NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1983.

patmast3r

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Quote from: Totem22 on June 18, 2014, 08:06:04 AM

There are three choices for "unclaimed coins ":

1. Distribute proportionally to all current stakeholders.

2. Destroy all the coin.

3. Form a community committee to manage the coins aka Nxt's committee style.

I am for 3. Nxt's committee has been very effective. Choice 3 gives an incentive for NEMsters to do good things for NEM. Grin

I think we should have such a committee not only for the unclaimed stakes but in general. The community is supposed to have more power over what happens after V1.

Totem22

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There are three choices for "unclaimed coins ":

1. Distribute proportionally to all current stakeholders.

2. Destroy all the coin.

3. Form a community committee to manage the coins aka Nxt's committee style.

I am for 3. Nxt's committee has been very effective. Choice 3 gives an incentive for NEMsters to do good things for NEM. Grin

dadingsda

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Destroy the "leftover" coins

patmast3r

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Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:51:22 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:43:13 AM

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.

There's no problem about the auction of the 150 stakes for BTC. It was properly announced before the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

The thing is that as NEM has already practically launched on NXT AE, you can't anymore do whatever you like. I can only see two fair (or three) schemes regarding the unclaimed stakes:

- Destroy the unclaimed coins
- Distribute the unclaimed coins equally between stakeholders
- (Distribute the unclaimed coins equally in portions between stakeholders, developers and developing funds)

Just to make sure we are talking about the same subject, I am talking about the stakes that will be left unclaimed after you have finished distributing NEM. I am OK with the auction of the around 150 stakes for BTC.

Well then we were talking about 2 different things.
What we'll do with the "leftovers" is yet undecided but there is a heavy discussion going on as we see that it's important to the community to have a decision here.

kattokassinen

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Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:43:13 AM

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.

There's no problem about the auction of the 150 stakes for BTC. It was properly announced before the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

The thing is that as NEM has already practically launched on NXT AE, you can't anymore do whatever you like. I can only see two fair (or three) schemes regarding the unclaimed stakes:

- Destroy the unclaimed coins
- Distribute the unclaimed coins equally between stakeholders
- (Distribute the unclaimed coins equally in portions between stakeholders, developers and developing funds)

Just to make sure we are talking about the same subject, I am talking about the stakes that will be left unclaimed after you have finished distributing NEM. I am OK with the auction of the around 150 stakes for BTC.

NEM minnow

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Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 06:47:09 AM

Quote from: Seedeer on June 18, 2014, 06:43:30 AM

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 01:55:53 AM

My points are pretty clear,. (...) Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 02:42:07 AM

Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) .

What's wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. Out of 100, 73 came back to claim their stake, so 25%+ never showed up. The second statement is correct too as those 25% had contributed BTC that were worth 1% of Nxt which was about 10 million Nxt. That doesn't change the fact that 25% of people never showed up to claim the coins. Since in Nem every stake is equal, if 25% don't show up that would be 750 million nem

We have to take that 25% number with a bit of skepticism. There was no audit, and it is suspiciously high. This points to sock puppets of BCnext, knowing that the money would revert back to "development".

Also, some did come back, I think it was TaiZen who invested and then lost his password (Its hard to remember for sure). I am sure he tried like crazy to get back in, but with those pass phrases, it was very tricky and a new type of login.

I know every investment I make gets marked and I check on it regularly. I am sure not all people are as strict as me, but some have to be even more stricter. It seems pretty strange and sketchy that 25% didn't come back.

--------------

That said, I am all for just burning the unclaimed stakes. I mean really, they don't belong to the devs, and they don't belong to the NEMsters, they belong to the people that paid for them. To me, the fair thing to do is promise to give the NEMsters their 1 mill, and give the DEVs their stated share and anybody that doesn't claim has their NEM destroyed.

patmast3r

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Quote from: Momimaus on June 18, 2014, 07:40:14 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:34:53 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 18, 2014, 07:26:48 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:24:26 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:01:30 AM

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...

What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.

That´s the point.

If you sell them, you just take money from the ones who decided to not sell their stake or even buy more, and put in developers pocket or in a developer fund. And there is already a developer fund.

Please state a decision as soon as possible.

The auction was announced before the Assets on the NXT AE. Therefore everyone knew that some more stakes will be distributed.
Ans stop saying everything goes into devs pocket.

Momimaus

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Never back down !!!

Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:37:35 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:34:53 AM

... The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

Well afaik the auction is the only way we were planing to spread it further. So there really shouldn't be a problem right ?

The auction stakes are not the point.
But even with them it would have been smarter if the auction would have been finished before the token were issued on NXT ae.
Lack of a longterm plan, sorry nothing else.

Momimaus

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Never back down !!!

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:34:53 AM

Quote from: gimre on June 18, 2014, 07:26:48 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:24:26 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:01:30 AM

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...

What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.

That´s the point.

If you sell them, you just take money from the ones who decided to not sell their stake or even buy more, and put in developers pocket or in a developer fund. And there is already a developer fund.

Please state a decision as soon as possible.

patmast3r

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Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:34:53 AM

... The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

Well afaik the auction is the only way we were planing to spread it further. So there really shouldn't be a problem right ?

kattokassinen

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Merit: 100

Quote from: gimre on June 18, 2014, 07:26:48 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:24:26 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:01:30 AM

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...

What I meant was that the value of the stake would naturally decrease if the unclaimed ones would be re-distributed. In my opinion that would be unfair for the ones who have bought their stakes from NXT AE as this would be unanticipated move. The auction of the 150 stakes for btc is fair as it was expected and announced _before_ the launch of NEM in NXT AE.

And gimre please don't make such accusations even though I don't have many posts. Writing in a foreign language takes great energy from me, and have chosen to stay as "a reader" on these forums. Also, you can check that I haven't claimed my stake as nxt asset nor have I any plans to do so.

Totem22

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Quote from: mjrmac on June 18, 2014, 06:00:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

"NEM has not even launched" is a false claim.

Total FUD.
U write like NEM is already launched. It is NOT.

Correct. NEM will be launched at the genesis block. Before that stakeholders buy/sell their stake at their own discretion.

gimre

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Quote from: patmast3r on June 18, 2014, 07:24:26 AM

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:01:30 AM

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

{troll mode on} I guess he has sock puppet accounts an he want to get as much of AE as poosible...

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: kattokassinen on June 18, 2014, 07:01:30 AM

stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE.

Can you elaborate on how that would be unfair ?
Their shares won't get smaller by more people getting in. We're merely trying to get to those 3k stakeholders.

kattokassinen

full member

Activity: 169

Merit: 100

My thoughts about the unclaimed stakes:

As NEM has already launched in practice via NXT AE, stakes shouldn't be distributed to even wider audience, as this would be very unfair towards people who have bought their stake from NXT AE. The auction of around 150 stakes for BTC can be proceeded with, as this was known or should have been known by the buyers of NEM stake in NXT AE.

As such, I am suggesting that the unclaimed stakes would be distributed between all stakeholders who claim their stake prior the deadline. I remember that it was highlighted that 1 million NEM would be the minimum, therefore there is no barrier to issue more than 1 million NEM per stake. This would also be fair to the stakeholders, and better for the community. I think it's in NEM's best interest to have a strong community. However, I also understand that some of the promotion, developing etc. must be centrally controlled in the beginning, but shouldn't 15% of NEM (+BTC and NXT collected from the auction and registration) be enough for this purpose already?

For the above reasons I would like the developers of NEM to make a decision to distribute the unclaimed stakes between stakeholders. The sooner you decide, the better for NEM, as you would eliminate some of the uncertainty surrounding NEM.

Totem22

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Quote from: Momimaus on June 18, 2014, 06:54:20 AM

Quote from: fragout on June 18, 2014, 06:10:04 AM

Distribute the unclaimed stakes among all stakeholders imo.
This will increase the value of every stake including the devs. Its the only fair way to do it and will (should) make everyone happy.

obvious and easy solution fits everybody

Community Committee for development please Grin

Everyone should discuss the possible candidates after the open Alpha Grin

Core team will hold the unclaimed fund in trust for claim until V1 blockchain.

patmast3r

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Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 06:47:09 AM

Quote from: Seedeer on June 18, 2014, 06:43:30 AM

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 01:55:53 AM

My points are pretty clear,. (...) Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 02:42:07 AM

Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) .

What's wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. Out of 100, 73 came back to claim their stake, so 25%+ never showed up. The second statement is correct too as those 25% had contributed BTC that were worth 1% of Nxt which was about 10 million Nxt. That doesn't change the fact that 25% of people never showed up to claim the coins. Since in Nem every stake is equal, if 25% don't show up that would be 750 million nem

Yes that's what it WOULD be....emphasis on WOULD. We're not there yet. We've heard you and will address this.
Any more reason to put newcomers of with FUD ?

Momimaus

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Never back down !!!

Quote from: fragout on June 18, 2014, 06:10:04 AM

Distribute the unclaimed stakes among all stakeholders imo.
This will increase the value of every stake including the devs. Its the only fair way to do it and will (should) make everyone happy.

obvious and easy solution fits everybody

Eadeqa

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Quote from: Seedeer on June 18, 2014, 06:43:30 AM

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 01:55:53 AM

My points are pretty clear,. (...) Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 02:42:07 AM

Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) .

What's wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. Out of 100, 73 came back to claim their stake, so 25%+ never showed up. The second statement is correct too as those 25% had contributed BTC that were worth 1% of Nxt which was about 10 million Nxt. That doesn't change the fact that 25% of people never showed up to claim the coins. Since in Nem every stake is equal, if 25% don't show up that would be 750 million nem

Seedeer

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Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 01:55:53 AM

My points are pretty clear,. (...) Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

Quote from: Eadeqa on June 18, 2014, 02:42:07 AM

Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) .

What's wrong with you?

Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1983. (Read 2985503 times)