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Topic: Mining Equipment Manufacturers - page 21. (Read 55712 times)

sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 04, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
why no avalon 66GH/S or 88GH/S unit? it is cause they don't open new batchs? And we can't buy?
They are still up on the website, but it's not obvious if they actually have plans on selling more.  I have the 88 still underneath the chart..  I'll put it back in if there is more information.


Hi,

sorry for asking again.

Am i right that the ROI isnt ROI in terms of a percentage gain or loss as compared to the price of the miner? Its just the amount of BTCs that are gained or lost in a certain period of time?

Greets

ImI

Yes that sounds right.  I must have misunderstood the question last time.
ImI
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019
June 04, 2013, 05:06:34 PM

Hi,

sorry for asking again.

Am i right that the ROI isnt ROI in terms of a percentage gain or loss as compared to the price of the miner? Its just the amount of BTCs that are gained or lost in a certain period of time?

Greets

ImI
full member
Activity: 290
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
why no avalon 66GH/S or 88GH/S unit? it is cause they don't open new batchs? And we can't buy?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 11:08:57 AM
That's not a bad idea considering that the chips are a bit late.  Going to have to push them back a month or two if they don't deliver soon.

Exactly
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 04, 2013, 11:01:02 AM

Hi,

could you add the Bitmine.ch Batch#1 to your sheet?

Price: $6,739
Performance: 88 GH/s
Expected delivery: first week of august
I'll look into it, thank you.  May take me 6 hours to get back to the computer though.

so many devices bases on avalon chips. they should be marked
That's not a bad idea considering that the chips are a bit late.  Going to have to push them back a month or two if they don't deliver soon.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 10:02:24 AM
so many devices bases on avalon chips. they should be marked
ImI
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019
June 04, 2013, 09:58:41 AM

Hi,

could you add the Bitmine.ch Batch#1 to your sheet?

Price: $6,739
Performance: 88 GH/s
Expected delivery: first week of august
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 08:11:08 AM
Quote
The Swedish VAT is basically the same as sales tax. If the product is exported from Sweden, the VAT will not be applied, but the buyer is of course responsible for paying import duties/sales tax in his home country/state. These duties/taxes vary wildly, as the OP said. The VAT within the EU varies from 18 to 27 percent.

That is technically not necessarily correct. I have sold into the EU and I am, at least from Germany, not legally allowed to exempt tax.

Im not sure if Sweden is inside the EU. But inside the EU, if you sell to a PRIVATE person, local Sales Tax applies on sale. The person can then get in touch with the local (Sweden) office to become tax exempt and get a refund on the tax.

If you are a company, you can supply a european VAT ID Number to the seller, so he can tax exempt you. In this case, as a reseller or company, you have to pay import sales tax and the SELLER has to make sure that you are exempt, so that reverse charges apply... it is complicated, but the EU VAT ID helps to make that seller show you are a business that doesnt pay sales tax.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 04, 2013, 01:32:46 AM
Yeah doc, just no way to give a good estimate on this.

ASICminer Block Eruptor is 1.99BTC, not 2.6?
Thanks a lot!  I can't imagine how that happened.

<3 to everyone helping, I couldn't do this without you.
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
June 03, 2013, 05:37:23 PM
kncminer has like 30%+ VAT/import/etc fees onto of their listed price.

Hi thanks for the input.  I decided recently to not add taxes or shipping to the totals, because that can so greatly change the price in some cases that there is almost no way to put the statistics accurately.

From the KnC thread, too, people seem entirely unfamiliar with the concept of sales taxes.

The Swedish VAT is basically the same as sales tax. If the product is exported from Sweden, the VAT will not be applied, but the buyer is of course responsible for paying import duties/sales tax in his home country/state. These duties/taxes vary wildly, as the OP said. The VAT within the EU varies from 18 to 27 percent.
Unlike in the US, in the EU prices for goods are usually quoted with national VAT included. Since businesses within the EU with VAT registration can deduct the VAT, companies selling services and goods for "professionals" (business to business) sometimes give prices VAT exclusive, as is the case with KnC, as far as i can understand.
Since the majority of their customers are likely outside Sweden, giving a price inclusive of Swedish VAT would make little sense, since everyone exporting the miners (consumers and businesses) would be allowed to deduct Swedish VAT (and would then have to add local taxes anyway). KnC could perhaps have quoted a "Swedish consumer price" (VAT inclusive), and an "export price" (VAT exclusive) to make this a bit clearer?

As FCTaiChi said, it's the tax rules in the buyer's country that matter, so all prices quoted in the table should be sales tax/VAT exclusive.
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
ASICminer Block Eruptor is 1.99BTC, not 2.6?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 03, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
Be carefull with units of measure. I'm using GH:
your coins per day = 5 GH (yours) / 100 000 GH (total) * 3600 btc = 0,18 btc

Or using difficulty, but with Hashes as units:
your coins per day = (5 000 000 000 H (yours) * 600) / (2^32 * 14 000 000 (diff)) * 3600 btc = 0,1796 btc
Wow you're right..  I was using MH vs H.  Ok glad I figured you pointed that out.  Will be great to see how the equations come out with a new setup.

This is a really nice effort. I believe the difficulty increase will average in the 13-18% range, with occasional jumps higher. Keep up the good work.
Yes I agree that it's very unlikely to go to 28% or anything near that, but if a lot of the growth for the next year is weighted toward the beginning of the period it could end up looking similar to a 20 something percent rise.
full member
Activity: 260
Merit: 100
June 03, 2013, 11:57:51 AM
This is a really nice effort. I believe the difficulty increase will average in the 13-18% range, with occasional jumps higher. Keep up the good work.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 11:19:08 AM
.....
your coins per day = (your hashrate / total hashrate) * total coins per day
I used that formula and found to be quite correct. Total hashrate is the hashrate at the time last difficulty was calculated. Total coins per day is now at 3600 (25 btc * 1 blok every 10 minutes).
For a 5GH miner:
your coins per day = 5 / 100 000 * 3600 = 0,18 btc
Ok so maybe my problem is that I'm dividing by total hashes.  You calculate with MH?  I mean that does make sense as far as the numbers come out, just didn't see it coming for the equation.
Be carefull with units of measure. I'm using GH:
your coins per day = 5 GH (yours) / 100 000 GH (total) * 3600 btc = 0,18 btc

Or using difficulty, but with Hashes as units:
your coins per day = (5 000 000 000 H (yours) * 600) / (2^32 * 14 000 000 (diff)) * 3600 btc = 0,1796 btc
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
June 03, 2013, 10:59:54 AM
just found this thread...

watching it now, and thx for the info
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 03, 2013, 10:56:25 AM
.....
your coins per day = (your hashrate / total hashrate) * total coins per day
I used that formula and found to be quite correct. Total hashrate is the hashrate at the time last difficulty was calculated. Total coins per day is now at 3600 (25 btc * 1 blok every 10 minutes).
For a 5GH miner:
your coins per day = 5 / 100 000 * 3600 = 0,18 btc

Ok so maybe my problem is that I'm dividing by total hashes.  You calculate with MH?  I mean that does make sense as far as the numbers come out, just didn't see it coming for the equation.

if I read the table correctly, for all those shipping ones, nothing is profitable for a year!
That's right. Shipping ones are either old tech (fpga), or ASICs, but with prices set so high that ROI is not possible (ASICMiner Blades).
A couple have the ability to make it up in the second year.. but yeah it's looking like we have to wait as the big players are pushing prices up so high.  I the whole community is getting a little frustrated at being pushed aside.  I started a new project to try to get the hashing power out to the public.  reat incentives, and a
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 07:10:19 AM
.....
your coins per day = (your hashrate / total hashrate) * total coins per day
I used that formula and found to be quite correct. Total hashrate is the hashrate at the time last difficulty was calculated. Total coins per day is now at 3600 (25 btc * 1 blok every 10 minutes).
For a 5GH miner:
your coins per day = 5 / 100 000 * 3600 = 0,18 btc
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 06:53:17 AM
if I read the table correctly, for all those shipping ones, nothing is profitable for a year!
That's right. Shipping ones are either old tech (fpga), or ASICs, but with prices set so high that ROI is not possible (ASICMiner Blades).
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
June 02, 2013, 01:29:35 PM
I'd just add an * or something to note that some (or all) have no taxes listed, and that europeon manufacturers will have significnatly higher taxes.

americans aren't used to VAT
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
June 02, 2013, 10:31:16 AM
kncminer has like 30%+ VAT/import/etc fees onto of their listed price.

Hi thanks for the input.  I decided recently to not add taxes or shipping to the totals, because that can so greatly change the price in some cases that there is almost no way to put the statistics accurately.
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