[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 372.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: newcn on February 20, 2014, 10:34:57 PM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:14:23 PM

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block. All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community? Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

At least for me, I don't want to see any nxt-community members being removed from NEM stakeholder lists. In fact, I'd like to see more nxters joining NEM.
IMO, 2Kool4Skewl should in the list, since he didn't make a statement to quit. it's not fair to be taken out just because he said something negative about NEM. he has a chance to quit later on if he really want to.

It is not about nxt community. It is about NEM community. If someone is not interested in being part of the NEM community, he can leave and I will refund what he contributed in the fundraising process.
I have emphasized several times, the fundraising is a call for participants in building NEM/ Nemcoin network. If someone is not interested in that, he obviously misunderstood the process and should leave.

j23a

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: dzarmush on February 20, 2014, 10:27:31 PM

Quote from: dzarmush on February 20, 2014, 10:21:24 PM

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:

Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

Example.

Someone bought two stakes:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=978256747923058615
Then sent money to a new account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10608880799684994787
Then sent money to another account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12956190138975700589
And bought two more stakes.

Although there is no proof it's the same person, but anyway all these stakes need a closer look, right? So let's start with this kind of audition and see if we can find more evidences.

Wow, you're in for a lot of work. I tried looking at some of the accounts and ouch. I even got lost. If only you could program a computer.

newcn

full member

Activity: 143

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:14:23 PM

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block. All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community? Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

At least for me, I don't want to see any nxt-community members being removed from NEM stakeholder lists. In fact, I'd like to see more nxters joining NEM.
IMO, 2Kool4Skewl should in the list, since he didn't make a statement to quit. it's not fair to be taken out just because he said something negative about NEM. he has a chance to quit later on if he really wants to.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: j23a on February 20, 2014, 10:23:09 PM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:14:23 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 20, 2014, 09:02:06 AM

I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list as I understand that he does not want to be there. In the first 20 pages of the fundraising, many people do not entirely understand about the scope as well as purpose of NEM so it was easy just to post "interested" there by a mistake. Contrary to what used to be in the first page of the fundraising thread , NEM do offer refund after the announcement of detail development plan (probably in 2 weeks or so) so if someone does not feel they fit in with NEM community, they can leave voluntarily.

As written in ournem.com, at this stage NEM is first of all a community of which people share a certain ideas and goals and we going to build NEM/ Nemcoin as our decentralized payment platform together as we go along. I see no reason to keep people that are unhappy with NEM and this approach. There are no coins to share yet so it is not like we are taking anything from anyone. If 2Kool4Skewl wants to join back in, just say so before I make the unified stakeholder list and I will add him in.

The majority of NEM funding comes from Bitcoin and only about 30% of NEM stakeholders appear in NXT discussion before (see an excellent statistics by newcn) so I see NXT and NEM having quite a different demographics, also different technology and purposes. While I think there is a certain aspect of competition between the two blockchain, we can learn from each others as well. Some are developers of both NXT and NEM and they work across the aisle and I think that is a good thing. It will help advancing experiments and innovations in more directions. Compared to Bitcoin and other POW coins, NXT and NEM have more similarity and we can join force to emphasize our strength in a green economical network and highlight the problems with the computational arm-races used by Bitcoin and other POW coins. Let's focus on cooperation and innovation instead of envy and hatred as that are also NEM's core concepts and principles.

BTW, we appreciate active participants much more than passive ones/ investors. So contact me if you want to help in any way. Thanks.

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block. All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community? Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

Seems fair to me. You don't seem happy with NEM, nor do you seem to like it, talking negative about it, spreading FUD despite being a stakeholder. So he's giving you an option since it seems that perhaps you said interested without really knowing much about Nem. So he's doing you a favor and removing you from the list, and giving you the option of joining now that you're more familiar with Nem. So what's your decision.

Of course it seems fair to you, your Nem stake just grew. I didn't say I didn't like it. I said that I thought it was redundant because it lacks feasible innovation and I think fundraising is unethical under these conditions.

UtopianFuture didn't give me an option, he removed me. "I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list" Now I have to reassert my interest? What gives him the power to remove peoples' stakes? Maybe, he'll do a favor for some other people too if they say the wrong thing.

Jaguar0625

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:19:25 PM

Quote from: patmast3r on February 20, 2014, 11:33:48 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:50:46 AM

...

1. I heard that Nem is different because you're translating the code. I don't think that's innovative.
2. I think POI is a flawed concept.
3. I'm not sure what is meant by "different types of node", maybe someone can enlighten me.

...

I added the numbers in the above quite but i did not alter the text.

1. Translation is not the goal here. AFAIK NEM is also going to be built with JAVA so it's not the right word either. I think the goal is to have our own solid codebase and since quite a few things are being changed it's probably better to start over.

2. How so ? (I'm actually interested so plz do answer

)

3. From the dev plan (I thought you read it ?):

Quote

NEM will have two types of nodes: server nodes and normal nodes.
Server nodes will store a full blockchain history. The full blockchain will serve as a public ledger, which will be important in order to preserve blockchain explorer functionality. Server nodes will publish all nodes and also a consolidated snapshot.

Normal nodes will connect to the network and request a consolidated snapshot from the server nodes. This snapshot will contain balance information for all accounts as well information about outstanding orders. Snapshots will be made daily and will include data from all confirmed blocks. After syncing the snapshot, the client will need to sync all blocks that were made after the snapshot up to the current time. After syncing those blocks, the client will be ready to begin interacting with the NEM network.
This should minimize the amount of time it takes a fresh client to sync the full blockchain and get online.
A snapshot will be generated daily. When a new snapshot is confirmed by the blockchain, a special no-fee snapshot transaction will be sent to a special account. New clients can validate the most recent snapshot by using hash attached to the last transaction sent to the special account. Snapshots will be validated after 1440 confirmations.

How will POI deal with people who have dynamic IPs?

The server / normal node scheme seems like it adds a trust factor into the equation.

The same way NXT POS does. The transaction graph will be based on account numbers, not ip addresses.

Jaguar0625

sr. member

Activity: 299

Merit: 250

Quote from: newcn on February 20, 2014, 10:10:58 PM

Hi,NEM devs:

I wonder what kind of account-address will NEM use? the nxt-digit style or the BTC-style? if it's the nxt-digit style, I suggest adding a few checksum characters in front of the account number, the checksum characters can be used to validate the account number. The number of checksum characters do not have to be fixed, it can be varied in a range(you can use letters for checksum characters only,then it can be distinguished from account numbers), so ppl can choose some accounts with meaningful checksums, for example, I will select accounts start with newcn, say, newcn293929102290

Account numbers will be in the BTC-style.

dzarmush

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1001

Quote from: dzarmush on February 20, 2014, 10:21:24 PM

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:

Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

Example.

Someone bought two stakes:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=978256747923058615
Then sent money to a new account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10608880799684994787
Then sent money to another account:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=12956190138975700589
And bought two more stakes.

Although there is no proof it's the same person, but anyway all these stakes need a closer look, right? So let's start with this kind of audition and see if we can find more evidences.

Thingamajig

hero member

Activity: 497

Merit: 501

2Kool4Skewl

Were three consecutive posts necessary? really?

Although I think some of the things you say are legitimate criticisms (I emphasize SOME). You seldom seem to be providing any real solutions or idea's - just content to shoot down NEM with every post that you make. Utopian has expressed repeatedly people can leave voluntarily, the choice is there. Yet you continually post negatively about NEM implying you're not interested or operating on an agenda.

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: gabbo876 on February 20, 2014, 09:09:47 PM

Quote from: play4ce on February 17, 2014, 04:05:06 PM

Hello Nemunity,

here is the logo in white, for the new website: ournem.com

BTT is full of Banners!
keep up the good work Grin

The most elegant logo so far...

+1

I agree. I still like this the best.

j23a

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:14:23 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 20, 2014, 09:02:06 AM

I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list as I understand that he does not want to be there. In the first 20 pages of the fundraising, many people do not entirely understand about the scope as well as purpose of NEM so it was easy just to post "interested" there by a mistake. Contrary to what used to be in the first page of the fundraising thread , NEM do offer refund after the announcement of detail development plan (probably in 2 weeks or so) so if someone does not feel they fit in with NEM community, they can leave voluntarily.

As written in ournem.com, at this stage NEM is first of all a community of which people share a certain ideas and goals and we going to build NEM/ Nemcoin as our decentralized payment platform together as we go along. I see no reason to keep people that are unhappy with NEM and this approach. There are no coins to share yet so it is not like we are taking anything from anyone. If 2Kool4Skewl wants to join back in, just say so before I make the unified stakeholder list and I will add him in.

The majority of NEM funding comes from Bitcoin and only about 30% of NEM stakeholders appear in NXT discussion before (see an excellent statistics by newcn) so I see NXT and NEM having quite a different demographics, also different technology and purposes. While I think there is a certain aspect of competition between the two blockchain, we can learn from each others as well. Some are developers of both NXT and NEM and they work across the aisle and I think that is a good thing. It will help advancing experiments and innovations in more directions. Compared to Bitcoin and other POW coins, NXT and NEM have more similarity and we can join force to emphasize our strength in a green economical network and highlight the problems with the computational arm-races used by Bitcoin and other POW coins. Let's focus on cooperation and innovation instead of envy and hatred as that are also NEM's core concepts and principles.

BTW, we appreciate active participants much more than passive ones/ investors. So contact me if you want to help in any way. Thanks.

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block. All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community? Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think good and hard about what has just happened here.

Seems fair to me. You don't seem happy with NEM, nor do you seem to like it, talking negative about it, spreading FUD despite being a stakeholder. So he's giving you an option since it seems that perhaps you said interested without really knowing much about Nem. So he's doing you a favor and removing you from the list, and giving you the option of joining now that you're more familiar with Nem. So what's your decision?

dzarmush

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1001

Here's an idea for the public audit.

There are 113 pages of Nxt transactions:

Say I'll check last 23 pages: from 90 to 113. Is there anyone willing to check previous pages? We only need 6 people to check all Nxt transactions and 12 people to double check them.

Update: If you like the idea, I'll create a self-moderated topic where we split pages to check.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: patmast3r on February 20, 2014, 11:33:48 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:50:46 AM

...

1. I heard that Nem is different because you're translating the code. I don't think that's innovative.
2. I think POI is a flawed concept.
3. I'm not sure what is meant by "different types of node", maybe someone can enlighten me.

...

I added the numbers in the above quite but i did not alter the text.

1. Translation is not the goal here. AFAIK NEM is also going to be built with JAVA so it's not the right word either. I think the goal is to have our own solid codebase and since quite a few things are being changed it's probably better to start over.

2. How so ? (I'm actually interested so plz do answer

)

3. From the dev plan (I thought you read it ?):

Quote

NEM will have two types of nodes: server nodes and normal nodes.
Server nodes will store a full blockchain history. The full blockchain will serve as a public ledger, which will be important in order to preserve blockchain explorer functionality. Server nodes will publish all nodes and also a consolidated snapshot.

Normal nodes will connect to the network and request a consolidated snapshot from the server nodes. This snapshot will contain balance information for all accounts as well information about outstanding orders. Snapshots will be made daily and will include data from all confirmed blocks. After syncing the snapshot, the client will need to sync all blocks that were made after the snapshot up to the current time. After syncing those blocks, the client will be ready to begin interacting with the NEM network.
This should minimize the amount of time it takes a fresh client to sync the full blockchain and get online.
A snapshot will be generated daily. When a new snapshot is confirmed by the blockchain, a special no-fee snapshot transaction will be sent to a special account. New clients can validate the most recent snapshot by using hash attached to the last transaction sent to the special account. Snapshots will be validated after 1440 confirmations.

How will POI deal with people who have dynamic IPs?

The server / normal node scheme seems like it adds a trust factor into the equation.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: freigeist on February 20, 2014, 11:31:55 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on February 20, 2014, 10:50:46 AM

I also don't like to see people giving away their Nxt for nothing, which at this time, is what they have done. They have given it away for the promise of something in the future. When I posted "interested", I didn't know that Nem was going to start collecting Nxt and Btc. I think this collection is unethical, because I can't see anything worthy of a dev fund.

Hello.

It seems you have double standards!

This can also be translated to:

Quote

I also don't like to see people giving away their BTC for nothing, which at this time, is what they have done. They have given it away for the promise of something in the future.

"they" = NXT investors at that time before end of Novmeber Wink

At that time there was only a promise from the developer aka "BCNext"!
Do you consider NXT IPO at that time unethical too?

No, because NXT was innovative. I don't think NEM has any functional innovation.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 20, 2014, 09:02:06 AM

I temporarily took 2Kool4Skewl from NEM stakeholder list as I understand that he does not want to be there. In the first 20 pages of the fundraising, many people do not entirely understand about the scope as well as purpose of NEM so it was easy just to post "interested" there by a mistake. Contrary to what used to be in the first page of the fundraising thread , NEM do offer refund after the announcement of detail development plan (probably in 2 weeks or so) so if someone does not feel they fit in with NEM community, they can leave voluntarily.

As written in ournem.com, at this stage NEM is first of all a community of which people share a certain ideas and goals and we going to build NEM/ Nemcoin as our decentralized payment platform together as we go along. I see no reason to keep people that are unhappy with NEM and this approach. There are no coins to share yet so it is not like we are taking anything from anyone. If 2Kool4Skewl wants to join back in, just say so before I make the unified stakeholder list and I will add him in.

The majority of NEM funding comes from Bitcoin and only about 30% of NEM stakeholders appear in NXT discussion before (see an excellent statistics by newcn) so I see NXT and NEM having quite a different demographics, also different technology and purposes. While I think there is a certain aspect of competition between the two blockchain, we can learn from each others as well. Some are developers of both NXT and NEM and they work across the aisle and I think that is a good thing. It will help advancing experiments and innovations in more directions. Compared to Bitcoin and other POW coins, NXT and NEM have more similarity and we can join force to emphasize our strength in a green economical network and highlight the problems with the computational arm-races used by Bitcoin and other POW coins. Let's focus on cooperation and innovation instead of envy and hatred as that are also NEM's core concepts and principles.

BTW, we appreciate active participants much more than passive ones/ investors. So contact me if you want to help in any way. Thanks.

I'm certainly glad that I didn't invest any NXT or BTC for my Nem stake seeing that UtopianFuture and the community is so willing to remove a stakeholder from the genesis block. All I said was that I didn't think the current feature set was innovative and I didn't think collecting for a dev fund was ethical seeing that Nem has no feasible innovation imo.

What does this say about your community? Isn't "UtopianFuture" a misnomer now?

Everyone might want to think long and hard about what has just happened here.

KimNg

member

Activity: 169

Merit: 10

To all the designers, make sure our NEM logo is unique and not similar anything out there.

newcn

full member

Activity: 143

Merit: 100

Hi,NEM devs:

I wonder what kind of account-address will NEM use? the nxt-digit style or the BTC-style? if it's the nxt-digit style, I suggest adding a few checksum characters in front of the account number, the checksum characters can be used to validate the account number. The number of checksum characters do not have to be fixed, it can be varied in a range(you can use letters for checksum characters only,then it can be distinguished from account numbers), so ppl can choose some accounts with meaningful checksums, for example, I will select accounts start with newcn, say, newcn293929102290

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: patmast3r on February 20, 2014, 02:17:56 PM

I think we should brainstorm about how to get a FIAT <-> NEM service going.
Any ideas ?

PayPal shuts you down before you can say "new econom... aaaan your shut down.

If you wan't to work with wire transfer you have to go through tons of legal issues.

Physically sending the money takes way to long.

I will exchange NEM for JPY if you live in Japan.

Chris001

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

electroneum.com

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on February 20, 2014, 08:53:16 PM

Quote from: erkki12 on February 20, 2014, 06:35:25 PM

Quote from: conbos on February 20, 2014, 04:29:25 PM

1. How to get independency from BTC
2. How to transfer value from the real world to NEM in a direct way (so then merchant can use directly)
3. How to establish an easy fiat-NEM exchange that goes in line with point 2

1. Independency from BTC will be only achieved when you can exchange fiat directly into NEM without BTC in the middle. We should as a community now think about funding a site that offers that possibility. Or maybe contacting Graviton about when is he about to implement fiat in dgex...

2. Most merchants will accept NEM only if we get enough buzz around it. As dogecoin can be used to buy real life stuff, can NEM sure as hell be used to buy stuff! It just depends on how aggressive is our marketing plan. Oh an by the way there should be a marketing plan comprised for NEM, so anyone up for the task go ahead!

3. I don't think there is a easy way. The easiest could be to get NEM into an already existing exchange. Trying to come up with an exchange with ourselves is something that I fear will be a horrible task. But if anyone feels up for the task he should go ahead by all means! Otherwise Graviton, I believe, is trying to get dgex into accepting fiat.. Maybe he could do it or then we should contact some other exchanges. But realistically we wont have a chance into getting into any exchange without donations, because NEM will be a new and volatile coin with no guarantees.

In order to disconnect NEM from BTC, we will need a fiat -> NEM exchange. In the US coinbase is the only way to convert fiat to BTC. They've gotten lots of venture funding (so it's probably legal). If anyone can figure out the legality of it, I will be willing to help build an exchange.

+1000

So who has the legal part covered?

If merchants have to convert to BTC this is bad

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: nxt_rainbow on February 20, 2014, 09:10:51 PM

http://www.ournem.com/ is down

Proxy Error

The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request GET http://www.ournem.com/.

Reason: DNS lookup failure for: www.ournem.com

I took it down for 1 day to add some changes. It will be up soon.

nxt_rainbow

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

http://www.ournem.com/ is down

Proxy Error

The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request GET http://www.ournem.com/.

Reason: DNS lookup failure for: www.ournem.com

Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 372. (Read 661525 times)