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Topic: Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border - page 30. (Read 51960 times)

legendary
Activity: 3640
Merit: 1209
A Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -8.89% ....

"All roads lead to the Russians to some degree," said a U.S. official.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-over-ukrainian-airspace-1405612373?mod=trending_now_1

And that freedom fighters say they didn't and couldn't shoot that plane is disregarded, while Ukrainians' claim is takes as an absolute truth. They also have nothing to gain from it.
In any case, I'd say that:

"All roads lead to the Americans to some degree,"

or they wouldn't be commenting and laying the blame even before the investigations is launched. Russia doesn't, playing by the rules.

Named your information generators. -----Russia tooday, and Girkin  in a contact.- (VK ).....))).
You  in general try to prove that international terrorists  GIRKIN,   Bezler (безлер) being the agents of GRU Russia, and FSB ,, citizens of russia-----  innocent sheeps.
And they  are political figures,on a level  with Obama or  or Poroshenko....!!!!!
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
Because having missiles isn't enough to use them. It's not a crossbow, you need 1-2 years of appropriate education before you'll be able to take down anything.

You probably just made that number up, or at best heard it somewhere and believe it because it fits with your opinion. I've been in the army myself, and although I don't know anything about this system in particular, I know that this kind of stand alone equipment is made to be usable by idiots with very little training. The army will make everyone repeat at the same tasks for months, but the basic functionality is learned in days or even hours.
sr. member
Activity: 334
Merit: 250
Ukraine however had previously shot down a Russian plane - in 2001 - apparently by mistake, using the same type of rocket which was evidently used in this case.

Russian airliner in this case has been shot down by Ukrainian S-200 long range missile. We don't know what SAM type brought down Malasyian aircraft. Yes, Kiev claims it was Buk, but it may be because they knew that rebels have captured some of those couple of weeks ago. Convenient, isn't it?

On the other hand, fact that rebels were bragging about those captured Buk launchers and now they're saying that they don't have anything other than MANPADS, is also highly suspicious.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
This is true. The whole story looks like one of those conspiracy theories. Everybody rushed to blame Russia and the separatists, although they did not have a capability to do such thing.

How do you know you didn't create a conspiracy theory right there? According to ITAR-TASS the rebels have earlier claimed to have the necessary missiles. Why do you believe the claims the rebels have made after the fact, and implicitly discard the ones they made before they understood the consequences of this event?
Because having missiles isn't enough to use them. It's not a crossbow, you need 1-2 years of appropriate education before you'll be able to take down anything. I think it's clear for anybody who have some brain inside his skull.
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
This is true. The whole story looks like one of those conspiracy theories. Everybody rushed to blame Russia and the separatists, although they did not have a capability to do such thing.

How do you know you didn't create a conspiracy theory right there? According to ITAR-TASS the rebels have earlier claimed to have the necessary missiles. Why do you believe the claims the rebels have made after the fact, and implicitly discard the ones they made before they understood the consequences of this event?
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1824
Here you can watch Unconfirmed video of Malaysian MH17 plane being shot down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q2__0Lo0bo
This is not the 777 it is the first plane they shot down, Ukrainian army AN-26

OK sorry my mistake.
This video is just published on main Croatian news online portal and I copied this info here believing that is authentic.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
And I highly doubt it crashed, some Asshole with a surface to air missile probably thought it would be funny to shoot down a civilian aircraft. ...

No. Boeing 777 flying at 10,200 metres (35,000 feet) can't be shot down with MANPADS such as Igla or Strela. It requires either sophisticated SAM batteries or air-to-air missiles fired from fighter jets.

This is true. The whole story looks like one of those conspiracy theories. Everybody rushed to blame Russia and the separatists, although they did not have a capability to do such thing. Ukraine however had previously shot down a Russian plane - in 2001 - apparently by mistake, using the same type of rocket which was evidently used in this case.

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
In the meantime:
Questions over why Malaysian plane flew over Ukrainian warzone
http://rt.com/news/173792-malaysian-plane-diverted-warzone/

Quote
“There are still question to answer like why this plane was flying over that area, whether it was on the correct flight path. It was flying over a war zone where missiles have been fired. It’s a war zone, so why was it flying over there?” blogger and writer Neil Clark asked in an interview with RT.

...

 “MAS had used this route for years and it had always been safe. Fifteen out of 16 Asean Pacific airlines and even some airlines from Europe fly that route,” Malaysian Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said at a media conference on Friday. “There were no last minute instructions to change the flight path to a different route."  

And the image of flight paths:



Also, read this Op-Edge!
Why was MH17 flying through a war zone where 10 aircraft have been shot down?
http://rt.com/op-edge/173788-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/
This Op-Edge takes a bigger picture perspective on the events.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1001
Energy is Wealth
Here you can watch Unconfirmed video of Malaysian MH17 plane being shot down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q2__0Lo0bo
This is not the 777 it is the first plane they shot down, Ukrainian army AN-26
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1824
Here you can watch Unconfirmed video of Malaysian MH17 plane being shot down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q2__0Lo0bo
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
Before this article gets also deleted:

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

The proof that the rebels had indeed a Buk missile defense system.

Quote
DONETSK, June 29, /ITAR-TASS/. Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.


Why are they now claiming they don't have it ?

Because if Ukraine can prove the rebels didn't take it from them, it means they must have gotten it from Russia.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
US removed the page of the Spanish air traffic controller from Twitter, then edited them and reposted:
http://zergulio.livejournal.com/1770705.html

The words on the Twitter page today do not correspond what was screen captured by people yesterday. Why would US need to remove evidence?

People now comment that they hope the controller himself would not get removed (killed) to erase evidence of Ukrainian/US involvement.

The Spanish controller seems to have managed to posted that he evacuated from Ukraine together with his family.



Someone using the s-word again:
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/
Quote
10:30 GMT:

It is too “premature to draw conclusions” before the forensic teams have investigated the wreckage of the plane, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said.

"Regarding sanctions, I'd like to point out that the events with the plane, as far as I remember, were not even 24 hours ago and at the moment we need to sort out an independent investigation,” she added.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
Party A will blame Party B. Party B will blame Party A.

In war, the truth is always the first casualty.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Jarema stated that the resistanse did not capture any SAMs like "Buk" of S-300:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405666465
Quote
«После того, как был сбит пассажирский самолет, военные доложили президенту, что у ополченцев нет наших ракетных комплексов „Бук“ и С300. Захвата этого вооружения не было», — приводит заявление Яремы ИТАР-ТАСС.



Ukrainian MSM reported yesterday about 80 children and American citizens on board. According to the Airline, there were 3 children and no Americans. So those were another example of fabrication from Ukraine:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405665043



PRD established headquarters to investigate the crash:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405669094



Putin: Thorough investigation of Malaysian airliner tragedy in Ukraine required
http://rt.com/news/173744-putin-ukraine-plane-russia/



Gruesome images of Malaysia MH17 plane crash in east Ukraine appear online
http://rt.com/news/173644-photos-plane-malaysia-crash/



Tragic history of passenger planes shot down
http://rt.com/news/173680-passenger-planes-shot-down/



Ukrainian Buk battery radar was operational when Malaysian plane downed - Moscow
http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/

Quote
“The Russian equipment detected throughout July 17 the activity of a Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk],” the ministry said in a statement.



Seems that the information war continues:

Quote
In his tweets, the Spanish air controller working in Ukraine revealed information regarding Ukrainian air fighter following the airliner minutes before the downing. Now his account was deleted!



A very detailed video with transcript:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukraine-near-russian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html

Quote

6:42pm: "The airspace the aircraft was traversing was unrestricted. Fifteen out of 16 airlines in the associations of the Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine. In the hours before the incident, a number of passenger aircraft from different carriers used the same route," said Malaysia's Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said.

He also listed the following fatalities, indicating there were still 20 people whose nationalities remain to be verified:

- 173 Dutch
- 44 Malaysians
- 27 Australian (although Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has updated this to 28)
- 12 Indonesians
- 9 from the United Kingdom
- 4 Germans
- 4 Belgians
- 3 Filipinos
- 1 Canadian
- 1 from New Zealand

Quote
4:32pm: Foreign Minister Julie Bishop confirmed the number of Australians killed in the MH17 tragedy had risen to 28 after a meeting with Russian ambassador Vladimir Morozov in Sydney on Friday afternoon, reports SMH State Political Correspondent Sean Nicholls.

Ms Bishop said she told the ambassador that the Australian people and government were "devastated by the news".

"I asked him for Russia’s explanation as to how a commercial plane could come down from that altitude over eastern Ukraine," she said.

"I asked that Russia give its unqualified support for a full, thorough, credible, international, independent investigation into the downing of this flight."

Ms Bishop also sought Russia's "unqualified support" for UN security council resolutions to "facilitate such an investigation".

"What we intend to establish through the UN security council is an investigation that will get to the bottom of who is responsible for this unspeakable crime and that they be brought to account."

She also sought support for seeking a ceasefire to retrieve the bodies and debris relevant to the investigation.

Mr Morozov "provided that unqualified support … and assured me Russia would do what it could to find those responsible".

Ms Bishop said the ambassador denied Russian involvement in the incident.



Given the above, the following statement from Kiev seems a bit panicky:
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/
Quote
10:15 GMT:

The black boxes from the Malaysian plane should remain on the territory of Ukraine, said a statement from the Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry. The transportation of the boxes abroad is illegal, it added.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1001
Energy is Wealth
This shows all plane position live, easten Ukraine is now bare. Clicking on planes gives details.
http://www.flightradar24.com/51.41,32.5/3
legendary
Activity: 3640
Merit: 1209
 Russian-made mobile air-defense missile appears to have struck the Malaysian Airlines (MAS) jetliner that crashed in eastern Ukraine, according to U.S. military and intelligence officials.

While the matter is still being reviewed, evidence so far indicates that the plane was hit by a weapons system known as the SA-11 or Buk, according to four officials who asked for anonymity because of the continuing investigation. The surface-to-air missiles, widely deployed in Eastern Europe, are mounted on vehicles that resemble tanks.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/missile-hit-malaysian-jet-in-ukraine-u-s-officials-say.html

In international laws  investigate crash ..., only Ukraine, Маlaysia and representative office boeing, but not Russia. And terrorists sent black boxes exactly in Russia.!!
sr. member
Activity: 334
Merit: 250
the flight data recorder has been sent to Moscow. Soon, we'll have answers to our questions.

I am not sure how the black box can reveal who shot down the plane. I mean, they will pull out the data showing catastrophic damage as well as the exact time and location of interception (which is already pretty much known), but what else...? I tend to think that finding remains of the missile may be a lot more important. What if it turns out that it was S-300, S-200 or aircraft launched weapon, all of those definitely unavailable to rebels?


It's already outdated (and possibly Ukrainian-fabricated news). Rebels officialy denied that they shot down the airliner so we'll have to wait for the results of investigation.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
A Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -8.89% plane carrying 283 passengers and 15 crew crashed Thursday in the battle-torn east Ukraine region of Donetsk, where U.S. intelligence agencies say it was struck by a ground-to-air missile.

The U.S. agencies are divided over whether the missile was launched by the Russian military or by pro-Russia separatist rebels, who officials say lack the expertise on their own to bring down a commercial airline in midflight. Ukraine, which also has sophisticated antiaircraft weaponry, said it hadn't shot any such missiles at any time during the conflict.

"All roads lead to the Russians to some degree," said a U.S. official.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact-with-plane-over-ukrainian-airspace-1405612373?mod=trending_now_1

And that freedom fighters say they didn't and couldn't shoot that plane is disregarded, while Ukrainians' claim is takes as an absolute truth. They also have nothing to gain from it.
In any case, I'd say that:

"All roads lead to the Americans to some degree,"

or they wouldn't be commenting and laying the blame even before the investigations is launched. Russia doesn't, playing by the rules.
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