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Topic: Obama or Romney ? - page 7. (Read 21126 times)

legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
October 18, 2012, 04:18:22 PM
...gays and women?

It is amazing to me that the country can be $16,000,000,000,000 in debt, and the big stories of the year are Chick-fil-a and Planned Parenthood.

"Pay no attention to the impending doom, watch these dancing monkeys!"

It becomes much more personal (and important) when you're one of the monkeys.  I can understand throwing the gays under the bus from a percentage of population standpoint, but women? The neocons have lost their mind. 
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
October 18, 2012, 04:11:56 PM
...gays and women?

It is amazing to me that the country can be $16,000,000,000,000 in debt, and the big stories of the year are Chick-fil-a and Planned Parenthood.

"Pay no attention to the impending doom, watch these dancing monkeys!"
It's very intentional and people buy into it. Divide and conquer.
hero member
Activity: 778
Merit: 1002
October 18, 2012, 04:11:07 PM
...gays and women?

It is amazing to me that the country can be $16,000,000,000,000 in debt, and the big stories of the year are Chick-fil-a and Planned Parenthood.

"Pay no attention to the impending doom, watch these dancing monkeys!"
legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
October 18, 2012, 04:09:26 PM
Continue to refuse to enforce and work for the elimination of DOMA.  Most importantly, chose the next two or three supreme court justices.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
October 18, 2012, 04:05:01 PM
I'm hedged financially. An economic screwing of the middle class is going to happen no matter who is elected. I'm going for Obama since I refuse to go back to the 1950s on human/gay/women's rights.


What restrictions will Obama reduce for gays and women?
hero member
Activity: 778
Merit: 1002
October 18, 2012, 04:04:48 PM
I'm going for Obama since I refuse to go back to the 1950s on human/gay/women's rights.

Yeah, better to kill Americans with drones without trial.
sr. member
Activity: 290
Merit: 250
October 18, 2012, 04:04:23 PM

Today's elections are rigged.  At the national level (US) you're told you have two choices, one clown, or another, both from competing circuses run by the same corporation.  The joke's on anyone who participates!

It's all money and power related of course.

M

QFT
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
October 18, 2012, 04:03:22 PM
I'm hedged financially. An economic screwing of the middle class is going to happen no matter who is elected. I'm going for Obama since I refuse to go back to the 1950s on human/gay/women's rights.


That's his strongest point for me as well.  Romney can school him in domestic economics, but his economic approach to esp. China would be a disaster.

Romney: Hey China, quit printing currency... it's not fair.
China: You first asshole.
legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
October 18, 2012, 04:00:25 PM
I'm hedged financially. An economic screwing of the middle class is going to happen no matter who is elected. I'm going for Obama since I refuse to go back to the 1950s on human/gay/women's rights.
hero member
Activity: 778
Merit: 1002
October 18, 2012, 03:44:15 PM
I may very well end up voting for Romney. As a hardcore anarcho-capitalist, that's hard to admit. Mainly, I see opportunity to make money off the public perception of the economy in a Romney term. Secondly, I like some of Romney's rhetoric. He is at least talking about some capitalist ideals, and decentralization of government.

That being said, they're both puppets. It's far too late to recover. Hyperinflation is the only way out.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 100
October 18, 2012, 03:33:52 PM
Im an aussie so I just watch the show from the outside, but Id say Obama could say nothing for the next ~2+ months and still win - Romney is just so... ugh.
Are this free elections you talking about, what is the chance of a 50/50 votes like we had it with Bush first election?
If we talk statistics the chance are this elections were 95% rigged.

 
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
October 18, 2012, 02:49:14 PM
I'm not the one claiming this would "change the face of government". If you think it won't make any difference, then you agree with my criticism.

Not really.  My way would decrease the likelihood of career politicians getting in. 

Quote
Quote
Those that are wealthy are probably the brightest and most capable of running for public office.  They wouldn't be there to increase their wallet size, which should weed out a lot of the miscreants we have today.
Why wouldn't they be there to increase their wallet size? I think a lot of wealthy people join government for just that reason, expecting that they'll have much more lucrative careers when they leave government. (That doesn't always make them bad people or bad politicians, of course.)

All reducing politician's salaries will do is make it harder for people who have more financial obligations and less personal wealth to enter politics. If you think that's a good thing, then you're welcome to advocate for lower salaries for politicians. But it won't make politicians more honest and could do the reverse.

As stated in my other post, the problem is the mentality of the individuals.  Politics is the problem.  If you had selfless individuals, they'd be statesmen.  Politicians = money and lies.  Statesmen = serving the country.

M

If career politicians are an issue, why not just add term limits?  Limiting our representatives to those with independent (or family) wealth is not a good plan IMO.

Speaking of representation, did you know the house of representatives used to grow with the population?  There used to be an upper limit of 60k people per representative.  In order to be that close to direct representation today would require 30,000 representatives rather than the measly 435 we have today.  It seems to me that this is why only the powerful can influence politics... each representative has too much to handle to deal with the issues of the average constituent.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
October 18, 2012, 02:00:59 PM
As stated in my other post, the problem is the mentality of the individuals.  Politics is the problem.  If you had selfless individuals, they'd be statesmen.  Politicians = money and lies.  Statesmen = serving the country.

Find me an election process that selects for selfless individuals, rather than those best at lying through their teeth, and I will heartily support that governing system. Until then, I'll stick to market anarchy.

Today's elections are rigged.  At the national level (US) you're told you have two choices, one clown, or another, both from competing circuses run by the same corporation.  The joke's on anyone who participates!

It's all money and power related of course.

M
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
October 18, 2012, 01:23:13 PM
Find me an election process that selects for selfless individuals, rather than those best at lying through their teeth, and I will heartily support that governing system. Until then, I'll stick to market anarchy.

Term-limited random selection from qualified individuals.

Well, that's a step in the right direction, in that it fails to select for sociopathy, but unfortunately, it also fails to select for altruism.
sr. member
Activity: 283
Merit: 250
October 18, 2012, 01:10:32 PM
Find me an election process that selects for selfless individuals, rather than those best at lying through their teeth, and I will heartily support that governing system. Until then, I'll stick to market anarchy.

Term-limited random selection from qualified individuals.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
October 18, 2012, 01:03:55 PM
As stated in my other post, the problem is the mentality of the individuals.  Politics is the problem.  If you had selfless individuals, they'd be statesmen.  Politicians = money and lies.  Statesmen = serving the country.

Find me an election process that selects for selfless individuals, rather than those best at lying through their teeth, and I will heartily support that governing system. Until then, I'll stick to market anarchy.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
October 18, 2012, 12:31:10 PM
I'm not the one claiming this would "change the face of government". If you think it won't make any difference, then you agree with my criticism.

Not really.  My way would decrease the likelihood of career politicians getting in. 

Quote
Quote
Those that are wealthy are probably the brightest and most capable of running for public office.  They wouldn't be there to increase their wallet size, which should weed out a lot of the miscreants we have today.
Why wouldn't they be there to increase their wallet size? I think a lot of wealthy people join government for just that reason, expecting that they'll have much more lucrative careers when they leave government. (That doesn't always make them bad people or bad politicians, of course.)

All reducing politician's salaries will do is make it harder for people who have more financial obligations and less personal wealth to enter politics. If you think that's a good thing, then you're welcome to advocate for lower salaries for politicians. But it won't make politicians more honest and could do the reverse.

As stated in my other post, the problem is the mentality of the individuals.  Politics is the problem.  If you had selfless individuals, they'd be statesmen.  Politicians = money and lies.  Statesmen = serving the country.

M
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
October 18, 2012, 11:48:42 AM
95% percentage cuts across the board, 100% tax on politicians, that is, any money you "make" by being a politician goes into the coffers and is unreachable by you.

That would change the face of government.  Then the people there would be those who want to be there for the betterment of the nation, instead of the betterment of their wallet.
Umm, no. The only people who would be there would be wealthy people who can afford to work without pay, perhaps mixed with a few conniving people who expect to make a killing in the future by brokering their contacts and influence after they leave government. The only people would wouldn't be there are the smart, honest, normal family folks just trying to make the country a better place. They couldn't afford to be there.

And... that's different from what we have today how?
I'm not the one claiming this would "change the face of government". If you think it won't make any difference, then you agree with my criticism.

Quote
Since when do we have "smart, honest, normal family folks" there today?
I never said we did.

Quote
Those that are wealthy are probably the brightest and most capable of running for public office.  They wouldn't be there to increase their wallet size, which should weed out a lot of the miscreants we have today.
Why wouldn't they be there to increase their wallet size? I think a lot of wealthy people join government for just that reason, expecting that they'll have much more lucrative careers when they leave government. (That doesn't always make them bad people or bad politicians, of course.)

All reducing politician's salaries will do is make it harder for people who have more financial obligations and less personal wealth to enter politics. If you think that's a good thing, then you're welcome to advocate for lower salaries for politicians. But it won't make politicians more honest and could do the reverse.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1001
October 18, 2012, 11:36:33 AM
...The only people who would be there would be wealthy people who can afford to work without pay, perhaps mixed with a few conniving people who expect to make a killing in the future by brokering their contacts and influence after they leave government...

With few exceptions, that appears to be what we have right now.  Wink

As I've stated elsewhere here and in other threads...

Just about every government structure will work when run by selfless god fearing individuals.

And..

Those same government structures will fail when run by selfish greedy lying psychopaths.

My question to everyone who reads this is... Would YOU do different?  Do you have a price? 

M
legendary
Activity: 944
Merit: 1026
October 18, 2012, 11:15:09 AM
...The only people who would be there would be wealthy people who can afford to work without pay, perhaps mixed with a few conniving people who expect to make a killing in the future by brokering their contacts and influence after they leave government...

With few exceptions, that appears to be what we have right now.  Wink
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