The so-called recording between terrorists, presented earlier by Kiev is a fake, and was recorded the day before the disaster:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=895343350481178
Topic: Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border - page 29. (Read 51934 times)
July 18, 2014, 09:25:32 AM
July 18, 2014, 09:21:19 AM
Yes, it is. As Balthazar said, it's several trucks on wheels making up a missile complex:
Of course, if you consider 3 vehicles a "complex". It's hardly NORAD, though. There is bound to be someone among the rebels who's been in the army and knows enough to get it up and running. Unfortunately they don't have the support needed to know if it's friend or foe.
July 18, 2014, 09:20:46 AM
Malaysia Airlines plane crash: world demands answers from Russia
<< US criticises Kremlin's arming of rebels and Hillary Clinton says "Putin has gone too far" after 298 die in missile strike. >>
July 18, 2014, 09:09:44 AM
This is the sort of thing than can start a major war.Rebels fighting against Ukraine and supplied by Russia are the suspects. Bodies reported all over the ground for miles. What a tragedy. But how can Russia afford to arm the rebels when the country is suffering from crushing sanctions?
The Russian rebels deny they are Russian or funded by Russians and yes, this act by rebels could justify Russia invading Ukraine just like rebels in crimea justified their takeover of crimea and the forced election. July 18, 2014, 09:04:19 AM
This is the sort of thing than can start a major war.Rebels fighting against Ukraine and supplied by Russia are the suspects. Bodies reported all over the ground for miles. What a tragedy. But how can Russia afford to arm the rebels when the country is suffering from crushing sanctions?
The Russian rebels deny they are Russian or funded by Russians and yes, this act by rebels could justify Russia invading Ukraine just like rebels in crimea justified their takeover of crimea and the forced election. 
July 18, 2014, 09:03:14 AM
Crash claims 100 top AIDS researchers heading to Melbourne
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-researchers-heading-melbourne-believed-dead-mh17
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-researchers-heading-melbourne-believed-dead-mh17
July 18, 2014, 08:59:31 AM
Telling me that my father is an idiot it's not a good way to start a discussion. However, your point of view on anti-aircraft missile complexes is pretty funny, but this topic's purpose is far away from entertainment. 
I don't really care how clever you need to think your dad is. It's not a "missile complex", it's a tank or truck with rockets and support equipment mounted on it. It needs to be able to be ready to fire in pretty much seconds, so it has to be easy to use.
Yes, it is. As Balthazar said, it's several trucks on wheels making up a missile complex:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%F3%EA-%CC1-2
http://vorotila.ru/Item67754/BukM12-zenitno-raketnyy-kompleks-sredney-dalnosti
This is Buk:
And this is Buk:
Here is the complex:
July 18, 2014, 08:59:06 AM
CNN reporting that senior US intelligence officials have confirmed the aircraft was intentionally shot down by a surface to air missile system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LUueumxxA#t=53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LUueumxxA#t=53
July 18, 2014, 08:57:46 AM
This is the sort of thing than can start a major war.Rebels fighting against Ukraine and supplied by Russia are the suspects. Bodies reported all over the ground for miles. What a tragedy. But how can Russia afford to arm the rebels when the country is suffering from crushing sanctions?
July 18, 2014, 08:52:48 AM
Telling me that my father is an idiot it's not a good way to start a discussion. However, your point of view on anti-aircraft missile complexes is pretty funny, but this topic's purpose is far away from entertainment.
I don't really care how clever you need to think your dad is. It's not a "missile complex", it's a tank or truck with rockets and support equipment mounted on it. It needs to be able to be ready to fire in pretty much seconds, so it has to be easy to use.
July 18, 2014, 08:48:03 AM
They will cover it until it is known what happened. CNN's reporting on any given topic is negatively correlated with the amount of accurate information available on that topic.
Sounds about right, also sounds about right for our other major TV news networks like MSNBC and Fox; even CBS and ABC even if they have a decent program here and there. It was at least refuted today by Ukrainian Prosecutor General:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405666465
In other news: Two NATO radar AWACS planes were in the air in Poland and Romania at the moment of the disaster.
http://itar-tass.com/proisshestviya/1327831
However the planes might have been too far away to see what happened.
July 18, 2014, 08:43:17 AM
They will cover it until it is known what happened. CNN's reporting on any given topic is negatively correlated with the amount of accurate information available on that topic.
Sounds about right, also sounds about right for our other major TV news networks like MSNBC and Fox; even CBS and ABC even if they have a decent program here and there. 
July 18, 2014, 08:37:10 AM
Because having missiles isn't enough to use them. It's not a crossbow, you need 1-2 years of appropriate education before you'll be able to take down anything.
You probably just made that number up, or at best heard it somewhere and believe it because it fits with your opinion. I've been in the army myself, and although I don't know anything about this system in particular, I know that this kind of stand alone equipment is made to be usable by idiots with very little training. The army will make everyone repeat at the same tasks for months, but the basic functionality is learned in days or even hours.
BUK system is a complex of 4 units
- management unit
- radar station
- firing unit
- charge unit
It is doubtful that idiots can teach this in the short term. Also doubtful that anybody will provide them with a missile complex, which worth over $3 million. Of course it's possible that they've have stolen one of units owned by ukrainian army... But they need to have all of units fully operational, otherwise it will be nothing more than costly junk.
July 18, 2014, 08:33:53 AM
Until this gets sorted out it's just theories, but if it comes for the pro-Russian separatists to be responsible it may mean the end of the Ukrainian war. Moscow won't be able to keep assist the separatists and on their own they won't be standing long.
Applying a Texas accent: "That's the plan, m'boy."
Some news from Russian sources:
Prime Minister of People's Republic of Donetsk cannot confirm finding of the "black boxes" (which in reality, by the way, are orange). Experts from OSCE are working on the ground, as well as Ukrainian specialists. PRD is conducting negotiations to allow relatives of the diseased to come to the crash site.
http://www.interfax.ru/world/386594
Russian Ministry of Defence reports registering activity from Ukrainian battery "Kupol" (Dome), which is a part of Buk-M1 system:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/18/buk/
An Australian family lost relatives in both Malaysian Airlines disasters:
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2014/07/18/n_6320857.shtml
http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukraine-near-russian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html
July 18, 2014, 08:29:44 AM
They will cover it until it is known what happened. CNN's reporting on any given topic is negatively correlated with the amount of accurate information available on that topic.
Sounds about right, also sounds about right for our other major TV news networks like MSNBC and Fox; even CBS and ABC even if they have a decent program here and there. July 18, 2014, 08:28:18 AM
Because having missiles isn't enough to use them. It's not a crossbow, you need 1-2 years of appropriate education before you'll be able to take down anything.
You probably just made that number up, or at best heard it somewhere and believe it because it fits with your opinion. I've been in the army myself, and although I don't know anything about this system in particular, I know that this kind of stand alone equipment is made to be usable by idiots with very little training. The army will make everyone repeat at the same tasks for months, but the basic functionality is learned in days or even hours.
Army in which I was serving doesn't have Buk, but I had a chance to chat with some guys working with S-125 Neva medium range SAM. IIRC, their training starting from first theory lessons to live missile launch took somewhere between 4-5 months. Buk is newer and probably simpler but it's still impossible to learn to properly use it so fast. Unless, of course, rebels had people who were already trained.
Anyway, 1-2 years of education doesn't make sense either. SAMs are sophisticated and relatively complicated combat systems, but not *that* much.
July 18, 2014, 08:27:59 AM
They will cover it until it is known what happened. CNN's reporting on any given topic is negatively correlated with the amount of accurate information available on that topic.
July 18, 2014, 08:26:30 AM
At least they know where it is this time. I wonder how long CNN will cover it for. ....remember a few months ago another airplane who was going to Malaysia disappear
If it leads to war, then for at least several years afterwards. This is like the incident with Archduke Franz Ferdinand which lead to World War I. That is, if it was an actual missile attack by the pro-Russian separatists. 
July 18, 2014, 08:20:15 AM
Until this gets sorted out it's just theories, but if it comes for the pro-Russian separatists to be responsible it may mean the end of the Ukrainian war. Moscow won't be able to keep assist the separatists and on their own they won't be standing long.
July 18, 2014, 08:00:24 AM
Named your information generators. -----Russia tooday, and Girkin in a contact.- (VK ).....))).
My sources of information are actions by Nuland, Biden, Obama. You do know that actions speak stronger than words?
Now, on to more real actions of a real country:
Lavrov: Russia won’t take control of Malaysian plane’s black boxes
http://rt.com/news/173820-ukraine-plane-black-boxes/
Quote
Moscow has no plans to seize the flight recorders from the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which crashed in eastern Ukraine on Thursday, Sergey Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, said.
The seizure of flight records would violate international law as it’s up to relevant international agencies to investigate of the incident, he explained.
The seizure of flight records would violate international law as it’s up to relevant international agencies to investigate of the incident, he explained.
Russia, unlike US, follows the international law, sadly almost always to its own detriment. But for Russia, honour comes first.
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