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Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 441. (Read 661525 times)

newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?

Hello.

Have you already tried TimeKoin?
Are you using it?


Moving conversation to PM.
hero member
Activity: 1116
Merit: 535

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?

Hello.

Have you already tried TimeKoin?
Are you using it?
hero member
Activity: 1116
Merit: 535

The NXT code base makes some of the things that we want to do hard. I haven't looked at the 0.6.0 sources yet. If possible, we will reuse parts of it. If not, we have the resources to rewrite NEM from the ground up.

Last "stable" version is 0.6.1
The last version is 0.7.0e (experimantal)
They found few fatal flaws today therefore they made 2 or 3 upgrades.


sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
PON = Proof Of Network. As I understand it it's basically you provide infrastructure for the network i.e. running a node and get something in return. The more you support the network the greater the likelyhood of you getting some coins.

Since I can't find any other ressource I'm gessing jaguar came up with it himself ?

Yes. I came up with it Smiley.

Let's assume 100% PON. So anyone can just install a client, setup a node and start forging even without initial stake/investment.
Why would you hold on to your stake if there is no difference in the gain.
It's not about forger's profit. It's about secure system. In Nxt u need coins to generate block, more coins = more chances. It makes front-attack expensive: attacker'll need biggest part of coins to write buggy chain that still'd be most diff. one (all honest chains'll be forks in this case).

If u replace PoS with PoN in start, low amount of nodes'll make network extremly vulnerable. I'm not sure even with later replacement, cos node-based attack always'll be cheaper than $/bruteforce-based attack (buy coins to generate buggy chain or crack Curve to do the same or to kill project). Should we sacriface attack cost gap for "fairness" (equal node-based forging)? I'm almost sure, that correct answer is "NO".

Even with PON, a small stake will be required for forging, so that should mitigate some concern.
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
Look at TimeKoin.org http://timekoin.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56
They have a very interesting system.
They've been around for years. I hear about them just few days ago.

If you intend to invest anything in it, I would be VERY, VERY cautious, search forum for creator's nick...

Thank you very much for the heads up! I wasn't planning on investing anyway, my main focus now is NEM and I follow what is happening with NXT.
Just that I saw some PoS and PoN postings here and I thought of TimeKoin. They have very eco frendly system without fees.  Maybe some of those ideas could be used for NEM?
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
NXT 0.6.0 was released.
AFAIK this version is the one they were holding back a little due to major refactoring they were trying to keep away from clones as long as possible.

Is this verison going to be the base for NEM ?

I am a bit concerned about this.  I heard fork thrown about, now I hear about a rewrite from scratch.  I'd prefer a fork with adjustments or find real value to add if from scratch.

The NXT code base makes some of the things that we want to do hard. I haven't looked at the 0.6.0 sources yet. If possible, we will reuse parts of it. If not, we have the resources to rewrite NEM from the ground up.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
you guys are killing me.  where can I go to read more on this PoN?  Cause google aint doin it for me
It's unimplemented idea for now. As some other PoX are.

To sign a block u'll need to setup a node and chance to generate a block will be 1/(visible) nodes, and as always longest chain win - basic scheme. I don't see much benefits at all versus HUGE risks.
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 250
Is NEM completely in the idea/marketing phase?

Any progress on modifying, writing, or testing code?

Yes. We are currently working on a development plan. The ETA on that is sometime this weekend. Then we will open it up for comments from the community for a few days before more or less locking it and ramping up the development.
sr. member
Activity: 602
Merit: 268
Internet of Value
Update: list is updated to the end of page 50. We are at 2380 accounts (including everything so the final total would drop a bit).

Two hash thefts are found in the last 10 pages. They are not going to give up so it is a constant fight until the fundraising is over. So if you have times, keep an eyes on new hashes or transaction ID in the registration thread. Make a quote when you see anything suspicious and I would check it when I look at the thread.

My goal is to have around 3000 stakeholders and about 50BTC+400K NXT (roughly 60-70K$). Theoretically we could run this until we close to launching the blockchain but I expect we could wrap it up within this month and be over with the distribution discussion.
hero member
Activity: 1116
Merit: 535
Look at TimeKoin.org http://timekoin.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56
They have a very interesting system.
They've been around for years. I hear about them just few days ago.

If you intend to invest anything in it, I would be VERY, VERY cautious, search forum for creator's nick...

From what I have understood there is no requirement to invest anything to start using timekoin.
You need just to run the client.
newbie
Activity: 126
Merit: 0
I doubt we have 3000 newbies. And you just need to skim through the emails anyway, the purpose is to make it so that it takes 10mins to write the email but just 5 secs to skim through it. The guy creating 150 accounts would need to write 150 emails and send from 150 different addresses... impractical. We might still get the odd guy that uses his work email and his wife's email, but we are making it more difficult and at least we block the whales.

If we are going to start doing this, do we have an option for a refund?   This is a complete absurdity from the simple fact that the sock puppets can and will send you emails with some dopey story.  This is a time sink and detracts from getting a working coin out the door. My recollection is the social contract says funding accounts will be refunded so it isn't like NEM gains by keeping their money.  And if NEM did keep their money, it'd be a black eye on NEM as a whole.

Closing registration?  Now NEM is starting to really gain funds.  If the devs are going to write a lot of code then they need the money, even if it does increase the chances someone walks off with the loot.

Last I knew you have to sit on this site and lurk for some time before you can even post.  

In the end all you'll do is weed out the lesser intelligent "whales" or "scammers" or what have you.  Also, you might want to consider that the people who go through the trouble to get a few shares might give more because of their increased stake.  Having multi-accouters doesn't necessarily hurt the coin, it could in fact help.

I think we really need to implement a DNA/fingerprint rule.  1 stake per DNA/fingerprint sample.


Only problem with this is the "scammers" will start hiring sock puppet homeless people to provide DNA/fingerprint samples for them.

In order to combat the sock puppet homeless people problem we need to implant a bluetooth chip into each stakeholder that corresponds to their 1 wallet.  The NEM in the wallet will only be accessible if the bluetooth chip is within 5 feet of the computer that is running the corresponding NEM wallet.
legendary
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
Look at TimeKoin.org http://timekoin.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56
They have a very interesting system.
They've been around for years. I hear about them just few days ago.

If you intend to invest anything in it, I would be VERY, VERY cautious, search forum for creator's nick...
legendary
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
Hi community!!!!

My English is pathetic, i need google translator to write. Cheesy

If you have much free time, you can make very good videos with MAGIX Video deluxe 2014:


random executables, random dlls, on teh internetz.... yeah, great way to gain some new malware samples...
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Kamehameha!!!
I still find it ironic that a coin that is trying to not be about Envy has the most envy evident in this forum before it even launches...
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
you guys are killing me.  where can I go to read more on this PoN?  Cause google aint doin it for me
sr. member
Activity: 405
Merit: 250
It's not about forger's profit. It's about secure system. In Nxt u need coins to generate block, more coins = more chances. It makes front-attack expensive: attacker'll need biggest part of coins to write buggy chain that still'd be most diff. one (all honest chains'll be forks in this case).

If u replace PoS with PoN in start, low amount of nodes'll make network extremly vulnerable. I'm not sure even with later replacement, cos node-based attack always'll be cheaper than $/bruteforce-based attack (buy coins to generate buggy chain or crack Curve to do the same or to kill project). Should we sacriface attack cost gap for "fairness" (equal node-based forging)? I'm almost sure, that correct answer is "NO".

Well said. 

Too many people throwing out random ideas to keep it "fair" but don't readily understand how things are exploited.  If you want the coin to be viable, the ***#1**** goal is security.  You start putting in PON and good luck with maintaining security.  I myself need to read more about NXTs, but at least it doesn't jump out at me as a 'bad idea' like PON does.

sr. member
Activity: 405
Merit: 250
I doubt we have 3000 newbies. And you just need to skim through the emails anyway, the purpose is to make it so that it takes 10mins to write the email but just 5 secs to skim through it. The guy creating 150 accounts would need to write 150 emails and send from 150 different addresses... impractical. We might still get the odd guy that uses his work email and his wife's email, but we are making it more difficult and at least we block the whales.

If we are going to start doing this, do we have an option for a refund?   This is a complete absurdity from the simple fact that the sock puppets can and will send you emails with some dopey story.  This is a time sink and detracts from getting a working coin out the door. My recollection is the social contract says funding accounts will be refunded so it isn't like NEM gains by keeping their money.  And if NEM did keep their money, it'd be a black eye on NEM as a whole.

Closing registration?  Now NEM is starting to really gain funds.  If the devs are going to write a lot of code then they need the money, even if it does increase the chances someone walks off with the loot.

Last I knew you have to sit on this site and lurk for some time before you can even post.  

In the end all you'll do is weed out the lesser intelligent "whales" or "scammers" or what have you.  Also, you might want to consider that the people who go through the trouble to get a few shares might give more because of their increased stake.  Having multi-accouters doesn't necessarily hurt the coin, it could in fact help.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Everyone gets a 'Piece' =)



Hope you like it.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Let's assume 100% PON. So anyone can just install a client, setup a node and start forging even without initial stake/investment.
Why would you hold on to your stake if there is no difference in the gain.
It's not about forger's profit. It's about secure system. In Nxt u need coins to generate block, more coins = more chances. It makes front-attack expensive: attacker'll need biggest part of coins to write buggy chain that still'd be most diff. one (all honest chains'll be forks in this case).

If u replace PoS with PoN in start, low amount of nodes'll make network extremly vulnerable. I'm not sure even with later replacement, cos node-based attack always'll be cheaper than $/bruteforce-based attack (buy coins to generate buggy chain or crack Curve to do the same or to kill project). Should we sacriface attack cost gap for "fairness" (equal node-based forging)? I'm almost sure, that correct answer is "NO".
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
PON = Proof Of Network. As I understand it it's basically you provide infrastructure for the network i.e. running a node and get something in return. The more you support the network the greater the likelyhood of you getting some coins.

Since I can't find any other ressource I'm gessing jaguar came up with it himself ?

thanks, so basically like peercoin with some initial distribution among stake holders.

Look at TimeKoin.org http://timekoin.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=56
They have a very interesting system.
They've been around for years. I hear about them just few days ago.
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