Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 206.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on October 06, 2022, 05:54:24 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on October 05, 2022, 12:06:50 PM

I don't think Honda really has a choice but to leave after their partnership with Red Bull ends. Even if they really wanted to stay, Honda doesn't really have the resources to work on the new specs for the new engine change on 2026. They were set to leave F1 this season but the engine change was moved to 2026 encouraging them to stay til end of 2025 season.

And it looks like there's gonna be some rain... Drivers who are fast on wet tracks are Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen but with the track having lots of turns and corners I think Sainz could be a surprise here.

Very hard to see what Honda will do in the future, the new engine specification should be easier and RedBull is now building the powertrains themselves at RedBull Powertrain, maybe Honda will just do the combustion engine as they are doing now (I think I read) and they might have the resources for that. But we will see in 2026.

The coming race is very difficult for me to predict but I expect Verstappen to be world champion this weekend, but we'll see how qualifying goes and what the weather is like on race day.

The problem is none of these, the problem was the fact that it didn't worth the money they were getting, and even though it was also marketing (we give engines to formula cars is a good sale point) it still wasn't enough.

If it would drop the cost, and increase the price, then they could have done it, but seeing how formula wants to drop the cap, and make the teams closer, so that they could all be close to each other and not have dominant cars like we have right now, that means Honda can't be getting a huge raise in the price. What we should do instead is let Red Bull create their engines, and maybe Honda could supply some engineering help at best to them for a price, instead of directly build them.

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Another race under rain, I see. Grin

I think that we can see many accidents on this track also as Suzuka track is really difficult for the drivers normally already. I wonder what Verstappen will be able to do this time. In the previous race, he had significant individual mistakes which blocked the way for him to fight for the win. This is an important race for Red Bull also in terms of their bond with Honda as you've added. Verstappen must race more focused this time to get the win otherwise this is another race that is likely for him to finish at an unwanted position. I don't think Perez can win two times in a row. Leclerc must have learned his lesson after mistakes while he was just behind Perez in Singapore also.

In addition to these, maybe Hamilton might be able to fight harder for getting a surprising result. He had a terrible race in Singapore and it was his fault also as he lacked concentration in some part of the race and had an accident.

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Another week with rain in f1?

Source: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sukuka+meteo

Meanwhile FIA postponed the sentence about RBR money cap Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Koal-84 on October 06, 2022, 05:54:24 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on October 05, 2022, 12:06:50 PM

I don't think Honda really has a choice but to leave after their partnership with Red Bull ends. Even if they really wanted to stay, Honda doesn't really have the resources to work on the new specs for the new engine change on 2026. They were set to leave F1 this season but the engine change was moved to 2026 encouraging them to stay til end of 2025 season.

And it looks like there's gonna be some rain... Drivers who are fast on wet tracks are Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen but with the track having lots of turns and corners I think Sainz could be a surprise here.

Very hard to see what Honda will do in the future, the new engine specification should be easier and RedBull is now building the powertrains themselves at RedBull Powertrain, maybe Honda will just do the combustion engine as they are doing now (I think I read) and they might have the resources for that. But we will see in 2026.

The coming race is very difficult for me to predict but I expect Verstappen to be world champion this weekend, but we'll see how qualifying goes and what the weather is like on race day.

This is a shorter track compared to Singapore so most probably in such tracks Verstappen shines,Redbull was not the favorite for such tracks with twisty turns but seeing that they did great even in such tracks and they won a lot of races in a consecutive way in such tracks means they most probably are going to win this too.Ferrari has not yet the capability to win and since Leclerc could not overtake at Singapore here is even more difficult to overtake despite being some places especially in the first corner after you have build up after the narrow ending corners which puts into straight.

I see Verstappen as world Champion here and most probably Honda would be forced to make a statement then.

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Quote from: tokeweed on October 05, 2022, 12:06:50 PM

I don't think Honda really has a choice but to leave after their partnership with Red Bull ends. Even if they really wanted to stay, Honda doesn't really have the resources to work on the new specs for the new engine change on 2026. They were set to leave F1 this season but the engine change was moved to 2026 encouraging them to stay til end of 2025 season.

And it looks like there's gonna be some rain... Drivers who are fast on wet tracks are Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen but with the track having lots of turns and corners I think Sainz could be a surprise here.

Very hard to see what Honda will do in the future, the new engine specification should be easier and RedBull is now building the powertrains themselves at RedBull Powertrain, maybe Honda will just do the combustion engine as they are doing now (I think I read) and they might have the resources for that. But we will see in 2026.

The coming race is very difficult for me to predict but I expect Verstappen to be world champion this weekend, but we'll see how qualifying goes and what the weather is like on race day.

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Quote from: boltz on October 05, 2022, 03:27:16 PM

As far as I know , Honda has some backup plans to return into F1 from 2026 and remove the HRC from F1 and let them focus on the other competitions. With Suzuka coming this weekend ,we might found more news regarding Honda and what they plan to do in future and if Max will secure his F1 title on Sunday , then for sure Honda will have to make a statement regarding their future in F1.

They haven't really laid anything concrete in the last two years. Their exit from F1 doesn't feel like anything at all, because they are still in the sidelines helping the development of Red Bull's engine actively while not establishing their presence in the F1 scene. Hopefully with the change in leadership in Honda, they can start re-establishing the HRC and be more involved in a lot of aspects in the race. I guess they only called it quits in 2020 because this is the height of the pandemic, and it will make the image of Honda look bad since they laid off a lot of workers in their main lines whilst keeping the rather "side hobby" of the company active, and that speaks volumes to workers that were removed from their jobs.

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Quote from: boltz on October 05, 2022, 03:27:16 PM

As far as I know , Honda has some backup plans to return into F1 from 2026 and remove the HRC from F1 and let them focus on the other competitions. With Suzuka coming this weekend ,we might found more news regarding Honda and what they plan to do in future and if Max will secure his F1 title on Sunday , then for sure Honda will have to make a statement regarding their future in F1.

And as far as I know, Honda is leaving F1 because of their lack of resources and technical capability on the new engines after the change. So their fate as far as their run in F1 is prolly already written. Red Bull wouldn't look for a new engine partner if Honda was still keen on staying aboard to continue development. But we'll see. They're having a good partnership with Honda and continuing would mean more stability... And more world titles.

Anyway, wet track and a track with not really many straights are bad for Red Bull's cars. Ferrari could prolly have the advantage here. Dunno...

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Quote from: boltz on October 05, 2022, 03:27:16 PM

As far as I know , Honda has some backup plans to return into F1 from 2026 and remove the HRC from F1 and let them focus on the other competitions. With Suzuka coming this weekend ,we might found more news regarding Honda and what they plan to do in future and if Max will secure his F1 title on Sunday , then for sure Honda will have to make a statement regarding their future in F1.

Redbull will do the maximum to win the title in Suzuka as the deal with Porsche is not going well so they need this partner alongside them for the coming years and what better timing than winning the F1 title in front of the home crowd in Japan.That would surely make Honda rethink their leaving of F1 in the end of this season or the next one and most probably extend their deal for several years to come.I believe Honda will continue as I think they can only benefit if their engine name is shown across the Redbull as winning car of F1 both in constructors and drivers Championship.

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Quote from: blue Snow on October 04, 2022, 11:59:05 PM

2 points left. this session look hard for Quartararo to hold the position because he got surrounded by Ducati racers, this is different from the last session where he was dominated in every race. then, Marquez was not expected again, I saw he didn't have the ability to gain the position of Champions. So what is the next race is the fight between Ducati and Yamaha, and the possibility Aprilia Racer, and Espargaro will have a chance to gain Quartararo's position.

The next fight which will take place in Australia, precisely at the Phillip Island circuit will be a very interesting fight if the weather conditions are good. Due to the Phillip Island circuit being very close to the coast, there are often strong winds blowing into the circuit. Likewise when it rains, it will obviously be difficult for all riders because the grip is different in dry conditions.

Quote from: Fakhrulenclix on October 05, 2022, 12:21:52 AM

with a difference of 2 points and only 3 races left for this season, it's not just about the motorbike of course this will be a mental war between Bagnaia and Quartararo, Bagnaia is indeed a little underdog with the advantages of the motorbike he rides but Quartararo is the defending champion of course he has a strong mentality strong to be able to defend it again this season.
Of course because this makes MotoGP more interesting and it is very likely that their competition will last until the last Race in Valencia on November 6th.

Mentality does have an influence on all drivers, but what you need to know is that they (Bagnaia and Quartararo) both have experience in handling everything in the face of racing. So I still see this as a problem, except for environmental conditions such as the weather during the race, because making predictions becomes more difficult and choosing the right tires when conditions are dry or cloudy.

Quote from: swogerino on October 05, 2022, 03:49:28 AM

Marquez was out for injuries and he is not at his top form yet despite him racing very well and bringing good emotions in the beginning of race held two weeks ago where he led it for a few laps.Marquez can play an important role in deciding who the winner will be as if he gets in the middle of the battle with any of the riders fighting for the title chances are high accidents can happen because the guys fighting for the title would want to push as hard as they can to climb up in positions and to win the remaining races.Anyone of the top three can be a winner of this season but I doubt it will be Quartararo judging his recent races results.

In my personal view Marquez is still having a bit of trouble in the race because he doesn't just keep himself fit. But also have to look at his bike which in this season did not get a big development so Marquez is still difficult to fight and until now he has not got a single podium. And the pole position he got at Motegi Japan was helped by the wet circuit conditions so he didn't have to push to the limit to get first place.

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Quote from: swogerino on October 05, 2022, 03:49:28 AM

Marquez was out for injuries and he is not at his top form yet despite him racing very well and bringing good emotions in the beginning of race held two weeks ago where he led it for a few laps.Marquez can play an important role in deciding who the winner will be as if he gets in the middle of the battle with any of the riders fighting for the title chances are high accidents can happen because the guys fighting for the title would want to push as hard as they can to climb up in positions and to win the remaining races.Anyone of the top three can be a winner of this season but I doubt it will be Quartararo judging his recent races results.

The racer who was against him in past is also getting tougher, he felt it hard to catch Ducati on every bend or straight track. He felt something wrong with his bike or don't know if was decreasing his performance. He was done because don't have confidence, as I can see in every race when he starts chasing and managed to get ahead he started to crash, and it happens again and again in every race.

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As far as I know , Honda has some backup plans to return into F1 from 2026 and remove the HRC from F1 and let them focus on the other competitions. With Suzuka coming this weekend ,we might found more news regarding Honda and what they plan to do in future and if Max will secure his F1 title on Sunday , then for sure Honda will have to make a statement regarding their future in F1.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on October 05, 2022, 04:35:26 AM

Quote from: emrecemsan on October 04, 2022, 03:42:00 PM

The Japanese Grand Prix is at this weekend.

I'm excited about this race because it wasn't held in 2020 and 2021. Bottas is still retaining his achievement as he won the last race in 2019. It is almost impossible to repeat this with Alfa Romeo now though. Grin

Anyway if we don't see heavy conditions again then I think Verstappen is already very close to getting his first ever victory in Suzuka. There is no way any other driver competing with him at the same level under normal conditions now.

However if we see heavy rain then this race would be much more difficult for Verstappen also. It is already not an easy track and it would add an extra difficulty to the situation.

I'm curious about RedBull's motivation at the Japanese Grand Prix. Helmut Marko has indicated that he would like to see Verstappen win the world championship title in Japan, for the engine partner Honda that could be make Honda happy Grin

. The deal with Porsche has apparently fallen through and RedBull wants to have engine partner Honda on board for longer.

I didn't understand why Porsche decided to withdraw from F1 this much quickly either. Audi and them both seemed very eager to be a part of this sport as engine suppliers in fact. There is no way this is related to some financial issues so I wonder what the reason behind was.

Anyway Red Bull had better continue to keep a good relationship with Honda indeed. They need to do their best to reach an agreement with them after 2025 also if they can't find another supplier. Winning in Japan would be a good step for this relationship to get stronger. So the team will be eyeing Verstappen and Perez much more than the previous races. Grin

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It will have to be very different next year if we want to see an exciting title fight. At this point, only the first races were exciting as Leclerc managed to win a few races. He has also dropped out a lot, so we could say that this season it is mainly due to technical problems that Ferrari has not been able to participate seriously in the title fight. With Perez, VrRstappen also has a very good second driver. What can we expect from Nick de Vries next season?

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I am pretty sure that we are not going to get any big news, and I am pretty sure that Red Bull will get away with it as well, they are just going to get compliance certificate and look for the next years.

This isn't about just "getting away with breaking the rules" type of deal, it’s just way too much accounting required to make sure that Red Bull is not over the cap limit and they could just use all kinds of "this was for the engine takeover" part that would be impossible to provide proof otherwise, and that's another firm. So, there is no way that it could be found out now, and if they repeat, they can't take over more engine production companies, hence it won't be possible.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on October 05, 2022, 04:35:26 AM

Quote from: emrecemsan on October 04, 2022, 03:42:00 PM

The Japanese Grand Prix is at this weekend.

I'm excited about this race because it wasn't held in 2020 and 2021. Bottas is still retaining his achievement as he won the last race in 2019. It is almost impossible to repeat this with Alfa Romeo now though. Grin

Anyway if we don't see heavy conditions again then I think Verstappen is already very close to getting his first ever victory in Suzuka. There is no way any other driver competing with him at the same level under normal conditions now.

However if we see heavy rain then this race would be much more difficult for Verstappen also. It is already not an easy track and it would add an extra difficulty to the situation.

I'm curious about RedBull's motivation at the Japanese Grand Prix. Helmut Marko has indicated that he would like to see Verstappen win the world championship title in Japan, for the engine partner Honda that could be make Honda happy Grin

. The deal with Porsche has apparently fallen through and RedBull wants to have engine partner Honda on board for longer.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/198851/Helmut-Marko-zum-WM-Titel-Besser-waerE28099s-in-Japan.html

The weather in Suzuka is still very difficult to predict.

I don't think Honda really has a choice but to leave after their partnership with Red Bull ends. Even if they really wanted to stay, Honda doesn't really have the resources to work on the new specs for the new engine change on 2026. They were set to leave F1 this season but the engine change was moved to 2026 encouraging them to stay til end of 2025 season.

And it looks like there's gonna be some rain... Drivers who are fast on wet tracks are Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen but with the track having lots of turns and corners I think Sainz could be a surprise here.

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on October 04, 2022, 04:41:14 PM

Red Bull and Verstappen are making a bit of a game out of it. In itself nice for the media, but what good is it? Verstappen is already world champion. I think the chance is not even 0.01 percent that he will not become world champion. And Perez is just 2nd in the standings, so a perfect season for Red Bull. Verstappen said it's a bad weekend, but he can do that sometime. He has won so much this season. Leclerc will not be happy with his 2nd place. He just wants to win as many races as possible and hope that he can compete more for the world title next season.

Leclerc made some individual mistakes from time to time that cost him big also. However in general it's all been Ferrari's fault. They made so many simple mistakes in pit above all else. The car has had big durability problems so far and this has made things very difficult for Leclerc and Sainz both to compete with Red Bull at the same level. They are even having difficulties in getting past Mercedes drivers these days. Of course FIA's latest changes in the regulation were bad news for Ferrari also. Because as far as I know Ferrari had to increase the height of their car which meant a significant speed loss.

All these combined made Ferrari have a terrible season. They must be focused on getting prepared stronger for next season already now. They had better be because it seems like the competition level can reach higher levels if Mercedes also enter the title race.

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Quote from: emrecemsan on October 04, 2022, 03:42:00 PM

The Japanese Grand Prix is at this weekend.

I'm excited about this race because it wasn't held in 2020 and 2021. Bottas is still retaining his achievement as he won the last race in 2019. It is almost impossible to repeat this with Alfa Romeo now though. Grin

Anyway if we don't see heavy conditions again then I think Verstappen is already very close to getting his first ever victory in Suzuka. There is no way any other driver competing with him at the same level under normal conditions now.

However if we see heavy rain then this race would be much more difficult for Verstappen also. It is already not an easy track and it would add an extra difficulty to the situation.

I'm curious about RedBull's motivation at the Japanese Grand Prix. Helmut Marko has indicated that he would like to see Verstappen win the world championship title in Japan, for the engine partner Honda that could be make Honda happy Grin

. The deal with Porsche has apparently fallen through and RedBull wants to have engine partner Honda on board for longer.

https://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/198851/Helmut-Marko-zum-WM-Titel-Besser-waerE28099s-in-Japan.html

The weather in Suzuka is still very difficult to predict.

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Quote from: blue Snow on October 04, 2022, 11:59:05 PM

Quote from: Davian144 on October 04, 2022, 07:38:39 PM

Fabio Quartararo has no other help than himself who has to fight to defend the world champion, because Fabio Quartararo is the reigning champion this season. But in this case there will be a lot of people favoring Bagnaia because he has more help from independent Ducati teams based on instructions from the Ducati boss directly not to have to take more risks with Bagnaia in the race. And at the Race in Thailand, I saw Marquez who is also no longer with his feet now, even though in rainy conditions, usually he is also better than the others.

2 points left. this session look hard for Quartararo to hold the position because he got surrounded by Ducati racers, this is different from the last session where he was dominated in every race. then, Marquez was not expected again, I saw he didn't have the ability to gain the position of Champions. So what is the next race is the fight between Ducati and Yamaha, and the possibility Aprilia Racer, and Espargaro will have a chance to gain Quartararo's position.

Marquez was out for injuries and he is not at his top form yet despite him racing very well and bringing good emotions in the beginning of race held two weeks ago where he led it for a few laps.Marquez can play an important role in deciding who the winner will be as if he gets in the middle of the battle with any of the riders fighting for the title chances are high accidents can happen because the guys fighting for the title would want to push as hard as they can to climb up in positions and to win the remaining races.Anyone of the top three can be a winner of this season but I doubt it will be Quartararo judging his recent races results.

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Quote from: blue Snow on October 04, 2022, 11:59:05 PM

Quote from: Davian144 on October 04, 2022, 07:38:39 PM

Fabio Quartararo has no other help than himself who has to fight to defend the world champion, because Fabio Quartararo is the reigning champion this season. But in this case there will be a lot of people favoring Bagnaia because he has more help from independent Ducati teams based on instructions from the Ducati boss directly not to have to take more risks with Bagnaia in the race. And at the Race in Thailand, I saw Marquez who is also no longer with his feet now, even though in rainy conditions, usually he is also better than the others.

2 points left. this session look hard for Quartararo to hold the position because he got surrounded by Ducati racers, this is different from the last session where he was dominated in every race. then, Marquez was not expected again, I saw he didn't have the ability to gain the position of Champions. So what is the next race is the fight between Ducati and Yamaha, and the possibility Aprilia Racer, and Espargaro will have a chance to gain Quartararo's position.

with a difference of 2 points and only 3 races left for this season, it's not just about the motorbike of course this will be a mental war between Bagnaia and Quartararo, Bagnaia is indeed a little underdog with the advantages of the motorbike he rides but Quartararo is the defending champion of course he has a strong mentality strong to be able to defend it again this season.
Of course because this makes MotoGP more interesting and it is very likely that their competition will last until the last Race in Valencia on November 6th.

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Quote from: Davian144 on October 04, 2022, 07:38:39 PM

Fabio Quartararo has no other help than himself who has to fight to defend the world champion, because Fabio Quartararo is the reigning champion this season. But in this case there will be a lot of people favoring Bagnaia because he has more help from independent Ducati teams based on instructions from the Ducati boss directly not to have to take more risks with Bagnaia in the race. And at the Race in Thailand, I saw Marquez who is also no longer with his feet now, even though in rainy conditions, usually he is also better than the others.

2 points left. this session look hard for Quartararo to hold the position because he got surrounded by Ducati racers, this is different from the last session where he was dominated in every race. then, Marquez was not expected again, I saw he didn't have the ability to gain the position of Champions. So what is the next race is the fight between Ducati and Yamaha, and the possibility Aprilia Racer, and Espargaro will have a chance to gain Quartararo's position.

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