[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 444.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 06, 2014, 09:09:44 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on February 06, 2014, 09:04:50 AM

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudster and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

yeah i guess you could say that.
To me their both fraudsters as thy are trying to claim more stakes than is allowed for one person.

I think I found another one:

He send 0.0551 BTC to a load of adresses and then bought a stake with each of those:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Ae6YxNMeJWtaLCSzQQe7Pqfb2MFRVbHH2 (sending the 0.0551)

The first 4 (which arent the only ones) which all were used to buy stakes:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EauPVg35rFLScbpEujFCgvJHwoGzBBUhm
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19ukVnz1DNfHFAwYwKU9hkTb6iYaESUFhA
https://blockchain.info/de/address/19qBCvmyhLVVhRTjdnjZeDrMMRM13HTQCz
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1Cuoz1pPdG7bRxMf3cnb1su8jtvDpLJfg1

Looking at this I'm a little worried that we might have more multi-accs than expected.

He seems to have bought 20 - 30 stakes (How much NXT did you put out to find such huge multi-accs ?!

).

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: patmast3r on February 06, 2014, 09:04:50 AM

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

Let's make a distinction between two terms:

"fraudster" : did not send money to NEM; tried to clone other's people hash or made up bogus hash to get in the lists

"multi-acc-ter: who did send money to NEM to be a part of NEM development fund; but he has multiple accounts doing that. These are not fraudsters and as far as they send money to NEM then I would at least thank them for their trust. They also did not violate any pre-defined rules except the "unfairly accumulation" clause. We will refund them later in the cases of big multi acc-ters.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Am I seeing this correctly: https://blockchain.info/de/address/14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

this dude 14BtZgJzUKrHrfz6XnQQAjU2ovN11dXfTX

sent 0.0551 to each of these:

1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q 0.0551 BTC
1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC 0.0551 BTC
132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE 0.0551 BTC

and then each of these payed for a stake:

https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FPQwEHXLFbCERbR6vVbYPgrQiZfXBBN8q
https://blockchain.info/de/address/1EMW1pZWcE6ZaPCjeQtYnwknb7F73zQ1AC
https://blockchain.info/de/address/132d7o2M26ds1W5BRBYUUNExq2HNNd49HE

fraudster or am I reading this wrong ?

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: highscore on February 06, 2014, 08:46:19 AM

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

You have to watch your words as well. I certainly don't consider people sending real money to NEM "fraudsters".

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: highscore on February 06, 2014, 08:46:19 AM

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

Well we have a marketing and referral campaign to attract new users. I made Paypal gateway especially for that as well. Veteran attitude does not suit well with NEM.

And it is already said people can buy stakes for your loved ones/ friends.

highscore

full member

Activity: 286

Merit: 100

almost all new investors are fraudsters with activity:0

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Ad campaign update - the first reddit ad at dogecoin subreddit is almost over. And here is a summary

date impressions clicks click-through (%)
TOTAL * 32,457 604 1.861%

We got more than 600 click from Doge subreddit to our front page. I got a few people asking to pay buy Dogecoin and Litecoin and the registration rate does not seem to slow down at all. So it has to work, right

Anyway I extended the Doge-ad for at least 2 days or until click-through rate falls off. At the same time, an ad on reddit front page "Proof of Stake and a Fair Start. The first egalitarian cryptocurrency. Join NEM to change the world" will start on 2/8. The reason I put it in a front page instead of a crypto-sub-reddit is to raise the awareness of NEM and crypto currency in general. Would be interesting to see what is the click-though percentage though.

The fund raising is running faster than I expected so we might already close shop when the Bitcoin subreddit ad is online on 2/28.

miramare

hero member

Activity: 1162

Merit: 568

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 06, 2014, 06:40:57 AM

Quote from: ekoja on February 06, 2014, 06:28:57 AM

I think nem gains more and more interests now. I'm happy aboutn the great progress NEM have made. Thanks for you great effort.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person. >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone. I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes. I'm shocked by this news. I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM. If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

I know that it's not easy to prevent multibuyin. However, some effort must be taken. e.g. check the transcation history. you can see :
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=6635869272840226493
And of course, people can buy with their multi NXT accounts.
And also need check the brand new IDs with same IPs.

About this account http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=3231774856984709013&offset=1&filter=1

you should thank him because He is actually donating a lot to NEM becasue

"Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation"

we did not have time to check everything thoroughly yet but Counter sockpuppet measure will apply in this case.

You need notice that some "clever" guy registered a lot of new BTT accounts and bought stake for each acc using different NXT acc ID. It's easy. Those acc are all in the staker list.

Hacer88

member

Activity: 80

Merit: 10

Quote from: grimoir on February 06, 2014, 08:20:30 AM

When will be the coin released? Any time period? Or how many people should be stakeholders to get started?

I think in April

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: grimoir on February 06, 2014, 08:20:30 AM

When will be the coin released? Any time period? Or how many people should be stakeholders to get started?

4k is the max cap for stakeholders
3k is considered optimal so it'll prol be something between that or even below 3k if many fraudsters are found.

grimoir

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

When will be the coin released? Any time period? Or how many people should be stakeholders to get started?

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: patmast3r on February 06, 2014, 07:36:37 AM

Quote from: xax515 on February 06, 2014, 07:21:50 AM

Quote from: ekoja on February 06, 2014, 06:28:57 AM

.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person. >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone. I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes. I'm shocked by this news. I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM. If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

Me too, I want to know what will be the limit, 0.2%, 0.4% 0.8%? Huh

We'll see how many stakes have is the limit.

They already warned us:

"In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered."

So what is it now. Will it be considered donation or refunded ?

1. sending money that violates "Counter sockpuppet measure" would be considered donation (from page 81 and up)- very easy to check

2. there are more complicated cases in which multiple addresses are created and funded from a mother account which would not violate "Counter sockpuppet measure" ; in these cases, we can apply the "unfairly accumulation" clause and refund the money if we have solid evidences. I still think about the ceiling limit for these cases; exceeding 0.5% of total stakes could be considered "unfairly accumulation", imho.

There will be a period of public auditing of our registration threads and stakeholder list after the fund raising is over for these issues. At this point, I am focusing on weeding out all the fraudsters first.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: xax515 on February 06, 2014, 07:21:50 AM

Quote from: ekoja on February 06, 2014, 06:28:57 AM

.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person. >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone. I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes. I'm shocked by this news. I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM. If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

Me too, I want to know what will be the limit, 0.2%, 0.4% 0.8%? Huh

We'll see how many stakes have is the limit.

They already warned us:

"In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered."

So what is it now. Will it be considered donation or refunded ?

ctenc001

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: TauMuon on February 06, 2014, 07:25:19 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on February 06, 2014, 07:18:29 AM

Quote from: ctenc001 on February 06, 2014, 07:06:09 AM

I am on the Stakeholder page!
How do I claim my NEM? looking at the blockchain, it appears to be live now? =)

what blockchain are you looking at ?
Did I miss something really major ?!

Yeah, have I missed something too?!

It was an error on my part; got two coins mixed up Roll Eyes

TauMuon

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

NEM Enthusiast

Quote from: patmast3r on February 06, 2014, 07:18:29 AM

Quote from: ctenc001 on February 06, 2014, 07:06:09 AM

I am on the Stakeholder page!
How do I claim my NEM? looking at the blockchain, it appears to be live now? =)

what blockchain are you looking at ?
Did I miss something really major ?!

Yeah, have I missed something too?!

xax515

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

Quote from: ekoja on February 06, 2014, 06:28:57 AM

.

However, I wrote just to express a bit worry that there seems to be some unfair multi buyin. Not 3-5 stakes are bought by one person. >20 or evern > 100 stakes have been bought by someone. I am in a Chinese QQ group on nxt discussion. I heard from someone in the group saying that one of his friend bought 150 NEM stakes and himself owned 20 stakes. I'm shocked by this news. I thought there must be sth wrong. I agree that more paid, more gain. However, it goes too far from the fair purpose of NEM. If 3000 stakes will be sold, 150 means 5% of total amount. That comes to the case of NXT! Anyone holding greater than 10 stakes may make fairness of NEM UNFAIRNESS.

Me too, I want to know what will be the limit, 0.2%, 0.4% 0.8%? Huh

We'll see how many stakes have is the limit.

They already warned us:

"In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered."

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: ctenc001 on February 06, 2014, 07:06:09 AM

I am on the Stakeholder page!
How do I claim my NEM? looking at the blockchain, it appears to be live now? =)

what blockchain are you looking at ?
Did I miss something really major ?!

ctenc001

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

I am on the Stakeholder page!
How do I claim my NEM? looking at the blockchain, it appears to be live now? =)

whitejack82

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Ok. Thank you.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: whitejack82 on February 06, 2014, 06:43:05 AM

I sent you the bitcoins. Do i get an confirmation that I am on the reservation list?
When do we start with the NEM?
Freddy

The stakeholder list will be update every 10 page. next update is at the end of page 50.

Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 444. (Read 661525 times)