ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 1120.

Haunebu

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 21, 2019, 05:18:21 AM

If we are considering last 2 decades then for me best captain is Ganguly. But If we are going way back to 60s and 80s then Mansoor Ali khan and Kapil dev are worthy candidates and important figures.

Ganguly is indeed one of the best captains in Indian history, but MSD did what mattered the most when compared to other captains(Winning multiple world titles, Establishing the future of Indian cricket(Kohli etc) etc).

His life story is always very inspirational and I am not a big fan of test Cricket to be honest since I watch T-20 and ODI matches more often which is why he is the best captain among all the Indian Cricket captains so far. Just my opinion!

mersal

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 21, 2019, 05:18:21 AM

If we are considering last 2 decades then for me best captain is Ganguly. But If we are going way back to 60s and 80s then Mansoor Ali khan and Kapil dev are worthy candidates and important figures.

Honestly,I love the aggression from Ganguly and I can forget the match where he took of his shirt and starts roaring.He is the one bring the team India to world class when AUS and RSA commanding the international cricket.But after the retirement of Ganguly, MSD appointed as captain like trial and error because Sachin himself admitted that he is not right to lead the team.

In the past two decades,every Indian captain bring the level of Indian cricket team to next level,hopefully it will be continued with the Kohli too.

Don't forget IPL is also the reason why we found too many hidden talents around India.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 21, 2019, 05:18:21 AM

If we are considering last 2 decades then for me best captain is Ganguly. But If we are going way back to 60s and 80s then Mansoor Ali khan and Kapil dev are worthy candidates and important figures.

Hands down Sourav Ganguly is the best captain India ever had when it comes to building a sub par team to world beaters and he showed the confidence on how to take on the opponents and beat them at their own game and the number of world class players he brought into the team is also a major part why India continue that tradition under MSD and now under Kohli.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 21, 2019, 05:18:21 AM

Quote from: Haunebu on December 21, 2019, 04:07:51 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 21, 2019, 12:24:35 AM

And at this point, we need to remember that the Indian team reached its peak success under the captaincy of Sourav Ganguly. The calm and cool attitude of Sachin/Azharuddin went well with the fans, but they never achieved the sort of success that was enjoyed under the leadership of Ganguly.

I disagree. India achieved peak success under MSD thanks to India winning multiple World Championships under him and his multitude of accomplishments while Ganguly is the next best captain since he helped India recover from a bad phase.

Short summary of top Indian Captains so far.

Pataudi : Youngest Indian Captain at the age of 21.

Kapil : Cricket spread like a virus in India when team won the World Cup under his captaincy. Cricket used to be game of Nawabs and Elites (Rich) before this.

Ganguly : Took captaincy when Team was in bad phase due to Match fixing scandal, built the team from scratch and taught how to fight back and win. still remember his stunt at the Lord's balcony in 2002.

Dhoni : He started in better condition and took India to new heights as far as limited overs are concern, bad captain in the Test format.

Kohli : Got good team. Under his captaincy, India doing mehhh... in limited overs but in Test format i am proud that he's leading the team ( despite his fuck-ups). basically He changed the mindset of Indian team in the Test.

If we are considering last 2 decades then for me best captain is Ganguly. But If we are going way back to 60s and 80s then Mansoor Ali khan and Kapil dev are worthy candidates and important figures.

I will go with Ganguly as he brings too much for them and he is real revolutioner for India like Allan Border for Australia these both bring highs of game in their respective countries.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Haunebu on December 21, 2019, 04:07:51 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 21, 2019, 12:24:35 AM

And at this point, we need to remember that the Indian team reached its peak success under the captaincy of Sourav Ganguly. The calm and cool attitude of Sachin/Azharuddin went well with the fans, but they never achieved the sort of success that was enjoyed under the leadership of Ganguly.

I disagree. India achieved peak success under MSD thanks to India winning multiple World Championships under him and his multitude of accomplishments while Ganguly is the next best captain since he helped India recover from a bad phase.

Short summary of top Indian Captains so far.

Pataudi : Youngest Indian Captain at the age of 21.
Kapil : Cricket spread like a virus in India when team won the World Cup under his captaincy. Cricket used to be game of Nawabs and Elites (Rich) before this.
Ganguly : Took captaincy when Team was in bad phase due to Match fixing scandal, built the team from scratch and taught how to fight back and win. still remember his stunt at the Lord's balcony in 2002.
Dhoni : He started in better condition and took India to new heights as far as limited overs are concern, bad captain in the Test format.
Kohli : Got good team. Under his captaincy, India doing mehhh... in limited overs but in Test format i am proud that he's leading the team ( despite his fuck-ups). basically He changed the mindset of Indian team in the Test.

If we are considering last 2 decades then for me best captain is Ganguly. But If we are going way back to 60s and 80s then Mansoor Ali khan and Kapil dev are worthy candidates and important figures.

Haunebu

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Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on December 20, 2019, 07:42:00 AM

I have no idea what you are trying to tell here, Rohit Sharma is a senior in the limited over format than Virat Kohli and he is the captain of Mumbai Indians and why is there an issue between the players and Rohit, they both have a level of respect and i do not see any different groups in the team and if that happens then India cannot perform well like this for a long time and during the absence of Kohli, Rohit is the captain and he does have a good record.

I get why you feel that Rohit should become the new captain, but I still support Kohli to remain as captain since India is in a great position currently(Even if they lost major tournaments) and they could record major tournament wins in the future if they continue improving at this rate.

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 21, 2019, 12:24:35 AM

And at this point, we need to remember that the Indian team reached its peak success under the captaincy of Sourav Ganguly. The calm and cool attitude of Sachin/Azharuddin went well with the fans, but they never achieved the sort of success that was enjoyed under the leadership of Ganguly.

I disagree. India achieved peak success under MSD thanks to India winning multiple World Championships under him and his multitude of accomplishments while Ganguly is the next best captain since he helped India recover from a bad phase.

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Quote from: suvo05 on December 20, 2019, 01:21:46 PM

With so much dissimilarity we could find a similarity between the two, they both lead from the front. Dhoni as captain used to set examples for the other player with his performance specially in run chase. Similarly Kohli use to do the same he leads the team from the front. When both are good with different kind of mentality then why the comparisons. I don't want to see clam cool Kohli, everyone loves his aggressive nature as they liked Dhonis cool nature.

Kohli reminds me of Sourav Ganguly, while Dhohi was more like Sachin Tendulkar and Mohammad Azharuddin. And at this point, we need to remember that the Indian team reached its peak success under the captaincy of Sourav Ganguly. The calm and cool attitude of Sachin/Azharuddin went well with the fans, but they never achieved the sort of success that was enjoyed under the leadership of Ganguly.

ene1980

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Quote from: mersal on December 20, 2019, 02:13:55 PM

There is a difference to be honest,if a match is sliding from the hands of team Kohli seems giving up most of the time but Dhoni keep the things as long as possible and will let the match get dragged until the last ball and he got most success as well but thing is anyone can be same as other and Kohli is also good and better as player if years passes he will get more tactics to handle match pressure as Dhoni.

I completely agree with this analogy as kohli is an aggressive player and who likes to take on challenges and he is the best player when chasing a total but you cannot compare him with one of the best captain in the world Dhoni, Taylor, Steve Waugh, Ponting and Clive Lloyd, Kohli is the captain of Royal Challengers and he is yet to make any astonishing performance as a captain while the team Dhoni is leading has won the IPL most of the time and that comparison alone will make anyone understand the impact Dhoni has on any team, so i will not compare anyone with Dhoni as a player or as a captain.

mersal

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Quote from: suvo05 on December 20, 2019, 01:21:46 PM

Quote from: RapTarX on December 20, 2019, 08:58:31 AM

No one can deny that either. MS Dhoni was better known for his cool captaincy even he is in much pressure which most captain can't; only because of his decisions, India got a lot of matches won while things could be different. Comparing Kohli with MSD would be useless I guess. Virat is best in his place. Having a captain with great wicket keeper & batting is certainly great benefit for a team; in the same manner, having a top leading batsman is also a great benefit for a team which is Kohli.
They both are pretty much good captain from their own place.

With so much dissimilarity we could find a similarity between the two, they both lead from the front. Dhoni as captain used to set examples for the other player with his performance specially in run chase. Similarly Kohli use to do the same he leads the team from the front. When both are good with different kind of mentality then why the comparisons. I don't want to see clam cool Kohli, everyone loves his aggressive nature as they liked Dhonis cool nature.

There is a difference to be honest,if a match is sliding from the hands of team Kohli seems giving up most of the time but Dhoni keep the things as long as possible and will let the match get dragged until the last ball and he got most success as well but thing is anyone can be same as other and Kohli is also good and better as player if years passes he will get more tactics to handle match pressure as Dhoni.

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Quote from: RapTarX on December 20, 2019, 08:58:31 AM

No one can deny that either. MS Dhoni was better known for his cool captaincy even he is in much pressure which most captain can't; only because of his decisions, India got a lot of matches won while things could be different. Comparing Kohli with MSD would be useless I guess. Virat is best in his place. Having a captain with great wicket keeper & batting is certainly great benefit for a team; in the same manner, having a top leading batsman is also a great benefit for a team which is Kohli.
They both are pretty much good captain from their own place.

With so much dissimilarity we could find a similarity between the two, they both lead from the front. Dhoni as captain used to set examples for the other player with his performance specially in run chase. Similarly Kohli use to do the same he leads the team from the front. When both are good with different kind of mentality then why the comparisons. I don't want to see clam cool Kohli, everyone loves his aggressive nature as they liked Dhonis cool nature.

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Quote from: Alaric05 on December 20, 2019, 07:01:05 AM

There is no doubt that Mr captain cool Ms Dhoni will always be known for his incredible decisions and calmness on the ground because he not only played the game, he really knew the game. Things little bit changed with Kohli he is a fantastic player no doubt but sometimes odds are against him, his decisions sometimes doesn't justify the game,Correct decision on correct time made Dhoni a lucky charm for India.

No one can deny that either. MS Dhoni was better known for his cool captaincy even he is in much pressure which most captain can't; only because of his decisions, India got a lot of matches won while things could be different. Comparing Kohli with MSD would be useless I guess. Virat is best in his place. Having a captain with great wicket keeper & batting is certainly great benefit for a team; in the same manner, having a top leading batsman is also a great benefit for a team which is Kohli.
They both are pretty much good captain from their own place.

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on December 20, 2019, 07:22:54 AM

One thing that I like about Kohli is that he is in good terms with almost all the players, partly because of his long association with them. If the captaincy is given to some other player, then he may not be able to maintain the same level of bonding. Commanding the players may be difficult for Rohit, because he doesn't have the same level of respect from the other team members, that Virat enjoys.

I have no idea what you are trying to tell here, Rohit Sharma is a senior in the limited over format than Virat Kohli and he is the captain of Mumbai Indians and why is there an issue between the players and Rohit, they both have a level of respect and i do not see any different groups in the team and if that happens then India cannot perform well like this for a long time and during the absence of Kohli, Rohit is the captain and he does have a good record.

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Quote from: quality.crypto on December 20, 2019, 01:17:34 AM

I agree with you, Kohli is aggressive when he is fielding against opponents, As a captain, he need to be aggressive in order to activate their boys because each person will be different views and thoughts. While batting he is performing well and this makes him be aggressive.

One thing that I like about Kohli is that he is in good terms with almost all the players, partly because of his long association with them. If the captaincy is given to some other player, then he may not be able to maintain the same level of bonding. Commanding the players may be difficult for Rohit, because he doesn't have the same level of respect from the other team members, that Virat enjoys.

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Quote from: quality.crypto on December 20, 2019, 01:17:34 AM

Quote from: mersal on December 19, 2019, 03:23:52 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 02:41:57 PM

I don't buy this argument that kohli need more time, we shouldn't forget this india is yet to win any major icc tournament under his captaincy.

--Lost semis in world cup
--Lost final in champions trophy
--Messed up IPL journey as captain (2013 and counting)
--T-20 world Cup coming ( hope dhoni play lol )

If by any chance BCCI adopt 2 captains policy for different format then Rohit is good to go in limited over cricket and that would be my first choice as well. ICC tournament matters in the world cricket.

Kohli seems unlucky while captaining for big trophies,just my opinion though.

We all knows that he is aggressive captain and completely different from captain cool MSD but still India shines as best team but they need to be careful while playing big matches,more responsibility will come to captain so need to be calm rather than being aggressive while fielding against opponents.

I agree with you, Kohli is aggressive when he is fielding against opponents, As a captain, he need to be aggressive in order to activate their boys because each person will be different views and thoughts. While batting he is performing well and this makes him be aggressive.

There is no doubt that Mr captain cool Ms Dhoni will always be known for his incredible decisions and calmness on the ground because he not only played the game, he really knew the game. Things little bit changed with Kohli he is a fantastic player no doubt but sometimes odds are against him, his decisions sometimes doesn't justify the game,Correct decision on correct time made Dhoni a lucky charm for India.

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Quote from: mersal on December 19, 2019, 03:23:52 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 02:41:57 PM

I don't buy this argument that kohli need more time, we shouldn't forget this india is yet to win any major icc tournament under his captaincy.

--Lost semis in world cup
--Lost final in champions trophy
--Messed up IPL journey as captain (2013 and counting)
--T-20 world Cup coming ( hope dhoni play lol )

If by any chance BCCI adopt 2 captains policy for different format then Rohit is good to go in limited over cricket and that would be my first choice as well. ICC tournament matters in the world cricket.

Kohli seems unlucky while captaining for big trophies,just my opinion though.

We all knows that he is aggressive captain and completely different from captain cool MSD but still India shines as best team but they need to be careful while playing big matches,more responsibility will come to captain so need to be calm rather than being aggressive while fielding against opponents.

I agree with you, Kohli is aggressive when he is fielding against opponents, As a captain, he need to be aggressive in order to activate their boys because each person will be different views and thoughts. While batting he is performing well and this makes him be aggressive.

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Quote from: RapTarX on December 19, 2019, 12:13:41 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 11:24:54 AM

Bhai, BCCI already does that. Every time kohli skips any ODI or T-20 series, Rohit steps up as a captain and his winning stats speaks for itself. not to mention his IPL gig as a captain, that's why everyone fancy about this scenario.

I don't really feel any need of thinking/replacing/trying any other player as captain. Virat Kohli is really doing pretty well I guess. He needs some more time, eventually he will be one of the best as well. He has still a lot of time to lead the team. Moreover, Rohit is a proven good captain; can be replaced as well latwr if needed.

Well.. that's the point. Virat Kohli is doing pretty well, and in my opinion there is no need to change the captaincy. I guess Rohit can assume the responsibilities, in cases where Virat is not available. The current Indian team is perhaps the most stable one we had for the last three decades and I don't want to destroy that stability. Just give another 2-3 years to Virat, and I am sure that he'll be able to make the Indian team no.1 in all the three formats. I agree that he didn't had much success with the ICC tournaments. But it has more to do with back luck, rather than a lack of skills.

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Quote from: mersal on December 19, 2019, 03:23:52 PM

~snip
Kohli seems unlucky while captaining for big trophies,just my opinion though.

We all knows that he is aggressive captain and completely different from captain cool MSD but still India shines as best team but they need to be careful while playing big matches,more responsibility will come to captain so need to be calm rather than being aggressive while fielding against opponents.

Do you really think that Kohli is really unlucky or he is just aggressive all the time, you cannot win like that all the time as a team as he might perform but you have to remember that it is a team sport and if the captain is aggressive and then there are young players it will put a massive amount of pressure for these members to perform and it might not come out as planned and that is the biggest problem i see in him as a captain.

mersal

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 02:41:57 PM

I don't buy this argument that kohli need more time, we shouldn't forget this india is yet to win any major icc tournament under his captaincy.

--Lost semis in world cup
--Lost final in champions trophy
--Messed up IPL journey as captain (2013 and counting)
--T-20 world Cup coming ( hope dhoni play lol )

If by any chance BCCI adopt 2 captains policy for different format then Rohit is good to go in limited over cricket and that would be my first choice as well. ICC tournament matters in the world cricket.

Kohli seems unlucky while captaining for big trophies,just my opinion though.

We all knows that he is aggressive captain and completely different from captain cool MSD but still India shines as best team but they need to be careful while playing big matches,more responsibility will come to captain so need to be calm rather than being aggressive while fielding against opponents.

JSRAW

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Quote from: RapTarX on December 19, 2019, 12:13:41 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 11:24:54 AM

Bhai, BCCI already does that. Every time kohli skips any ODI or T-20 series, Rohit steps up as a captain and his winning stats speaks for itself. not to mention his IPL gig as a captain, that's why everyone fancy about this scenario.

I don't really feel any need of thinking/replacing/trying any other player as captain. Virat Kohli is really doing pretty well I guess. He needs some more time, eventually he will be one of the best as well. He has still a lot of time to lead the team. Moreover, Rohit is a proven good captain; can be replaced as well latwr if needed.

I don't want any changes on captaincy either but for completely different reasons. Main reason is i prefer one captain for all 3 formats (pointed by @mersal too ) and as of now Rohit is not established player in the test format despite his excellent performance in home season. In india if you are not performing in SENA countries (test) then no one consider you captain material. So Virat is irreplaceable in the test, under his captaincy india is doing exceptionally well with out any doubt ( despite many fuck ups in SA and ENG). Ajinkya Rahane was in race for test captaincy though but he's a old news now.

In shorter format its different ball game and i don't really enjoy his captaincy when i compare him with Rohit. I don't buy this argument that kohli need more time, we shouldn't forget this india is yet to win any major icc tournament under his captaincy.

--Lost semis in world cup
--Lost final in champions trophy
--Messed up IPL journey as captain (2013 and counting)
--T-20 world Cup coming ( hope dhoni play lol )

If by any chance BCCI adopt 2 captains policy for different format then Rohit is good to go in limited over cricket and that would be my first choice as well. ICC tournament matters in the world cricket.

RapTarX

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 19, 2019, 11:24:54 AM

Bhai, BCCI already does that. Every time kohli skips any ODI or T-20 series, Rohit steps up as a captain and his winning stats speaks for itself. not to mention his IPL gig as a captain, that's why everyone fancy about this scenario.

I don't really feel any need of thinking/replacing/trying any other player as captain. Virat Kohli is really doing pretty well I guess. He needs some more time, eventually he will be one of the best as well. He has still a lot of time to lead the team. Moreover, Rohit is a proven good captain; can be replaced as well latwr if needed.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 1120. (Read 160562 times)