Kneecapping, necklacing, house burnt down? Just how violent do you feel entitled to be?

Depends on how much you resisted being removed from my presence. Most likely, just a toss out on your ear. I'm sure you're familiar with being tossed out of an establishment. Of course, If you continued to press the issue, I would be forced to conclude that advocating violence by proxy was not enough, and you were graduating to doing violence to me yourself.

So you start off with simple pushing and shoving and if you are string enough, you will throw me. I won't back down in my belief in democracy. So how far will you go?

I don't want you to back down in your belief in might makes right. Just in forcing that view on me. If you leave, and don't come back, that will be the end of it.

I'm not going anywhere. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

You're refusing to leave my property?
I've kicked you off, and you return, continuing to advocate your violent society?

Stop changing the subject. We never discussed it being on your property. You quote was that I was within your fist range.

I have never been on your property. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

...snip...

You posted in support of cryptoanarchist when he threatened to strangle me. You have never made clear just how violent you plan to get yourself. What are we looking at here? Kneecapping, necklacing, house burnt down? Just how violent do you feel entitled to be?

Depends on how much you resisted being removed from my presence. Most likely, just a toss out on your ear. I'm sure you're familiar with being tossed out of an establishment. Of course, If you continued to press the issue, I would be forced to conclude that advocating violence by proxy was not enough, and you were graduating to doing violence to me yourself.

So you start off with simple pushing and shoving and if you are string enough, you will throw me. I won't back down in my belief in democracy. So how far will you go?

I don't want you to back down in your belief in might makes right. Just in forcing that view on me. If you leave, and don't come back, that will be the end of it.

I'm not going anywhere. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

You're refusing to leave my property?
I've kicked you off, and you return, continuing to advocate your violent society?

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

...snip...

You posted in support of cryptoanarchist when he threatened to strangle me. You have never made clear just how violent you plan to get yourself. What are we looking at here? Kneecapping, necklacing, house burnt down? Just how violent do you feel entitled to be?

Depends on how much you resisted being removed from my presence. Most likely, just a toss out on your ear. I'm sure you're familiar with being tossed out of an establishment. Of course, If you continued to press the issue, I would be forced to conclude that advocating violence by proxy was not enough, and you were graduating to doing violence to me yourself.

So you start off with simple pushing and shoving and if you are string enough, you will throw me. I won't back down in my belief in democracy. So how far will you go?

I don't want you to back down in your belief in might makes right. Just in forcing that view on me. If you leave, and don't come back, that will be the end of it.

I'm not going anywhere. I do advocate we live in a democratic society but I haven't hurt you or threatened you. You've done your pushing, shoving and throwing. What's next?

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

...snip...

You posted in support of cryptoanarchist when he threatened to strangle me. You have never made clear just how violent you plan to get yourself. What are we looking at here? Kneecapping, necklacing, house burnt down? Just how violent do you feel entitled to be?

Depends on how much you resisted being removed from my presence. Most likely, just a toss out on your ear. I'm sure you're familiar with being tossed out of an establishment. Of course, If you continued to press the issue, I would be forced to conclude that advocating violence by proxy was not enough, and you were graduating to doing violence to me yourself.

So you start off with simple pushing and shoving and if you are string enough, you will throw me. I won't back down in my belief in democracy. So how far will you go?

I don't want you to back down in your belief in might makes right. Just in forcing that view on me. If you leave, and don't come back, that will be the end of it.

Hawker

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1001

...snip...