Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 285.

Koal-84

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Quote from: karabiber on April 27, 2022, 04:41:15 AM

Max Verstappen who took the pole position led all the laps of the race made the fastest lap and achieved the victory made two Grand Slams. Hamilton was a disappointment to me. After the Imola GP Verstappen moved up to second place in the drivers standings with 59 points. Competition intensifies in the rankings of teams. The Red Bull team continues to follow the Ferrari team.

RedBull gave away a lot of points in the first races due to unreliability. The cars are pretty much the same, the Ferrari is a bit stronger in the infield than the RedBull, but the RedBull has a bit more top speed and Ferrari has a hard time overtaking the RedBull even with DRS. A very balanced season so far, I think the championship between Leclerc and Verstappen will be decided by the reliability of the car.

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Max Verstappen who took the pole position led all the laps of the race made the fastest lap and achieved the victory made two Grand Slams. Hamilton was a disappointment to me. After the Imola GP Verstappen moved up to second place in the drivers standings with 59 points. Competition intensifies in the rankings of teams. The Red Bull team continues to follow the Ferrari team.

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 26, 2022, 09:06:45 AM

Here's a question for you... So you think the guy who gets pole in the next GP will also win the race or is it really that close between RBR and Ferrari that the guy who gets the pole doesn't win the race at any given GP. That was my 'secret market'. Lol. I was starting to think Ferrari would be so ahead from the rest that betting on 'winner of race is from pole position' every GP would give more than 50% win rate for the whole season combined.

I think it's close enough that the one who gets pole won't necessarily win the GP. Of course it depends on the track, though. And it also depends on the gap in qualifying. If someone gets pole by a couple of thousandths, then that's different to if someone takes pole by half a second. I haven't looked at the stats, but I'd guess that 'winner of race is from pole' would be well above 50% most seasons, but not so clear-cut this season. As we're at the start of a new era, everything is a bit uncertain, and I'd wait a couple more races for it all to calm down and patterns to start to emerge. But who knows? My betting record isn't fantastic. Cheesy

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Did you guys saw transcripts of radio from Imola? Interesting stuff how Russel and Hamilton see conditions in track:

So, it's dry track for Russel, but one lap later it's still wet for Hamilton. And despite it, Hamilton changed tyres just one lap after this message if I remeber correctly. Source for transcriptions:
https://www.racefans.net/2022/04/26/transcript-i-need-more-power-hamilton-and-russells-contrasting-fortunes-at-imola/

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Quote from: Cnut237 on April 26, 2022, 04:05:05 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

Yes, you're right. I think it was widely expected that Ferrari would be faster here, and I did expect them to extend their advantage from the previous race, and maybe even get a 1-2 here with Max back in 3rd. It's a bit of a surprise, but it does keep things interesting. If it really is the case that the RB and Ferrari are evenly matched, and whoever is fastest will vary from circuit to circuit, then I think we're in for a good season.

I do agree that there is a good case to be made about Ferrari not just being faster, they are faster than their previous year for sure, but they do not look like they are that much faster than Red Bull, in fact there are situations where I believe Red Bull could be even faster. The trick is that, Charles won twice already and that is why people think that Charles is better.

In the first race, Max was capable of catching up to Charles twice but didn't consider ferrari would be fast enough to catch up on the next DRS, on the second race he realized this and just arranged it in a way that he would get it on the second drs zone and won, and on the third race he had to stop. So, Max proved that he could be faster than Charles, but since charles won the 2 out of 3 everyone thought he was faster.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on April 26, 2022, 04:05:05 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

Yes, you're right. I think it was widely expected that Ferrari would be faster here, and I did expect them to extend their advantage from the previous race, and maybe even get a 1-2 here with Max back in 3rd. It's a bit of a surprise, but it does keep things interesting. If it really is the case that the RB and Ferrari are evenly matched, and whoever is fastest will vary from circuit to circuit, then I think we're in for a good season.

Here's a question for you... So you think the guy who gets pole in the next GP will also win the race or is it really that close between RBR and Ferrari that the guy who gets the pole doesn't win the race at any given GP. That was my 'secret market'. Lol. I was starting to think Ferrari would be so ahead from the rest that betting on 'winner of race is from pole position' every GP would give more than 50% win rate for the whole season combined.

Lantind

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The Portuguese GP was the 4️⃣0️⃣0️⃣ MotoGP race for Lin Jarvis as Team Leader of the Yamaha Factory Racing MotoGP Team.

Statistics (so far):
122 race wins
335 podiums
8 Rider Titles
7 Team Titles
6 Manufacturer Titles
5 MotoGP Triple Crowns

#MonsterYamaha | #MotoGP | #PortugueseGP #source: yamahamotogp

Cnut237

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

Yes, you're right. I think it was widely expected that Ferrari would be faster here, and I did expect them to extend their advantage from the previous race, and maybe even get a 1-2 here with Max back in 3rd. It's a bit of a surprise, but it does keep things interesting. If it really is the case that the RB and Ferrari are evenly matched, and whoever is fastest will vary from circuit to circuit, then I think we're in for a good season.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Davian144 on April 26, 2022, 01:45:34 AM

Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 02:56:15 AM

Very surprising result in the MotoGP race, nobody expected a victory from Fabio (superior and unthreatened) and certainly not me. Very sad for Mir, he had a very good race, the Suzuki works well, unfortunately Miller was a bit over-motivated and Mir was unlucky that Miller also caught him. Honda was a bit weak and Marc had a very unstable bike.

Last year Suzuki was also stable here, especially Joan Mir even though he had never won there either, but overall it is very clear that Suzuki is stable there so Joan Mir always has the potential to get a very good position.
But what was very surprising in the race in Portugal was Alex Rins who started the race from Grid 23 and was able to finish in 4th place.

And for Fabio Quartararo, I was not surprised and I was also convinced that he would win again in Portugal because at the beginning of last season he also won the race in the Algarve Portugal.

Exactly, you forget Alex Rins, he rode a very strong race, but also Bagnaia is not to be forgotten, he ride from the last position on the grid to position 8 after the crash in qualifying, also a very strong performance.

It seems that Portimao could be Fabio's favourite track, the Yamaha, like Honda in general, was not really strong here except for Fabio, the other Yamaha riders are far behind.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 09:37:33 AM

RedBull had the best package in Imola, but RedBull also benefited from Ferrari's own mistakes, you have to be fair. In addition, Ferrari did not bring any updates because of the sprint race and the resulting lack of time. They will probably come in Miami, where there is a completely new track and the forces can change again.

But in any case, in contrast to the last seasons, this season 2 cars are on a par, even though I think Ferrari still has a bit more room for improvement, but Red Bull has managed to make it very difficult to overtake them on the straights, which is definitely a small advantage.

The idea that one team did better because the other didn't is literally the whole deal of racing. I mean we sure do have races where everyone's car goes great and only like back racers that gets a crash, but that is not really the common thing. We always have problems with cars and that results with people losing positions and points.

Max was the lucky one this time, Charles was the lucky one last time, it just happens to be like that. Good that Red Bull actually had a 1-2 though, I mean yes Ferrari wasn't there but at the same time Red Bull could have screwed up as well and they didn't do that, they have been doing fine and took advantage of that situation.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 02:56:15 AM

Very surprising result in the MotoGP race, nobody expected a victory from Fabio (superior and unthreatened) and certainly not me. Very sad for Mir, he had a very good race, the Suzuki works well, unfortunately Miller was a bit over-motivated and Mir was unlucky that Miller also caught him. Honda was a bit weak and Marc had a very unstable bike.

Last year Suzuki was also stable here, especially Joan Mir even though he had never won there either, but overall it is very clear that Suzuki is stable there so Joan Mir always has the potential to get a very good position.
But what was very surprising in the race in Portugal was Alex Rins who started the race from Grid 23 and was able to finish in 4th place.

And for Fabio Quartararo, I was not surprised and I was also convinced that he would win again in Portugal because at the beginning of last season he also won the race in the Algarve Portugal.

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

Quote from: Cnut237 on April 25, 2022, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

Yeah it did look like Ferrari was gonna start dominating the season tho even if the difference between them and Red Bull wasn't really huge. It also looked like Red Bull was gonna play catch up all season. I guess I spoke too soon on that one.

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

The Ferraris were fast but not fast enough as the Redbulls,however I think it was the pressure on the Ferrari drivers that made them start in the worst possible way the race with Leclerc losing many positions and Sainz rushed more than he should have so it was out of the track right after the first corner.If Ferrari drivers were calm and if Leclerc would be on top of Verstappen during the start I think it would have been difficult for Redbull to overtake him on track as the difference between the cars is small right now.

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Quote from: AakZaki on April 25, 2022, 11:41:42 AM

Quote from: bestcoins1 on April 24, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

~snip~
I see that Yamaha will be getting stronger at several other European circuits this season, especially for Fabio Quartararo. And what's unique is that after the Race in the Algarve Portugal today, there is no Honda in the top 10 temporary standings.

The European session will be yamaha's mainstay, especially Fabio Quartararo to find points. So I think they'll make the most of not making mistakes in the next Session. What I see is that the character of the European circuit does not have many straights that prioritize the strength of the bike.
As for Honda, I think without Marquez they wouldn't be able to hope much. Their replacement drivers did not perform well either. It seems that the one who can master the current Honda mootor is only Marquez.

Quartararo is still the best

, when I look at the table he is on top with 69 points same as Rinz, and 3 points left from Espargaro.

Quartararo it's getting hot after got 1st podium in Portugal, I believe he will continue it in Spain next week. but, when we saw him in 2021, he was bad got 13th in Spain, he must be careful because Ducati is very dominated when racing in Circuito de Jerez. So we don't expect too much when Quartararo finishes under 5 lines.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Cnut237 on April 25, 2022, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

Yeah it did look like Ferrari was gonna start dominating the season tho even if the difference between them and Red Bull wasn't really huge. It also looked like Red Bull was gonna play catch up all season. I guess I spoke too soon on that one.

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

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Quote from: bestcoins1 on April 24, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

~snip~
I see that Yamaha will be getting stronger at several other European circuits this season, especially for Fabio Quartararo. And what's unique is that after the Race in the Algarve Portugal today, there is no Honda in the top 10 temporary standings.

The European session will be yamaha's mainstay, especially Fabio Quartararo to find points. So I think they'll make the most of not making mistakes in the next Session. What I see is that the character of the European circuit does not have many straights that prioritize the strength of the bike.
As for Honda, I think without Marquez they wouldn't be able to hope much. Their replacement drivers did not perform well either. It seems that the one who can master the current Honda mootor is only Marquez.

Koal-84

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull did but it's not just the mistakes from Ferrari. Have you noticed that both Red Bull cars have had faster race pace at Imola? Leclerc couldn't challenge either Verstappen or Perez for their spots on the track. It was really surprising esp after seeing how Leclerc lead around 90% of the sprint race... It looks like I'd have to put betting on 'winner of race, pole position' every GP on hold. Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

And I don't mind Imola. If they were to remove Imola from the calendar due to impossibility of overtaking then remove Monaco and a couple others too.

RedBull had the best package in Imola, but RedBull also benefited from Ferrari's own mistakes, you have to be fair. In addition, Ferrari did not bring any updates because of the sprint race and the resulting lack of time. They will probably come in Miami, where there is a completely new track and the forces can change again.

But in any case, in contrast to the last seasons, this season 2 cars are on a par, even though I think Ferrari still has a bit more room for improvement, but Red Bull has managed to make it very difficult to overtake them on the straights, which is definitely a small advantage.

Cnut237

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

Redbull deserved the victory today, too many mistakes by Ferrari.

But I don't understand who likes this track, I hate it.

It is almost impossible for overtaking, look at Hamilton with Gasly.

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

Red Bull did but it's not just the mistakes from Ferrari. Have you noticed that both Red Bull cars have had faster race pace at Imola? Leclerc couldn't challenge either Verstappen or Perez for their spots on the track. It was really surprising esp after seeing how Leclerc lead around 90% of the sprint race... It looks like I'd have to put betting on 'winner of race, pole position' every GP on hold. Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

And I don't mind Imola. If they were to remove Imola from the calendar due to impossibility of overtaking then remove Monaco and a couple others too.

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Quote from: dezoel on April 25, 2022, 12:16:34 AM

If we are talking about the "best car" then I would have picked Red Bull over Ferrari this year, and everyone was so hyped about Ferrari so far that they keep on forgetting Red Bull does win when they can finish races.

The main problem is that, if Red Bull can't finish races then we are going to see them lose out on many many points because of that. Like for example we have seen that Red Bull managed to overtake Ferrari and they looked much better just even on sprint right? This means during the race they would be even better. However, if they end up not being able to finish the race then they can't get even a single point.

This weekend the Red Bull definitely was the superior car. This was obvious in the qualifying in the sprint and also in the race on sunday. It is normal that people are hyped about the performance of this years Ferrari because i think no one expected them to make such a big step forward. I mean they were so far behind in the previous years and now they can fight for the championship again. Red Bull already had a competitive car in the last season and therefore people just expected them to have a good car this year again. That is also the reason why the bad performance of Mercedes is so surprising for almost everyone because we are so used to Mercedes dominating everything.

Koal-84

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Quote from: swogerino on April 25, 2022, 05:34:36 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

Redbull deserved the victory today, too many mistakes by Ferrari.

But I don't understand who likes this track, I hate it.

It is almost impossible for overtaking, look at Hamilton with Gasly.

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

I think the overtaking is difficult now that with the new regulations we are seeing times compared to track records of 3-4 seconds more,Imola otherwise is a legendary track and we saw last year a great battle between Hamilton and Verstappen and then a lot of overtaking took place last year,the problems with overtaking is just because of the new regulations from what I saw yesterday.However bold guys did overtake,Hamilton just wasn't motivated enough to make that pass as he was fighting in the back of the grid.

I also like Imola just an old school track, it's hard to overtake there as has been mentioned for the brave guys. Definitely Hamilton in the inferior car is not that motivated this year.

What I love about the old school tracks every mistake is punished see Ferrari, Leclerc was over motivated and lucky to score any points at all, Sainz was just unlucky like Mir in MotoGP, but that's the way it is on the old school tracks with gravel beds, you get stuck right away on the new tracks like in France you just keep driving...

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