Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 46.

Distraction

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Another race week has arrived already!

It is Monaco Grand Prix maybe but it is still nice to be able to watch F1 quite often. This track is all about qualifying effort considering how narrow the track is.

When it comes to the weather...

Source: Formula 1 official website

There is some rain probability during qualifying. If it happens the session can get more exciting. It is already a quite challenging track which needs full concentration every second. On a slippy Monaco track that concentration level must be as high as possible. Otherwise the barriers are really unforgiving. Tongue

I might bet on Norris or Leclerc to get the pole position to add some extra fun into it.

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When you upgrade a car, you do not have all the data that you want to have, you have all the data that you test for, but during a race itself is the only time the test will give you the full results.

Even this season Max had a situation where he had to retire the car, there was literally a brake on fire that blew, did we see anything like that in the past two seasons? Of course not, and we just need to keep an eye on all of those things. Mclaren is being smart about not pushing it further, Norris could have pushed to the highest level all race long but then maybe the car wouldn't be able to keep a hold of itself if it was pushed that much, so they take it easy, and pushed only at the last few laps, which was nearly enough, it was less than a second.

retreat

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 22, 2024, 07:22:52 AM

You saying we'll see the tide turn this season with the McLarens and the Ferraris catching up in car development in the next few races? :/ If so, yes please... I for one would love to see a more competitive season among the guys at the top. Throw in Mercedes in there too. They have been lagging the last couple of seasons.

Mercedes is in quite a bad condition at the moment, their team is not showing good progress, which is in contrast to their customer, McLaren, which is actually showing quite good performance at the moment. Even worse, many people say that the current Mercedes car is like a "cart" because they are a team that is usually at the top, but now they are competing with Haas and VCARB, that's how bad they are. At this point, Mercedes is just trying to maintain their position and considers that this season is no longer competitive for them.

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Quote from: tokeweed on May 22, 2024, 07:22:52 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on May 21, 2024, 05:02:55 PM

Let's say that the future promises well with a challenge between Max Norris and Leclerc.

However, a lot will depend on the car available.
Redbull is still the main force (with Max) but it is no longer dominant like in previous years and now they have also lost the Messi of the engineers.

You saying we'll see the tide turn this season with the McLarens and the Ferraris catching up in car development in the next few races? :/ If so, yes please... I for one would love to see a more competitive season among the guys at the top. Throw in Mercedes in there too. They have been lagging the last couple of seasons.

Anyway Joylon Palmer has something to say about McLaren and closing the gap vs Red Bull. Enjoy...

Are McLaren Closing The Gap On Red Bull? | Jolyon Palmer’s F1 TV Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk_6wCxNg0

I think McLaren surely is and the problem is this exact next track during this weekend which we will be in Monaco.This can be a double edged sword as it can prove very much beneficial to McLaren which can win the race if they get the pole position as we know how difficult if not impossible is to overtake in this track.If they have problems though and they start from the 2nd row of the grid or even lower it can impact their race for the worse.Whichever the case one sure thing in Monaco is that will be a boring race as the pole sitter if he gets out first from the first corner most likely will win the race.

tokeweed

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on May 21, 2024, 05:02:55 PM

Let's say that the future promises well with a challenge between Max Norris and Leclerc.

However, a lot will depend on the car available.
Redbull is still the main force (with Max) but it is no longer dominant like in previous years and now they have also lost the Messi of the engineers.

You saying we'll see the tide turn this season with the McLarens and the Ferraris catching up in car development in the next few races? :/ If so, yes please... I for one would love to see a more competitive season among the guys at the top. Throw in Mercedes in there too. They have been lagging the last couple of seasons.

Anyway Joylon Palmer has something to say about McLaren and closing the gap vs Red Bull. Enjoy...

Are McLaren Closing The Gap On Red Bull? | Jolyon Palmer’s F1 TV Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk_6wCxNg0

FanEagle

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Quote from: Distraction on May 21, 2024, 04:43:17 AM

I agree with all the people who think this was a boring race. Imola track was already a really narrow one. But I still thought we would see some competition between Ferrari and McLaren. Piastri was the only one with an overtake among those drivers but he did it while Sainz was in pit. Tongue

By the way wasn't Sainz really slow in this race?

Norris really made me excited also during last laps. If we had a safety car in the first times he started to drop the gap with Verstappen then I believe he could have really taken the lead.

I'm loving this season a lot. It is much more thrilling than the last one. Grin

Honestly, I don't. I feel like it was fun, specially the last few laps, Norris almost caught Max and watching that gave me a feeling of 2021 max/Lewis type of battle, and if I am right and if all goes well then we may actually see that next year. The reason? Red Bull hasn't gotten any better this year at all, Mclaren has and they are getting quite close, in fact I could say that Mclaren may actually have a better car but Max is an insane driver so it is not obvious but look at Perez and you will see it.

One more thing, Newey is out, and I am sure many other engineers will follow him too, so Red Bull will not be any better next season neither, whereas Mclaren is getting much better. So this race gave me hope for 1.5 more seasons, if you know where to look.

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Quote from: retreat on May 21, 2024, 01:41:32 AM

The McLaren team tried to play it as safe as possible because they were concerned about the reliability of their car and if they tried to push it early on they would miss the moment at the end. So maybe their strategy was to play it safe at the start and then push at the end, and while hoping that the safety car would be brought out to reset the race, like they did at the Miami GP. However, this method apparently did not work at the Imola GP, so they were only able to finish in P2.

So you agree that they are not confident with their car then? Is that the results of their team com? I wonder what makes them that cautious if past results show they can at least push earlier than the last 10 laps. Track condition, or are there other reasons?

I don't think relying on a safety car to enter the race is a reliable strategy. You're pushing your luck too much if you always rely on that to change the tide IMO. Well, not like this is their exact strategy anyway. Hopefully, they learn from this and make better strategic decisions so this season will be competitive. CMIIW.

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Let's say that the future promises well with a challenge between Max Norris and Leclerc.

However, a lot will depend on the car available.
Redbull is still the main force (with Max) but it is no longer dominant like in previous years and now they have also lost the Messi of the engineers.

Distraction

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I agree with all the people who think this was a boring race. Imola track was already a really narrow one. But I still thought we would see some competition between Ferrari and McLaren. Piastri was the only one with an overtake among those drivers but he did it while Sainz was in pit. Tongue

By the way wasn't Sainz really slow in this race?

Norris really made me excited also during last laps. If we had a safety car in the first times he started to drop the gap with Verstappen then I believe he could have really taken the lead.

I'm loving this season a lot. It is much more thrilling than the last one. Grin

karabiber

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The vehicles have grown too big. It's very difficult to pass on such narrow tracks and the cars can't even get next to each other. And then you end up with such a boring race. The Imola GP was a dull race except for Norris catching Verstappen in the last laps. I like the Italian and European circuits, but I think it makes sense that Imola is off the calendar. Or this GP could have stayed in memory of Senna, but I don't think the F1 management would have cared about that. I don't think it was nice that only Verstappen wasn't wearing a Senna t-shirt at the Senna memorial.

Ferrari and McLaren are now championship contenders. If Perez continues his bad run, the Red Bull team championship will remain a dream. McLaren is at a very good level in terms of car development. Their upward trajectory since 2023 in Austria, coupled with the second update package coming soon, should see McLaren win more races in the second half of the season. Ferrari are also in good shape and wins could come from them too. Even though the big update package they brought here didn't work as well as they would have liked, the foundation of their cars is solid. The second half of the season will be more exciting.

retreat

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Quote from: joniboini on May 20, 2024, 08:23:05 PM

I remember seeing a meme about how Norris changed for the last 10 laps in every race he did for the last few months. Is this his recent habit or is he always this way? I'm not following F1 closely so I don't know much about it. That being said, some comments suggest that he or his team did this because they were not confident that their car could race against Red Bull's car from the beginning. How true do you think this is? Norris's latest comment about one more lap fuels this meme analysis even further on social media as far as I can see.

The McLaren team tried to play it as safe as possible because they were concerned about the reliability of their car and if they tried to push it early on they would miss the moment at the end. So maybe their strategy was to play it safe at the start and then push at the end, and while hoping that the safety car would be brought out to reset the race, like they did at the Miami GP. However, this method apparently did not work at the Imola GP, so they were only able to finish in P2.
I'm just waiting for what surprises McLaren will present at the Monaco GP, since it is a very difficult race and there will definitely be tough competition, not only from RB but also Ferrari.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on May 20, 2024, 11:29:02 AM

Because Norris was really good at saving ERS for a big attempt during last lap of the race. But still somehow Verstappen managed to keep him behind. Maybe Norris could have overtaken him though if we had 1 more lap before the finish.

I remember seeing a meme about how Norris changed for the last 10 laps in every race he did for the last few months. Is this his recent habit or is he always this way? I'm not following F1 closely so I don't know much about it. That being said, some comments suggest that he or his team did this because they were not confident that their car could race against Red Bull's car from the beginning. How true do you think this is? Norris's latest comment about one more lap fuels this meme analysis even further on social media as far as I can see.

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Quote from: swogerino on May 19, 2024, 10:47:26 AM

Max is a masterpiece of a driver I must say in the last laps fighting without battery and with tires gone against a McLaren that surely has upgraded their car to a huge performance and if there were just 2-3 couple of laps more I am sure Lando would have gotten his 2nd win which would have been also a back to back yet Max managed to win the race against all odds.This shows that the driver can make a difference in such situations but are exactly these situations that decide a Championship as who has more chances to win,Leclerc unfortunately remains just an average driver and no one should expect world Championships from him,he is simply not good enough as this race showed once again.

The battery condition of these 2 drivers was like this in those exciting moments.

This was enough to make me more hyped honestly. Because Norris was really good at saving ERS for a big attempt during last lap of the race. But still somehow Verstappen managed to keep him behind. Maybe Norris could have overtaken him though if we had 1 more lap before the finish.

I really admire McLaren this season. They are very competitive. Norris - Piastri both are doing their best. I think McLaren will compete with Ferrari for 2nd place and finish the season as the 3rd at worst. Wink

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Oh so Verstappen won again? Wow... Not. Cheesy

But hopefully we get another shot at getting Verstappen getting lined at 3.00 for quali. That's a pump fist bet.

Here's the schedule for the next race. Should be good at quali with the McLarens looking strong at the last race. Their momentum could continue in Monaco.

2024 F1 Monaco GP Schedule
Track: Circuit De Monaco

May 24: Practice 1 13:30 - 14:30
May 24: Practice 2 17:00 - 18:00
May 25: Practice 3 12:30 - 13:30
May 25: Qualifying 16:00 - 17:00
May 26: Race 15:00

retreat

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on May 19, 2024, 10:39:11 AM

I'd like to say "What a race!" but I can't. It was quite boring as we didn't see much change in top places. However the last moments of the race were really exciting. I don't know how but Verstappen started to lose a lot of pace and a new chance was born for Norris to go for his 2nd win in his career right after achieving the 1st one.

The last 10 laps were like a roller coaster for me, Norris and Max's battle really kept me entertained - they showed the fight that should be shown in an F1 race. Especially when Max said on the radio that his battery only had 30% left, that really made me happy, but yeah luck wasn't with Norris, if there were 2 more laps, I'm sure that Norris could get P1. And for Charles, I'm a little disappointed with him even though in the FP session he showed a very good performance, but yeah this is a race anything can happen, hopefully at the Monaco GP we can see that this "Prince of Monaco" can get P1.

Lastly for Logan, I was really sad when he saw him in the interview, it was like he was dead inside and had no hope of surviving in F1. Even though in general, we can see that his performance is better than Albon, but it's just that he doesn't get more exposure. Hopefully, if Andretti enters F1, he can get a driver's position there, because he has the potential, he just needs the right team for him.

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Oh man, if there was even just one more lap, I am sure that Norris was just about to takeover, it really looked like we are going to end up with Norris getting two wins in a row and that would have been shocking to the whole world, he showed today that last win wasn't just safety car luck, and sure that helped but today he showed that he can go toe to toe. Now all depends on next race, if Norris could be within like just 5 seconds, even if he loses, I am sure that odds everywhere will change. Last I checked, it was like 1.03 or something silly for Max to win, and after last win and this second place of nearly winning, I am pretty sure that one more close race and odds for Norris will skyrocket.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on May 19, 2024, 10:39:11 AM

I'd like to say "What a race!" but I can't. It was quite boring as we didn't see much change in top places. However the last moments of the race were really exciting. I don't know how but Verstappen started to lose a lot of pace and a new chance was born for Norris to go for his 2nd win in his career right after achieving the 1st one.

Verstappen still won but in the last lap my heart was beating at a much higher rate. Grin

Thanks to them we saw some action. Leclerc did a good job by finishing right behind Norris but maybe he could have also been more competitive for 2nd place if he didn't make a big mistake at a turn.

It was not a very exciting race, but at least it seems like there are more watchable races compared to last year. Last year there were races that I turned off in the middle of the race. It was a problem-free race for the teams, but the race, which we expected to be tense, if not about the passes, then about the risks, was very calm. I would like one of sainz, norris, piastri to win. Of course, there is also a max who received 3 track limit warnings in 11 laps and drove 52 laps without error. Towards the end, whether it was due to tyres or some other reason, his pace dropped, but he knew how to win again.

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short week off.

In 4 days we'll be back on track in Monaco at Leclerc's home.
Rain is forecast for the weekend, without rain let's prepare for the most boring Grand Prix in F1.
Once it was interesting as a Grand Prix with many accidents of drivers crashing, with these cars and their technology it has become a very rare event.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on May 19, 2024, 02:35:20 PM

Quote from: Pulsar77 on May 19, 2024, 10:39:11 AM

I'd like to say "What a race!" but I can't. It was quite boring as we didn't see much change in top places. However the last moments of the race were really exciting. I don't know how but Verstappen started to lose a lot of pace and a new chance was born for Norris to go for his 2nd win in his career right after achieving the 1st one.

Yeah, whole race wasn't most exciting, I was struggling not to fall asleep literally. There wasn't much action, but probably it was something expected, considering that Imola isn't easiest track for overtaking. But end when Norris gave some good pressure for Verstappen made it worth watching.
If Mclaren will manage to keep what they did today, they're capable to fight for wins in some races. While if Ferrari with upgrade expected to fight with Red Bull, now they will have to reach Mclaren somehow.

They are very near to McLaren I would say in the start when using the medium tires,the only difference was with the hard tires,McLaren looked like the best car with those tires compared to every other single team so they have to find how to manage the tires better.Good thing next week we have a great race like that in Monaco which is Leclerc home race and in there the overtaking is much more difficult than here if not impossible,most likely the pole winner will also win the race,so it would be nice for Ferrari or McLaren to hit the pole there and to make another win.It won't be that easy but in a track like Monaco seeing Redbull is only good because of Verstappen it can be beaten,Perez is really not performing with the car now.

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Quote from: Pulsar77 on May 19, 2024, 10:39:11 AM

I'd like to say "What a race!" but I can't. It was quite boring as we didn't see much change in top places. However the last moments of the race were really exciting. I don't know how but Verstappen started to lose a lot of pace and a new chance was born for Norris to go for his 2nd win in his career right after achieving the 1st one.

Yeah, whole race wasn't most exciting, I was struggling not to fall asleep literally. There wasn't much action, but probably it was something expected, considering that Imola isn't easiest track for overtaking. But end when Norris gave some good pressure for Verstappen made it worth watching.
If Mclaren will manage to keep what they did today, they're capable to fight for wins in some races. While if Ferrari with upgrade expected to fight with Red Bull, now they will have to reach Mclaren somehow.

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