Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 442. (Read 661525 times)

This is an awful idea.  We've absolutely beaten the multiple stakes thing to death.  It's perfectly fine how it is.

If you implement this rule, then people will simply start mixing their coins more so you can't trace them back to a single address.


This is supposed to be no envy movement.  Stop hating on the small number of people who spent hours upon hours upon hours upon hours creating new accounts and wallets to acquire more stakes than you (it's not nearly as easy as you think, very time consuming and expensive).  Just be happy that we're all part of the movement. 

A handful of people might have a few extra stakes.  SO WHAT?! This will be the first crypto that won't have any whales owning more than 2%+

wow thats a great idea... lol say every 10 scammers you expose is an additional stake?  maybe?  or some other number besides 10

Very interesting post!
But I think we should not be naive, there is no system that can prevent those who are powerfull FIAT to become powerfull with NEM.
Even a 100% PON forging system would make the powerfull more profitable since there will not be any monetary inflation (or am I seeing this wrong?)

Hmm, this is starting to get really interesting 

I don't mean that more attention on PON would attract more speculation but lowering the attention on POS would. And since one does not go without another this would be the result in my opinion.

Let's assume 100% PON. So anyone can just install a client, setup a node and start forging even without initial stake/investment.
Why would you hold on to your stake if there is no difference in the gain.

I believe this is one of the reasons why NXT is so sucessfull even with the initial distribution issue.

As I said before, I think the main goal should be to establish a stable currency. This doesn't mean that people have to hold on to their stake, it doesn't matter how it's established!

I am really convinced that the price fluctuations are still the main argument not to invest in cryptocurrencies.

If I am making some sort of logical miscalculation here (which is obviously possible since I am still a noob) please put me on the right track. 

Price stability can be only achieved if the coin has good
 distribution at the beginning and has a big user base.
The good distribution of the coins should be kept by the system as long as possible.
Good distribution will be achieved if any user is able to participate and adopt the coin
if he is willing to without restrictions once the NEM system is launched.

During time the capital tends flow into hands of the few.
This is happening with FIAT and it happens with bitcoin as bitcoin is becoming more and more
similar to FIAT regarding centralization.
We see in bitcoin that those who have the power can abuse it to gain more profit
and to gain more power.
Is it not possible for me to participate in bitcoin network as a common user
unless i buy the coin or unless i buy ASIC GPUS or other shit to start mining.

This could for sure be the case with NEM as POS coin if the POS reward is to big because
if it happens  that a few big stake holders will be created during time
and they will become powerful in NEM system as central banks are in FIAT system.
Once the majority of capital is in the hands of the few than it can be subject to manipulation
like coin price can be manipulated in the market and can be dumped and bought back,
similar to "loans" today in fiat where fake crisis and shortage can be made by the few.

To avoid this kind of scenario we need to find best ratio between POS and PON.
Just not to forget that also if to much weight to the PON is given than that
this can maybe be exploited by botnets

Currently suggested ratios are:
40% POS / 60% PON
60% POS / 40% PON

It would be nice if an economic model simulation could be somehow
made before the any decision about this is taken.

thanks, so basically like peercoin with some initial distribution among stake holders.

Utopianfuture: Put a bounty on the head of scammers
Anyone willing to sort through NXT adresses sending NXT to different addresses used to claim extra stakes: go for it. x NEM Bounty for anyone that exposes (and proofs) a scammer

PON = Proof Of Network. As I understand it it's basically you provide infrastructure for the network i.e. running a node and get something in return. The more you support the network the greater the likelyhood of you getting some coins.

Since I can't find any other ressource I'm gessing jaguar came up with it himself ?

yes what is a PON

ok someone point me to a beginners explanation of pon.  Ive never heard about it

I don't understand why more attention to PON would attract speculation. Could you elaborate on that ?
Also I think the POS/PON combination is something new and thus would get people to invest and have interest in NEM. I'm still for 60 % PON since I deem supporting the network by running a node is more valuable than merely having coins (regardless which amount).

Ok, let me change the subject once more please 



I have been thinking about the PON and although I think it's a wonderfull way to show NEM's dedication to equality, it will not attract alot more people to invest in the currency. But don't get me wrong, I am not against PON, and it will certainly ensure a good network!

However, after some brain flexing I have the idea that price stability is the number one goal; the second goal should be to make NEM attractive for merchants. Any currency can only become commonly used once people can actually buy things with it.
And again, to attract merchants you need good stability.

On the other hand, opticalcarrier's ideas are a good encouragement to actively use the currency.
see here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4954508

And as utopianfuture has allready pointed out, due to the distribution of NEM there is little concern about POS unfairness like earlier pointed out for NXT.

So, if it were up to me I would rather go with 60% POS and 40% PON or something. This way one can still just set up a network and start forging but people would at least be encouraged not to speculate too much.

So please let's share some thoughts about this 

also thought such scales and tried to add "M" (Movement) to its shape ...
Hadn't had time to sketch it 

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4975162

Please read my view above, especially the bold part. The NEM front page is the social contract I wrote when I decided to raise money for this project and asked for developers/ helpers and I am going to honor that social contract as long as this project stays viable.  

I doubt we have 3000 newbies. And you just need to skim through the emails anyway, the purpose is to make it so that it takes 10mins to write the email but just 5 secs to skim through it. The guy creating 150 accounts would need to write 150 emails and send from 150 different addresses... impractical. We might still get the odd guy that uses his work email and his wife's email, but we are making it more difficult and at least we block the whales.

Maybe that's a good idea.

Even the possibility of one person holds 100 NEM stakes is a serious buiness. Such deed should not be encouraged. NEM's future shouldn't be holded in the unhonest hands like that.

Do you wan't to read those 3 thousand emails ?

We already have pre-defined rules. No new rule will be applied retroactively.

I think that the only way is to:

1) Form a committee paid by dev fund (3-5 ppl) that will go through all stakes and identify possible sock puppets.
2) Ban Newbie accounts created after NEM annoucement unless they send an email to somewhere explaining who they are, where they heard about NEM and a short bio
3) Announce the end of the fundraising period soon