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Topic: Marketplace trust - page 30. (Read 83249 times)

legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 23, 2013, 01:17:42 AM
#53
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
Trust someone else instead and theymos would be removed.


I did but what if I never done any trades with anyone, I shouldn't be trusting anyone technically not even theymos.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 102
May 23, 2013, 01:12:50 AM
#52
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?

hmmm ... that's true - I agree in that case.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 23, 2013, 01:08:08 AM
#51
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
May 23, 2013, 01:12:09 AM
#51
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
Trust someone else instead and theymos would be removed.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 23, 2013, 01:10:25 AM
#50
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 102
May 23, 2013, 01:09:18 AM
#49
I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
May 23, 2013, 01:06:59 AM
#48
In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
Considering it's solely used for what opinions you see, I would say it's the former rather than the latter (unless you trust their opinions too).
That's what I figured, thanks!
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
May 23, 2013, 01:02:09 AM
#47
In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
Considering it's solely used for what opinions you see, I would say it's the former rather than the latter (unless you trust their opinions too).
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015
May 23, 2013, 12:53:13 AM
#46
In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
May 23, 2013, 12:37:31 AM
#45
The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

Seems reasonable and a move in the right direction imo. However I would request you be open about who you trust since this is the default setting.

If you want to force people to trust who you trust and keep their names secret then please let all all opt in to the program.

I find it shocking that you are forcing most people, who do not understand the system to trust these secret people you trust.

I think that is a more than fair request, we do not need any form of secret police here.

Thanks
You can see it in the trust page. theymos currently trusts:

            Maged
            OgNasty
            John (John K.)
            Tomatocage
            BadBear
            BCB
            TradeFortress
vip
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
May 23, 2013, 12:36:22 AM
#44
The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

Seems reasonable and a move in the right direction imo. However I would request you be open about who you trust since this is the default setting.

If you want to force people to trust who you trust and keep their names secret then please let all all opt in to the program.

I find it shocking that you are forcing most people, who do not understand the system to trust these secret people you trust.

I think that is a more than fair request, we do not need any form of secret police here.

Thanks
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
May 23, 2013, 12:31:41 AM
#43
How is the first score calculated? Some users (eg John) has very high + scores, but the overall trust rating is still 0.

Does it weigh the feedback age very heavily?
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
May 23, 2013, 12:05:54 AM
#42
The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 22, 2013, 11:27:24 PM
#41
Let the witch hunting begin.

I am waiting to see how this plays out. It could be a really really good thing, or epic fail. Very interesting experiment.


edit:  Now that I understand how this works I am no longer interested in it.

By default we trust theymos. And thus trust the people that he will trust.

Most of the people will not understand the rating is based off of only Theymos, his hand picked few and the people they trust. Theymos and friends will have a significant impact on the ratings of people.

Now, If I have it wrong please let me know but as of now this is not at all organic and seems to be against the ideals of bitcoin.

I trust no one by default, including Theymos. He can not pick people who I will trust.

If the setting was to trust no one by default (trust should not be needed to use BTC unless you opt in) it would be a fair system and interesting. This is just theymos picking some guys to hand out ratings.


Again please let me know if I am not understanding how this works correctly.

Exactly, that is why I am not even going to bother with it. It is just friends of friends getting power. Honestly we need like a verification system, almost like how bitcoin can have nodes verify transactions after a miner includes it in the block, that how trust needs to work. Way too centralized.

After thinking more about this, I wonder if this will replace the scammers tag system? If Theymos is to get rid of the very centralized "scammer tag" randomness and let his deputies tag the scammers it would be a move in the right direction but still no where near good/perfect.

But still if that is the case why all this secret cover and not just say their are 10 or 15 judges who can tag a scammer. If a guy gets 5 of 15 I'm sure people will think twice.

Where has Theymos published the list of his "trusted" I can't find this anywhere but I doubt its a secret.

It probably going to replace it. Or at least start phasing them out and making the scammer tag more automatic. Right now the scammer tag requires Theymos and only Theymos to take action or if a mod recommends a person to have a scammer tag.

Obliviously he doesn't have the time anymore, to go thru the scammer accusations and add scammer tags.

Also I hope he did something like the ignore button, where you have to have certain amount of hours in the community before your ignore list has weight to it. Cause otherwise we just have all these sock puppet accounts be in the fix. I don't know if he mentioned if that is how it works.

As I said before this looks to be a witch hunt, and he should make all accusations public, we can't have trust of this in one person, this is how corruption starts.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
May 22, 2013, 11:55:48 PM
#41
If troll ratings start getting into trust networks that matter, I will do something to fix the system. I don't think that this will happen, though.

I changed some things:
- The third number now takes into account the risked BTC as well as the number of trades. For every 50 BTC people have risked with you, you get one extra "trade" added to your trade count.
- Added sent ratings to ratings pages.
- Added trust network list to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
May 22, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
#40
The ignore function already requires you to have 100 hours online and have made 100 posts already for your ignores to count.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 22, 2013, 08:46:09 PM
#39
Let the witch hunting begin.

I am waiting to see how this plays out. It could be a really really good thing, or epic fail. Very interesting experiment.


edit:  Now that I understand how this works I am no longer interested in it.

By default we trust theymos. And thus trust the people that he will trust.

Most of the people will not understand the rating is based off of only Theymos, his hand picked few and the people they trust. Theymos and friends will have a significant impact on the ratings of people.

Now, If I have it wrong please let me know but as of now this is not at all organic and seems to be against the ideals of bitcoin.

I trust no one by default, including Theymos. He can not pick people who I will trust.

If the setting was to trust no one by default (trust should not be needed to use BTC unless you opt in) it would be a fair system and interesting. This is just theymos picking some guys to hand out ratings.


Again please let me know if I am not understanding how this works correctly.

Exactly, that is why I am not even going to bother with it. It is just friends of friends getting power. Honestly we need like a verification system, almost like how bitcoin can have nodes verify transactions after a miner includes it in the block, that how trust needs to work. Way too centralized.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
May 22, 2013, 11:08:42 PM
#39
Well give it some time was wondering where that trust bar came from
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
May 22, 2013, 07:58:36 PM
#38
Yeah, I will add that soon.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
May 22, 2013, 07:18:11 PM
#37
It'd be nice if we could give feedback from someone's user page, for off-the-forum deals and importing trades prior to the implementation of this feature.

Go ahead.
I mean it would be easier if there were trust links on the user pages like yours, instead of having to change action= to trust (just figured that bit out).
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