Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 414.

Cnut237

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Quote from: tokeweed on December 06, 2020, 09:38:58 AM

it's Merc 1 - 2 with Bottas in pole position. Put Verstappen, Leclerc, Vettel, maybe Ricciardo, maybe Raikkonen, maybe Perez, maaaybe even Norris in that Merc, they'll get pole.

Not convinced Vettel or Raikkonen would be up there, but agree with the others. Still, if they were partnering Hamilton instead of Bottas, they'd be fighting for second, not first

Quote from: tokeweed on December 06, 2020, 09:38:58 AM

I guess... But Merc's decision of the switching of engineers back and forth was a little sketchy imho. And 5 points is enough to prove that engineers do play a part, if all things being equal.

I think the main effect of the engineer change was in Hamilton's mind. Probably it had little to no actual effect for the races, but it certainly affected Hamilton's mindset. And a key reason for Rosberg's triumph in 2016 was that he was able to exploit Hamilton's mental state.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Cnut237 on December 05, 2020, 12:14:13 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on December 05, 2020, 09:40:10 AM

Remember the time when Mercedes had Rosberg and Hamilton's engineers switched? And Rosberg started to win races and eventually won the driver's championship?

I don't think that had much if any effect. Rosberg won in 2016 partly through Hamilton's bad luck, and partly through Hamilton's complacency in thinking he would always beat Rosberg. Whilst the reliability problems suffered by Hamilton did cost him the championship (he lost by 5 points), Hamilton did also (metaphorically) take his foot off the gas a little (as well as being uncharacteristically weak on races starts) and Rosberg took full advantage. The final few races of the 2016 season are where I think we see the emergence of the Hamilton we see now, the relentless ultra-consistent winning machine, and it was Rosberg who forced him to raise his game to this new level. I think at the end of the season Rosberg knew he'd been lucky as well as right on the edge for the whole season, and decided to retire at the top rather than face the prospect of continuing to race and never beating Hamilton to the championship again.

I guess... But Merc's decision of the switching of engineers back and forth was a little sketchy imho. And 5 points is enough to prove that engineers do play a part, if all things being equal.

Anyway, it's Merc 1 - 2 with Bottas in pole position. Put Verstappen, Leclerc, Vettel, maybe Ricciardo, maybe Raikkonen, maybe Perez, maaaybe even Norris in that Merc, they'll get pole.

swogerino

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 06, 2020, 07:40:21 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 05, 2020, 04:38:24 PM

Told you, no doubt at all Russell is a top driver in the same category as LeClerc and Verstappen, will He be the next driver for Mercedes when Hamilton will retire?

I hoped till the last second for the pole and he was off by 0.026s, meh this also demonstrates what I saying for the last 2 years... Bottas is so a mediocre driver...

Amazing lap for LeClerc too he did a miracle with his car.

Mercedes in the first row was to be expected, but the Verstappen was so close and LeLerc drove a magic lap 😱, so Russell can not only make bis first Pointe this year, he can win today 💪

One thing is for sure and that is without Hamilton driving the race will be more beautiful to watch as all the top three will fight hard for the win today.The track is a small one so should have quite a lot of laps and plenty of action for us to see.I predict Safety Car will be present in this race as accidents are sure to happen from what I have seen in the qualifying,the drivers were slowing down to help each other not get crash but the race is a different thing.

Koal-84

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 05, 2020, 04:38:24 PM

Told you, no doubt at all Russell is a top driver in the same category as LeClerc and Verstappen, will He be the next driver for Mercedes when Hamilton will retire?

I hoped till the last second for the pole and he was off by 0.026s, meh this also demonstrates what I saying for the last 2 years... Bottas is so a mediocre driver...

Amazing lap for LeClerc too he did a miracle with his car.

Mercedes in the first row was to be expected, but the Verstappen was so close and LeLerc drove a magic lap 😱, so Russell can not only make bis first Pointe this year, he can win today 💪

-CryptoViking-

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 05, 2020, 04:38:24 PM

Told you, no doubt at all Russell is a top driver in the same category as LeClerc and Verstappen, will He be the next driver for Mercedes when Hamilton will retire?

I hoped till the last second for the pole and he was off by 0.026s, meh this also demonstrates what I saying for the last 2 years... Bottas is so a mediocre driver...

Amazing lap for LeClerc too he did a miracle with his car.

I also think that Russell has a lot of potential and that he could be really great driver, but feel it is a bit early for him, he has room to grow. Leclerc did a beast lap with that Ferrari, really that was a one time lap and it looked so good him staying in and not making another go, knowing he can't improve after that lap haha

marioantonini

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 05, 2020, 04:38:24 PM

Told you, no doubt at all Russell is a top driver in the same category as LeClerc and Verstappen, will He be the next driver for Mercedes when Hamilton will retire?

I hoped till the last second for the pole and he was off by 0.026s, meh this also demonstrates what I saying for the last 2 years... Bottas is so a mediocre driver...

Amazing lap for LeClerc too he did a miracle with his car.

Russel deserves to drive mercedes in 2021, unfortunately hamilton does not want a fast teammate and at the moment he commands him.

but if russel were to win tomorrow (and probably he will also run the next race since there are strict rules for those who have had the covid) mercedes could impose it on hamilton in 2022, because surely Hamilton will sign a contract of at least 3 years.

bad figure instead for fittipaldi, last one almost 1 second away from Magnussen (on such a small circuit), I don't understand why to let a driver who hasn't driven for 2 years in race

coinlocket$

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Told you, no doubt at all Russell is a top driver in the same category as LeClerc and Verstappen, will He be the next driver for Mercedes when Hamilton will retire?

I hoped till the last second for the pole and he was off by 0.026s, meh this also demonstrates what I saying for the last 2 years... Bottas is so a mediocre driver...

Amazing lap for LeClerc too he did a miracle with his car.

marioantonini

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i have bet 100 euro to Russel in pole position at odd 6 to betfair and lose for only 0,026 second Grin

really amazing qualify, all very close in terms of times, tomorrow will be a very close race, even if Russel in the post qualifying interviews stated that it will be really difficult for him tomorrow, as he is uncomfortable in the car, being taller than Hamilton

CLS63

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It was really an enjoyable qualifying. I think that Russell was really good considering this is his first times with Mercedes. He was nearly taking the pole position but Bottas took it. I think that we will watch a very enjoyable race too. I hope Russell wins the race and gets his first win in F1.

boltz

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Bottas took the pole but Russel was closer than ever as he only spend 2 days on that car besides Bottas, who is driving the same Mercedes for the last 4 years. In my opinion, if Russel would have another shot this year I think he will take the pole without any doubts as the look in his eyes after the qualy ended tells that he is a future champ and it's only a matter of time.

coinlocket$

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Ok, free practice 3, Ferrari got a good time earlier when the track was slower, maybe this time they can both pass in the Q3?

We probably see 3 cars in the top within 2-3 tenths of a second, depending on what will do Russell.

Russell is doing great and has a problem only with 1 curve if he fixes it he can fight for the pole, he needs to adjust his breaking point he needs to find the confidence to brake later with the better car.

Besides that, we probably see 3 cars in the top 4 cars at the end and the other 15ish card in half of the second, probably 10 cars in 2 tenths of a second.

Cnut237

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Quote from: tokeweed on December 05, 2020, 09:40:10 AM

Remember the time when Mercedes had Rosberg and Hamilton's engineers switched? And Rosberg started to win races and eventually won the driver's championship?

I don't think that had much if any effect. Rosberg won in 2016 partly through Hamilton's bad luck, and partly through Hamilton's complacency in thinking he would always beat Rosberg. Whilst the reliability problems suffered by Hamilton did cost him the championship (he lost by 5 points), Hamilton did also (metaphorically) take his foot off the gas a little (as well as being uncharacteristically weak on races starts) and Rosberg took full advantage. The final few races of the 2016 season are where I think we see the emergence of the Hamilton we see now, the relentless ultra-consistent winning machine, and it was Rosberg who forced him to raise his game to this new level. I think at the end of the season Rosberg knew he'd been lucky as well as right on the edge for the whole season, and decided to retire at the top rather than face the prospect of continuing to race and never beating Hamilton to the championship again.

jostorres

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What concerns me if I were to be Mercedes is not that Russel is first, that is a great thing and he should be happy about it, I doubt that will be the case in the actual race and I doubt that kid is as good as advertised and only takes advantage of years of practice and also the best car by miles in this race so getting the top spot could be nothing at all, get Verstappen instead with a high amount of money and you will basically be guaranteeing a championship spot for your team forever.

However Bottas was 11th in these practices, doesn't that concern Mercedes? Like if his mind is out of the race and thinks about this Russel deal and reads about everyone, that really would concern me. They need Bottas to put 100% in while Hamilton is, they can't really deal with a disgruntled racer when Hamilton is not there.

dre1982

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Verstappen the fastest in de last free practice. Will be a great qualification. They are so close to each other

ongkok87

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Don't think Hamilton is very upset. He has already become a milestone in a convincing way anyway, nothing or no one has even come close.
Verstappen was disappointing. When you hear Verstappen, it is always the engines fault. Maybe his behavior was even more disappointed than his results.

tokeweed

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 04, 2020, 11:04:11 AM

Told yo, Russell is so strong but until now he got only a Williams...

1st hour with Mercedes and he is already on TOP 1.

Imagine being Bottas right now.

It's not really that simple and it isn't the complete story imho. Remember the time when Mercedes had Rosberg and Hamilton's engineers switched? And Rosberg started to win races and eventually won the driver's championship?

swogerino

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Quote from: boltz on December 04, 2020, 09:13:42 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 04, 2020, 11:04:11 AM

Told yo, Russell is so strong but until now he got only a Williams...

1st hour with Mercedes and he is already on TOP 1.

Imagine being Bottas right now.

Russel is well known a great driver and in my opinion the most talented on the younger generation. Furthermore, he won esports F1 before the championship began and now, finally , he has a good car that he can prove that he will be a future world champion.

I heard that he run the car with low fuel in order to be lighter so he could learn the car faster but anyway, the kid is a super talent of F1 and Bottas should be aware of that. The fact that he didn't get a seat for next year tells me that somehow Lewis knows that Russel can be a Rosberg from 2016 and steal a championship out of nowhere.

I agree.Russell maybe cannot win the race but I think now based on his free practices performance he can win the Pole Position today as this layout is a very short track for F1 at only 54.4 seconds a lap.In the race I hope he wins too but many things can happen in a race and he simply lack the experience to this.

boltz

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 04, 2020, 11:04:11 AM

Told yo, Russell is so strong but until now he got only a Williams...

1st hour with Mercedes and he is already on TOP 1.

Imagine being Bottas right now.

Russel is well known a great driver and in my opinion the most talented on the younger generation. Furthermore, he won esports F1 before the championship began and now, finally , he has a good car that he can prove that he will be a future world champion.

I heard that he run the car with low fuel in order to be lighter so he could learn the car faster but anyway, the kid is a super talent of F1 and Bottas should be aware of that. The fact that he didn't get a seat for next year tells me that somehow Lewis knows that Russel can be a Rosberg from 2016 and steal a championship out of nowhere.

LTU_btc

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Honestly, I didn't expected that Russel can perform so well on his first practices on Mercedes car. Very impressive. If he will win qualifying, I don't know how Bottas should feel Cheesy

.
Qualifying should be interesting. Considering that track is very short, interesting how all 20 cars fill in the track. It may be not easy to make good lap time if you will be in the traffic.

Quote from: marioantonini on December 04, 2020, 05:46:22 PM

i was seeing the rerun of free practice on sky and they said a really funny news.
someone on monday, before the announcement of russel in mercedes for sunday's race, managed to bet in england on russel winner of the grand prix at 1000, as he was still given as a williams driver

Wow, interesting how much did he bet on it.

marioantonini

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i was seeing the rerun of free practice on sky and they said a really funny news.
someone on monday, before the announcement of russel in mercedes for sunday's race, managed to bet in england on russel winner of the grand prix at 1000, as he was still given as a williams driver

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