Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 216.

LittleBitFunny

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 14, 2022, 03:34:30 AM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on September 13, 2022, 03:44:34 PM

Right now both Hamilton and Russell are equivalent because compared to last time Russell got an upgrade to his car and Hamilton got somewhat of a downgrade to his car.
Thus, I believe that this year's races are going to be quite intense as Mercedes has been the best amongst the lot for a long time, so it was quite hard for others to compete with Hamilton's speed due to the fact that he had the fastest car in the field in the past. However, right now as he got some out of a down way to his car the playing field is going to be level.

I just think Mercedes has pretty much finished with this season (Wolf once said that this year's car is not going into the museum but into the basement) and i think they now trying different things on this year's car for the development of next year's car, so there is a lot of different testing on both cars. It is also quite certain that Mercedes will finish 3rd in the Constructors' World Championship this year, so they can already work at full speed on next year's car.

I think this could be a viable option for both of them because I think that it's OK to test out different things so that they can make the right changes in the long run. As both companies are trying out different things I think they should be let to do as they wish. Moreover, you are also correct that Mercedes will finish third and as it's quite obvious for them I think them trying out new things is the best they can do right now.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 14, 2022, 03:53:51 PM

RBR already said that the next update on the car it will be the last one of the season and it will be done in Singapore.

Not a big surprise, they already have the best car and a huge advantage, there is no point to spend much money.

Yes, you are right RBR had the best car by a far shot, and it doesn't make sense if they spent on their car. I think their car is quite balanced and I believe that as long as something works it should not be changed because spending extra right now would be a waste of money for them in my opinion. let's see what the future holds for them.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 14, 2022, 03:53:51 PM

RBR already said that the next update on the car it will be the last one of the season and it will be done in Singapore.

Not a big surprise, they already have the best car and a huge advantage, there is no point to spend much money.

I think that even if they do not do any upgrades they have still the best car,we saw that in the last race at Monza where Redbull was faster than Ferrari even with used medium tires so yes there is no point in spending more money for the development of the actual car.Most probably they are already working on next year car as I think compared to other teams they are behind because other teams like McLaren have started really early the development of the next year car and I believe also Mercedes to have done so,so in this aspect Redbull needs to catch up.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 14, 2022, 07:29:56 AM

Personally, I don't think Vettel will resign from the resign, why would he do that so quickly? At Williams I think after the excellent performance at Monza N. de Vries will get a cockpit, as N. de Vries was mainly at Mercedes I don't think he will come to Alpine or a non Mercedes team, but there is probably only one cockpit left at Williams. But some seats are still available for 2023, here is a small overview.

Mick should find himself a place one way or another. I know that he hasn't been good on his first year, and that constant being last is a big deal, but he never really got a car that was half decent and that was his problem. Ferrari may not give him a chance, but removing him from Haas means that dude probably won't be in F1 and getting back into it is very tough, so he should be getting a place.

If Ferrari gave up on him, then he could move to Williams to race with Albon and I am sure he will be great there. Haas also hired back Giovanazzi, the Italian Jesus back. Which contradicts my point of coming back but dude didn't deserve it and this rarely happens for sure.

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RBR already said that the next update on the car it will be the last one of the season and it will be done in Singapore.

Not a big surprise, they already have the best car and a huge advantage, there is no point to spend much money.

CLS63

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Quote from: tokeweed on September 13, 2022, 04:31:34 PM

Quote from: CLS63 on September 13, 2022, 03:15:14 PM

There are only six races left in this season of F1.

Maybe Verstappen still hasn't guaranteed his championship mathematically but it would most probably happen after a few races the most. Because he is definitely unstoppable now as he has no competitor who can make difficulties for him in any race. Unless he has any issues with his car he should be able to win the remaining races as well. Ferrari's main focus should be not making any mistake on the remaining days. If they solve this problem maybe Binotto might not make much change in his crew. Otherwise Ferrari will need a big change to be competitive for the championship next season for real. As Mercedes will also be in a title rivalry most probably Ferrari will need to work even harder than now. Red Bull are already consistent so I don't have any doubt about them for next season as well.

Yup, the momentum is on Verstappen's side, he has one of the best technical teams in all of F1 and has one of the best strategic teams. It's close between Red Bull and Mercedes in terms if who has the best team.

And I think the journalists like to use 'mathematically' just to keep everybody interested. Wink

But the truth is it has gotten boring now. This season now is sooo far from what last season was like.

Last season was at least interesting man. Because the story of that season was incredible even though the ending wasn't fair for Hamilton. Verstappen led the season for a really long time but Hamilton caught up with him in the standings day by day. They even entered the final race on equal points which was incredibly exciting.

Now we just watch Verstappen dominate the whole season and there is nobody to stop him before the end of the season. Of course Leclerc still keeps his mathematical chance for the championship but let's just be realistic, shall we? Grin

There is no way this is happening while he has a slower car compared to Verstappen's.

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Max Verstappen is in fact already champion. Even in theory it couldn't go wrong, unless he crashed and couldn't drive for the rest of the season. Something to think about for next season. Do we want another season just like this? It all started nice and nice when Leclerc won a few races in the beginning, but after that it was over. I don't think it's because of Leclerc, but that Ferrari's car wasn't good enough. If Leclerc had driven the RedBull it would have been a lot more fun. This is a memorable season in particular for Hamilton, he has not yet won a grand prix and he has not even been allowed to dream about the world title.

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Quote from: swogerino on September 14, 2022, 08:18:40 AM

Quote from: Distraction on September 14, 2022, 05:23:15 AM

Mercedes were linked with him some time ago to fill Hamilton's place when Hamilton decides to quit F1. Maybe this could happen in the future even if Vettel retires. But they would need to make a big effort to convince him to return to this sport again. Grin

I wonder if they would make a good duo with Russell also.

We have seen from Schumacher that retired at first but was convinced by them to come and race for Mercedes because they promised him to build the car together and he did build a great car that won many Championships after he lost his "life" and for Vettel can be easier to bring him back even if he retires if they give him a winning car.

I believe any driver at whatever age would be happy to jump in and drive such car which would revive the best memories of F1 for Vettel and I think he can't say no to such offer.

If he has two sides now and one of those sides wants to stay in F1 then maybe he could surprise all of us by signing for Alpine. He can still race for a few more years normally but it is up to him after being 35 years old. Raikkonen raced even after being 40 and Hamilton also might reach nearly that age before quitting F1.

By the way I have seen a new update that Vettel won't be a part of this test by Alpine. But if there are really some ongoing talks between Alpine and Vettel it feels really exciting. Grin

It is always good to continue to watch one of the most valuable drivers in F1 even if he doesn't have a too competitive car.

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Quote from: Distraction on September 14, 2022, 05:23:15 AM

Mercedes were linked with him some time ago to fill Hamilton's place when Hamilton decides to quit F1. Maybe this could happen in the future even if Vettel retires. But they would need to make a big effort to convince him to return to this sport again. Grin

I wonder if they would make a good duo with Russell also.

We have seen from Schumacher that retired at first but was convinced by them to come and race for Mercedes because they promised him to build the car together and he did build a great car that won many Championships after he lost his "life" and for Vettel can be easier to bring him back even if he retires if they give him a winning car.

I believe any driver at whatever age would be happy to jump in and drive such car which would revive the best memories of F1 for Vettel and I think he can't say no to such offer.

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Quote from: Distraction on September 14, 2022, 05:23:15 AM

There are still some rumours linking Vettel with Alpine for 2023 season. It would be lovely to watch him driving a faster car after struggling with Aston Martin most of the time. However I don't think that Vettel is thinking of changing his mind seriously about retiring at the end of the season. Besides I believe that he should be a part of a team that are fighting for the championship even if he continues in F1. Maybe he can't be the main driver of such team now but he would still do a good job as the second driver.

Mercedes were linked with him some time ago to fill Hamilton's place when Hamilton decides to quit F1. Maybe this could happen in the future even if Vettel retires. But they would need to make a big effort to convince him to return to this sport again. Grin

I wonder if they would make a good duo with Russell also.

Personally, I don't think Vettel will resign from the resign, why would he do that so quickly? At Williams I think after the excellent performance at Monza N. de Vries will get a cockpit, as N. de Vries was mainly at Mercedes I don't think he will come to Alpine or a non Mercedes team, but there is probably only one cockpit left at Williams. But some seats are still available for 2023, here is a small overview.

Red Bull: Max Verstappen, Sergio Perez
Ferrari: Charles Leclerc, Carlos Sainz
Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton, George Russell
McLaren: Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri
Aston Martin: Fernando Alonso, Lance Stroll
Alpine: Esteban Ocon, Huh

AlphaTauri: Pierre Gasly, Huh

Alfa Romeo: Valtteri Bottas, Huh

Williams: Alexander Albon, Huh

Haas: Kevin Magnussen, Huh

Distraction

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There are still some rumours linking Vettel with Alpine for 2023 season. It would be lovely to watch him driving a faster car after struggling with Aston Martin most of the time. However I don't think that Vettel is thinking of changing his mind seriously about retiring at the end of the season. Besides I believe that he should be a part of a team that are fighting for the championship even if he continues in F1. Maybe he can't be the main driver of such team now but he would still do a good job as the second driver.

Mercedes were linked with him some time ago to fill Hamilton's place when Hamilton decides to quit F1. Maybe this could happen in the future even if Vettel retires. But they would need to make a big effort to convince him to return to this sport again. Grin

I wonder if they would make a good duo with Russell also.

Koal-84

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Quote from: LittleBitFunny on September 13, 2022, 03:44:34 PM

Right now both Hamilton and Russell are equivalent because compared to last time Russell got an upgrade to his car and Hamilton got somewhat of a downgrade to his car.

Thus, I believe that this year's races are going to be quite intense as Mercedes has been the best amongst the lot for a long time, so it was quite hard for others to compete with Hamilton's speed due to the fact that he had the fastest car in the field in the past. However, right now as he got some out of a down way to his car the playing field is going to be level.

I just think Mercedes has pretty much finished with this season (Wolf once said that this year's car is not going into the museum but into the basement) and i think they now trying different things on this year's car for the development of next year's car, so there is a lot of different testing on both cars. It is also quite certain that Mercedes will finish 3rd in the Constructors' World Championship this year, so they can already work at full speed on next year's car.

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Quote from: CLS63 on September 13, 2022, 03:15:14 PM

There are only six races left in this season of F1.

Maybe Verstappen still hasn't guaranteed his championship mathematically but it would most probably happen after a few races the most. Because he is definitely unstoppable now as he has no competitor who can make difficulties for him in any race. Unless he has any issues with his car he should be able to win the remaining races as well. Ferrari's main focus should be not making any mistake on the remaining days. If they solve this problem maybe Binotto might not make much change in his crew. Otherwise Ferrari will need a big change to be competitive for the championship next season for real. As Mercedes will also be in a title rivalry most probably Ferrari will need to work even harder than now. Red Bull are already consistent so I don't have any doubt about them for next season as well.

Yup, the momentum is on Verstappen's side, he has one of the best technical teams in all of F1 and has one of the best strategic teams. It's close between Red Bull and Mercedes in terms if who has the best team.

And I think the journalists like to use 'mathematically' just to keep everybody interested. Wink

But the truth is it has gotten boring now. This season now is sooo far from what last season was like.

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Quote from: emrecemsan on September 12, 2022, 03:00:10 PM

Hamilton said that FIA acted according to the rules this time about the safety car. He referred to the championship race in Abu Dhabi last season too of course. He lost the championship after that huge mistake in the end. Coming back to the Monza GP, Horner stated also that the safety car should have entered pit before the last lap started. He said that they wanted to win this race on track not under safety car. Leclerc also complained about it by thinking that the track was clear already.

Anyway they still needed the drivers who were lapped to overtake the safety car and catch up with the convoy. So there was no time for that to happen as they took action about Ricciardo's car quite late. Ferrari made their fans unhappy again as a result. But I still don't want to blame them much because they didn't screw up anything in pit or with the strategies at least.

Right now both Hamilton and Russell are equivalent because compared to last time Russell got an upgrade to his car and Hamilton got somewhat of a downgrade to his car.

Thus, I believe that this year's races are going to be quite intense as Mercedes has been the best amongst the lot for a long time, so it was quite hard for others to compete with Hamilton's speed due to the fact that he had the fastest car in the field in the past. However, right now as he got some out of a down way to his car the playing field is going to be level.

CLS63

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There are only six races left in this season of F1.

Maybe Verstappen still hasn't guaranteed his championship mathematically but it would most probably happen after a few races the most. Because he is definitely unstoppable now as he has no competitor who can make difficulties for him in any race. Unless he has any issues with his car he should be able to win the remaining races as well. Ferrari's main focus should be not making any mistake on the remaining days. If they solve this problem maybe Binotto might not make much change in his crew. Otherwise Ferrari will need a big change to be competitive for the championship next season for real. As Mercedes will also be in a title rivalry most probably Ferrari will need to work even harder than now. Red Bull are already consistent so I don't have any doubt about them for next season as well.

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Quote from: swogerino on September 13, 2022, 12:45:09 PM

This race is in Aragon and in the autosport website I read that Marq Marquez is making the return to MotoGP,I know this means nothing for the Championship as Marquez has only 60 points but I think it would add to the overall spectacle of the race.It still close at the top here but still Fabio is the most advantaged of the other riders,he has been somewhat more consistent than the others despite that even Bagnaia and Espargaro have done good as well.

Yes, I read the same and he still has a deficit in the strenght but he thinks it will be fine and the missing stenght he can only make good on a MotoGP bike. We will see how he is doing but I think it will be very difficult for him to get back to the top.

Small detail although Marquez has missed many races, he is still the best placed Honda in the world championship this season.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 13, 2022, 12:26:02 PM

I'm looking forward to the MotoGP race this weekend, hope that Aleix and Bagnaia can make up a few points on Fabio, that would make the championship even more exciting. In Formula 1, the championship is already decided in MotoGP is still open for 3 riders in the last 6 races.

This race is in Aragon and in the autosport website I read that Marq Marquez is making the return to MotoGP,I know this means nothing for the Championship as Marquez has only 60 points but I think it would add to the overall spectacle of the race.It still close at the top here but still Fabio is the most advantaged of the other riders,he has been somewhat more consistent than the others despite that even Bagnaia and Espargaro have done good as well.

I have only seen occasional races in MotoGP but this weekend going to see it as there is no F1 race and I have always liked Spanish GP-s in the MotoGP.

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I'm looking forward to the MotoGP race this weekend, hope that Aleix and Bagnaia can make up a few points on Fabio, that would make the championship even more exciting. In Formula 1, the championship is already decided in MotoGP is still open for 3 riders in the last 6 races.

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Hamilton said that FIA acted according to the rules this time about the safety car. He referred to the championship race in Abu Dhabi last season too of course. He lost the championship after that huge mistake in the end. Coming back to the Monza GP, Horner stated also that the safety car should have entered pit before the last lap started. He said that they wanted to win this race on track not under safety car. Leclerc also complained about it by thinking that the track was clear already.

Anyway they still needed the drivers who were lapped to overtake the safety car and catch up with the convoy. So there was no time for that to happen as they took action about Ricciardo's car quite late. Ferrari made their fans unhappy again as a result. But I still don't want to blame them much because they didn't screw up anything in pit or with the strategies at least.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 11, 2022, 09:24:36 AM

RBR deserved the win but what a joke from FIA with the safety car and the virtual safety car

The last laps of the race yesterday were really pretty weird to watch and of course also pretty underwhelming in terms of excitement and racing. That being said i think it is pretty easy to blame the FIA now for that decision, but just imagine how big the criticism for them would have been if they would restarted the race in a hurry and to early and then a major accident would have happened. They chose the safe alternative and even though it was not exciting, i don't think they deserve all that blame that they get now.
Also it is really not like Leclerc was cheated out of a win or something as Verstappen completely dominated the race and deserved that victory yesterday, as you already said.

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Quote from: swogerino on September 12, 2022, 04:48:57 AM

Quote

I also don't understand why at least the last round was not given free. After last season's safety car disaster in the last race, they are now back to being chickenshits and don't dare do anything. Why can't they find a sensible solution? Maybe they should consider that the real safety car laps don't count towards the race distance?

I think that would be the best decision ever made from the FIA.Especially now after this race that ended with the Safety Car leading the cars and the last 5 laps of the race netted 0 emotions to everyone of us.If the Safety Car would not count then we would have seen some of the best laps of the whole race in these last 5 laps.Another change they should make is to increase the race distance from 2 hours to 3.30 hours,I think drivers can handle that without having big problems.

That would have been extremely exciting if the safety car laps hadn't counted. This is how it would be in future races, that it would be exciting if the laps from the safety car did not count. I see the extension of the race distance as a smaller problem for the drivers, but the fueltank would probably become too small, but behind the SafetyCar the cars need considerably less fuel, so I could imagine that with a regular SafetyCar the laps don't count, which are usually not many laps in a serious accident, the race is interrupted anyway and in minor cases there is the virtual SafetyCar and there the distances are kept.

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