Topic: New Official AMT Thread - page 114. (Read 149454 times)

The address actually would be near the assembly plant if I had to guess as that is where it left from. Least its my guess.

Hence my last post, getting two Antminer S2's at 2599 each would be 2Ths for us. And they pocket 500 bucks actually (I am correcting myself as its 5599). we paid alot of money for this hardware. They still have to deal with the logistics of getting the money back from the SMD house who fucked up their production. But that's not to put it coldly our problem. Ours is to get what we paid for. BUT if AMT wants to make this right with a minimal loss, going the S2 route for us would be the best. And I imagine buynig them in bulk results in some kind of discounts which mean they can pocket that discounted amount while still giving us the THs we paid for adn then some. We all win under this scenario. I presume 2199 based on the 4 dollar discounts they give for existing customers. Buying in bulk likely they would provide some discount there.

@AMT Hitting up bitmaintech for info might not be a bad idea to get this done. We all win here and you start to win credibility with delivery. You maintain yourself as a reseller. The rebuild of hardware might be more costly presuming not to mention time consuming. This would at least act as a stopgap until you can restructure or redevelop the hardware and come back stronger later on. But for now this might at least legally satisfy everyone here.

Man,  how are you comparing a company that has shipped 5,000 units to customers to a company that has shipped zero? 

Well you are correct in that it will be quite difficult to be able to be compensated by AMT.  That is why I am not about to ship them back equipment with the promise of a replacement.  So far the evidence shows that you can't return your equipment.  

I however would not mind being compensated less than the $6,000 that I did pay.   However, even in that scenario (i.e. shipping just 50 chips),  AMT still hesitates.     What does that tell you?  

You are a glutton for punishment man. cointerra is also having shipping problems and alot of the same as AMT. Maybe not as bad but also not reliable if you read the reviews of the hardware. Why would you want to deal with more of the same crap knowing what you know now?

The bitmain option would be better overall as its much cheaper and would net us the min required. Hell 2x S2s 2599x2=5198 We get 2 THs AMT pockets 1k per miner and we get more hashing power out of the deal. We get a complete hardware package out of it. IF they were going that route. But I doubt it. I think we just send back the boards they get torn apart and the chips get tested/reused on rebuilt hardware, tested and sent back out to us.

FYI I ordered an S2 batch 4 so I will post up my experiences with it. Based on what other people have been saying besides the initial shipping issues it works as advertised. And the documentation is decent if poorly written.

No matter how its sliced the legal route isn't working anyway right now. Note the class action....where is that going? Its taking long just to make it into class status. There might be more going on behind the scenes now that we don't know about, but as it stands we simply don't know. For the moment all we want are assurances and some kind of written guarantee that we are getting something on a committed date.

For those with a hard on for seeing them in jail, you are kidding yourselves. You MIGHT recover very little if anything at all. Our legal system does not quite work like it does on TV. Sure some restitution will be made but it wont be quick it will take years. Even with Bernie Madoffs scheme that's still being resolved and alot of people haven't seen or likely never will see their money again (just ask actor Kevin Bacon one of his victims). Our best bet honestly is to get the hardware mining and keep the heat on for getting the working hashes/hardware we paid for and moving on. Simplest results lie there. AMT might be able to turn it around to make a profit later on, but until they reestablish credibility with solid communications practices and making good on their commitments (by doing what they say they will do consistently) it will be a tough road  ahead for them and us.

I would be happy if AMT buys a 1.6 TH/s cointerra and ships it to us.

Right now a TerraMiner IV 1.6 TH/s Bitcoin Miner cost $3,499 and is IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE.

Yeah, it is like a $2,500 loss but its better than nothing!

Man,  even those KNC folks are screwed.  They paid $12,000 for a 3TH/s system.   Two Cointerra systems would cost only $7,000 and you'll have 3.2 TH/s of hashing!

I'd like option 1, with power supplies. Please confirm.

It is pretty clear that none of the 5 payback options compensates for the $6,000 was spent per miner.

I really am not sure how AMT can purchase a 1 THs miner for $3,000 and give it to a customer and say that the customer is made whole.

I really don't know what AMT (Josh) is even thinking here.

AMT has barely any resources to process technical questions or even returns,  how are they supposed to provide maintenance support for miners that they shipped?

Even looking forward in the future,  building mining equipment is a losing proposition unless you are the chip manufacturer.   Coincraft A1 chips started at around $90 per chip,   but now it is obvious that the price is now down to $40 per chip.  (Note: Bitmine and AMT have not changed their prices).    

While a refund would be nice they obviously are not making it happen now. There are alot of issues with that by itself I'm not going into. You are right tho to date no one has a fully working miner that we know of. On top of this we also have to wait now for replacements and the biggest concern is returns. Considering how things are happening with returned hardware this is a situation we want some clarification on.

Well, that would be a very bad situation if they did not register an LLC.    

Agreed, again sirminesalot strike out again. He is on here spouting more useless nonsense without even thinking about it. he is not here to help you he is here to see us all burn. If his comments were meant to help then they would be more productive. I ignored him but I see his comments through the quotes.

You nailed it on the head rik. The legal route will get us limited results. Right now our best bet IMO (which could be wrong if I am presented with better information) but the 2nd option of them sourcing the work to the "interested" 3rd party (technobit?) would be our best bet. They get business and we get working miners. I would be ok with that so long as its not a months long wait again. I get lead times, but lead times should be a couple of weeks to a month max. If they are really doing this then we want to have some clear information on it so we know what we are getting into. This situation is more convoluted than it needs to be for us. This should be a money and product not money and haggle over what we get. As it is we have had to make alot of compromises on what we got as it is which is certainly not fair to us as we paid to get something and got alot less than that. Everyone here lost money and is still losing money to this.

I would like to see AMT succeed and come out of this. But they need to up their game and that requires fulfilling the orders and getting everyone here replacement hardware who has broken hardware as well as getting the movement on fulfilling outstanding orders. It would be nice to see the new hardware working to spec.  

Remember the backlog of research from users here, about AMT's business registration?

THEY ARENT EVEN REGISTERED AS A U.S BUSINESS! They've been using Advanced Mining Technology's name, which is an actual mining company (other business) founded in the 80's.

An LLC might of covered their ass, but there is no indication of AMT LLC. or anything to that nature. Hell, maybe someone can point me to a webpage that shows their actual registered company?

I think Joshua left himself wide open to legal repercussions.

Well, that is the key indeed.  If nobody has received a working 1.2TH/s miner.... then what shall we call that? 

Is there one shred of evidence of a working 1.2TH/s miner?   Can someone chime in to declare that one has been actually delivered? 

The best option for AMT is to refund all 1.2TH/s miner customers.   

Yes a judge can garnish wages: in pa it's 10% per creditor not to excede 25% max to comply with federal law. And that is only if what you are making doesn't put you below the poverty threshold.

Lets say Jim and Josh net 50,000 each so 100,000 x .25 is 25,000 per year / over a minimum of 1500 orders I hope everyone enjoys their $16.67 a year. So I'll be paid back for my miner in 345 years if josh, jim, and I were all so lucky to live that long. So while it's not literally dimes it's no amount of money worth having wages garnished over.  if I'm lucky and live 50 years after a judge lets wage garnishment happen I'll have recouped 833 dollars in those 50 years.

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

If they have their company set up a certain way then their assets will be shielded, if they were smart enough to go that route.

I'd have my assets in a trust that named my children as beneficiaries some long time off into the future.

A legal solution has a lot of uncertainty to us, so IF AMT is finally realizing that they need to treat as us partners and customers rather than fools (admittedly a big question mark on that), then working something out with AMT is better IMHO.

For those of you who are in the lawsuit, or thinking about it, consider and ask your lawyer about each of the following:

(1) It will take at least a year to get a judgment that can be enforced.  By then, how much will the inventory that AMT has be worth? Probably not much.

(2) Yes, you can garnish wages and such in order to collect from the individuals, but ONLY if you can prove fraud or "pierce the corporate veil" which protects individuals from liability.  This is very hard to do, though not impossible.  And you are assuming that the individuals involved will have sufficient assets.  Overpromising and making mistakes does not equate to fraud.  You would need to show that the individuals involved knew they could not deliver and lied to cover it up.  Possible, but hard to prove.

(3) The legal fees involved in getting to a judgment and then collecting that (especially if you have to pursue the individuals through a fraud or piercing the corporate veil claim) will be very high.  Ask your lawyer for an estimate, but I would guess nothing less than $500,000 if you include collection expenses, or maybe 50% if they take it on contingency.  This will decrease substantially what you can get and will require the lawsuit folks to foot a big bill.  Even on contingency, you may still have to pay expenses which can be many times what a 1.2 Th/s miner would cost.  

(4) If AMT files for bankruptcy, you have a big legal mess (read: expensive and unlikely to collect).  The lawsuit will go away, and instead you will have an unsecured claim, and the court will liquidate the assets usually in fire sale fashion for next to nothing.  Legal costs will likely eat up any assets.  On the plus side, in a bankruptcy the trustee will pursue claims for fraudulent conveyance and preference to the extent that assets were transferred out of AMT, but the issue of getting recovery and the costs and time of getting recovery still remains substantial.

I think that if AMT is really a big scam (as opposed to being honest but less than competent), our best bet is to pursue criminal remedies and write off the miners as a loss.  Some have already moved in that direction I know.  For myself, I am waiting to see what AMT does now that they are at least appearing to recognize what they need to do.  

Having said all that, another period of silence, another set of false promises, or any more obfuscation and I think we have no other choice.  But my advice to all is to give AMT this last chance.  We have nothing to lose, as it is lost already if there has been fraud.

I've got this 58 lb brick of government cheese in a box coming back to me from AMT. (actually at least you can eat Govt. cheese).  Please advise.

With the whole hashfast, BFL and cointerra situations and pretty much every american manufacturer dealing with various delays and shady activity, any honest and transparent action is what will set them apart. IF and this is a big IF, AMT can actually deliver on any promises they make this time, within a reasonable time-frame, that might be the one thing that sets them apart. This is not the buyers fault. We all bought into something that has not happened. We paid money for hardware that failed consistently. If we get the existing hardware we have exchanged and replaced with the allegedly better designs, is there some kind of written warranty or guarantee we can hold AMT accountable to? At this point its a safe bet that we need anything said in writing and official for us to be able to feel like this is going to work. But at the very least getting us hardware that works consistently and is tested before leaving the assembly plant.

For all these other companies the writing is on the wall. Hashfast is headed towards insolvency, cointerra might be as well. BFL is an unknown. If AMT is looking to stay in business then regain the credibility by delivering this time around with more transparency and committing and keeping to a timeline and delivering well tested hardware that hashes exactly as advertised. Yes the occasional bad board is to be expected but the quality control should be there to catch 95 percent of the bad stuff.

If AMT wants to really do right by us then the best thing is to start showing off the new board working (videos, photos) and a committed timeline. If the vendor is reliable and has a reputation of reliability that makes it even better for us as well. Since you obviously are going through them to assemble this. Hopefully this is a vendor the community is familiar with and we can start hoping for better hardware to replace the bad stuff.

The upshot is then you become the sole mining hardware company that has delivered working hardware that works as advertised (discounting the previous fiasco). There are those who dont care and woudl see you fail and consistently post as they have no vested interest. They don't care that we put money into this. Others who have another angle like a lawsuit, also stand to lose even tho they lose anyway if it goes through. In fact we all lose. But if you can get us more info and commitments you will keep this time and maybe even we hear it from the vendor you sourced to who is doing the work it might be a better assurance for us to feel we are going to get results.