Topic: Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - page 10. (Read 71711 times)

Hi All,

Unfortunately I can't reply to everyone individually due to the volume of responses this thread.

First to cover some general points:

I apologise for creating two threads for the same issue, but was attempting to make this information as widely available as possible. Most new users will look at the Bitcoin Discussion page before they come here, and AML information is more useful for new users. I will of course reply to questions in this thread here, and questions in that thread there.

I apologise for perhaps taking too light-hearted an approach to a topic which for some users is a very sensitive issue. To reiterate, we absolutely don't sell personal information and would not do so even if we were legally able to.

To answer some more specific points:

---

@Goat, according to MagicalTux, your account was banned because there were many indicators on your account which pointed to money laundering. I'm very sorry that I inadvertently implied that you were linked to terrorism, I was speaking very generally at that point. Furthermore, as you know we've now cleared up the misunderstanding with you and have since re-enabled your account. To give more details, we noticed that fiat currency withdrawals were going to accounts with different names multiple countries. It also initially appeared that stolen identities were being given in the AML process, as multiple individuals from various countries' IDs had been submitted. As such, we were under the mistaken impression that criminal activity was going on under your account.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience, and the mistake on our part. To make a definitive statement, we are now aware that you are not carrying out any criminal activity using your Mt.Gox account. For those wanting more information, this has also been answered elsewhere: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-golden-week-stand-down-78244

---

@The Joint, I've been given authorisation to answer some of your questions as follows:

1)  What is the exact number of customer service representatives employed by Mt. Gox? 

At present, 3. However, we are about to finalise a contract with an external support provider which will increase this number to 4-5.

2)  What are the exact minimum and exact maximum number of customer service representatives working and available for support at any given time? 

At present, all 3 staff work during Japanese business hours, Monday to Friday. This will soon change to include 24x7 support, including live chat and phone support.

4)  How many hours does a typical customer service representative employed by Mt. Gox work each week?

Staff work roughly 40 hours a week.

5)  In what manner does Mt. Gox hold itself accountable for relaying false information to its customers?  I'm thinking of Inaba's recent- and ongoing thread as I type this question.  It appears that it has been a theme for Mt. Gox to respond to such accusations indirectly, for example by citing AML/KYC regulations, and not directly by responding to the specific accusation.

Unfortunately, like any company Mt.Gox is prone to the occasional mistake. When we do we always try to correct it as quickly as possible, as happened in Goat's case. However, we are legally obliged to not discuss the specifics of ongoing AML investigations which sometimes forces us to be vague and indirect. We are always very sorry in these cases for the manner in which we must communicate.

6)  Is Mt. Gox willing to implement a 'guarantee' policy related to statements made to its customers (e.g. a time-frame wherein Mt. Gox has indicated that it will release frozen funds, wherein a transfer of funds will take place, etc.)?

We can't do this, as much as we'd like to (if I'm understanding your question correctly.) This is mainly because often, the funds won't be frozen by us but by one of our banking partners. Once this happens we have no control over the investigation, we just have to support it as much as we are able or risk having our entire account frozen. If we were to make a statement along the lines of "if your funds have been marked for AML investigation, they will be returned to you regardless of the outcome after XX days" it would be both unenforceable and untrue, as in cases where money laundering can be proven the funds are transferred to the relevant financial regulator pending the outcome of a law enforcement investigation.

---

Tainted coins are an issue completely separate to AML, and as such I can't offer any information on this point. I believe MagicalTux has explained the tainted coin policy elsewhere on the forum recently, for those who are interested.

Bruno, with regards to our terms of service quoted, we are legally obliged to do so. Even though we are based in Japan, we have American customers and as such, under U.S. law, are forced to comply with American authorities. All U.S. users should be aware of this fact, but please note that we would not perform any actions until receiving the relevant court order.

Regarding releasing funds when an account is held for AML processing, we cannot do this for the reason noted under point 6 above in general. In cases where an internal AML investigation is underway (in other words, an investigation being performed by us rather than an external banking institution) then we do have some leeway on this issue depending on the legal circumstances of the hold.

I hope this answers most of the questions which have been asked, I'll now head over to the other thread and answer any outstanding ones there.

If you think Mt Gox is bad wait till you use kalyhost 

They did publish their financials in January.  It's a bit of a pain to work out because they list some items in Yen, some in BTC and some in USD but they listed their monthly operational costs as JYen 5,000,000 (USD 62,900).  They listed their monthly server costs including back ups as USD 5,000.

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20120201.html

LOL


That server couldn't even run a tenth of mtgox's trading engine load.

Well, it seems I've found Mt. Gox's server and, I believe, Dylan (standing next to server). No wonder Bruce didn't show any video of the servers during his stay in Japan last year, for the server was a lot smaller back in the day.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

By the way, the reason I am asking about wage/salary in addition to asking about the number of employed service representatives is so that I can get some idea of whether or not Mt. Gox can afford to hire additional personnel.  I would be more interested in the average salary/wage paid to its customer service reps than specific salaries/wages.

You're not bound by AML/KYC requirements unless you're a reporting entity providing a financial service as defined by the relevant legislation in your country or a non-financial service to which those requirements apply (lawyers, accountants and jewellers have recently become "reporting entities providing a non-financial service" in Australia).

While you don't have any AML/KYC obligations, your bank does and they could actually freeze your account pending verification of your identity and proof of the source of funds if they have reason to believe the transaction is "suspicious".

It is kind of sad to be forced to the expense of insisting on having the information, and of checking it, and of having to store it, securely at that, and after all that expense not even be permitted to sell it so it would pay for itself.

Its not as if the powers that be pay for all that work they insist be done for them.

Maybe said powers should simply provide a signed-statement-of-identity site where Gox et all can just paste a signed message and get back a yes or no as to whether it is signed by person it claims to be from, without the Gox et all even knowing who it is that it is claiming to be, only that whoever it is, it is?

-MarkM-

Two things I'd like address:


1.) if a person transfers fiat from Dwolla or other entity to you and only then becomes aware of your AML/KYC requirements, you NEED an avenue available to reverse the funds or return the funds to the origin if they do not wish to comply.

The fact that my funds were frozen until I complied felt like being bullied...big time.  By holding my funds and demanding my driver's license or passport, you basically stole my funds and refused to give them back since I had no avenue of reversal or refund.

2.) You stated "While it would be a great income stream for us, sadly we are not legally allowed to sell your personal information."....

SADLY?  WTH???

Should I read "sadly" and "it would be a great income stream" to mean that the second you find a legal loophole, out the door goes my personal information? These aren't just email addresses and names and physical addresses. These are SS#s, DL #s, etc.

That was a pretty unnerving thing to hear.

I have an idea. Why don't you and I start a third one, then hopefully the Goons over at SA can start a forth.

If they can't even use a forum correctly, how the hell are they able to keep track of other people's money? I now wouldn't be surprise to learn that both bathrooms at their office--men and women--have urinals installed in each.

~Bruno~

So basically this:

https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service


And well I'm on that page:


Therefore, if I read this correctly, if the long-arm of some US governmental agency is in the process of completing a dossier on me and asked Mt. Gox to close my account as well as provide everything in your database related to me, they would comply?

~Bruno~

Okay, three questions:

1) Why not move MtGox somewhere with no or lax AML laws? Isn't Japan expensive anyway?
2) While I understand Korean/Arabic/Hebrew may be difficult, learning to read Cyrillic script is by no means an impossible task, took me a week after studying for... 5 minutes a day. Unless you don't mind covering translation costs which you should be doing I don't see how that should be a problem for you.
3) Proof of residence - what about those who do not have a fixed place of residence? I know this is probably not very common but I have a friend without an ''official'' place of residence (meaning most govt. officials here think he is homeless) who is interested in Bitcoin, what would he have to submit to comply with your rules?

+1 for taking the time to post this.

This is so fucked up! I just now got to this post at the other thread.

~Bruno~

A client of mine gave me cash for a load of barn wood the other day. I now hold in my hands actual proof that he deals in cocaine, therefore I'm obligated to turn over the cash to my bank so that they can inform the proper authorities about this drug dealer. With that, I ask: At what point do you stop acting as an exchange and become policemen?

~Bruno~

Notice that Dylan did not once comment on that thread of yours, 556j. In fact, the following was his first post (sans company hat) after getting out of Newbie on May 31, a place he asked to get whitelisted back in November of last year. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.932321 I'm beginning to believe that Mt. Gox is run by a bunch of turtles, and I'm not talking about the Ninja kind.

~Bruno~

You forgot to mention when you freeze accounts based on "tainted" coins (the definition of which is left entirely to your discretion) as seen here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mt-gox-thinks-its-the-fed-freezes-acc-based-on-tainted-coins-unlocked-now-73385

Of course after I made a big fuss about it your "legal obligations" were magically lifted and you released funds.

I wrapped my text incorrectly. I was in the processing of fixing it while you were in the process of quoting.

~Bruno~

Now thats a good service you can setup for bitcoin