ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 335.

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Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on November 24, 2023, 08:20:03 AM

You seem forgot to read except for the final in his statement, the dew changed the context to be hoest but its part of the game and the teams should stratgize accordingly. What Iwould like to say is India scored that 240 runs purely because of their batting excellence, if its any other team the score wouldn't even touched 200 including Australia if they got an option to bat first.

Kohli will be surely fit for the next 4 years to play cricket and Rohit too can play the next T20I world cup so nothing is over yet and who know what they will decide.

Well.. actually I don't think that dew played any significant part in the finals. We are diverting from the main factor. Indian batsmen failed to put up a decent total. 280 would have been a winning total at Ahmedabad, but 240 was below par. Given this, even if dew was not there I really doubt whether India would have won the match. BTW, I find it strange that Indians are complaining about the dew factor, given the fact that they had the home advantage. If anyone should complain, it should be the visiting teams such as Australia.

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Quote from: JSRAW on November 24, 2023, 05:04:09 AM

In fact, Dew hardly played any role in this WC, which was actually surprising. Except for the Finals so i don't think we could blame anyone for this.

It's true that dew hardly came into play in most WC matches, but it did come into play in the final which is why this debate makes sense. No team deserves to be blamed for unfair pitch conditions.

This sort of unfair crap makes cricket less exciting as a sport(WC 2019 controversy, WC 2023 pitch issue etc) which truly sucks.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 24, 2023, 05:58:50 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on November 24, 2023, 05:04:09 AM

It wasn't the first D/N match in the tournament, more than 95% of matches were scheduled in the same time slot and it's not like dew and toss played a major part in the majority of the matches.

In fact, Dew hardly played any role in this WC, which was actually surprising. Except for the Finals so i don't think we could blame anyone for this.

Agreed. I don't think that dew was a major factor in the final, or in any of the other matches. Anyway, Indians can't complain about it. They had the home advantage and in case Australia had lost the toss then none of this debate would even happen. It is very simple. India lost the match because their batsmen failed during middle overs. And then the target was too small and the bowlers also didn't had much room for maneuvering. The next target should be T20 World Cup of 2024, which is less than 6 months away. It will be a great irony, if India never wins an ICC trophy before the Kohli-Rohit duo retires.

You seem forgot to read except for the final in his statement, the dew changed the context to be hoest but its part of the game and the teams should stratgize accordingly. What Iwould like to say is India scored that 240 runs purely because of their batting excellence, if its any other team the score wouldn't even touched 200 including Australia if they got an option to bat first.

Kohli will be surely fit for the next 4 years to play cricket and Rohit too can play the next T20I world cup so nothing is over yet and who know what they will decide.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 23, 2023, 09:13:42 PM

The first round of Vijay Hazare Trophy has started in India. This is the domestic 50-over competition, and will be participated by all the 38 first-class sides in India. There was an exciting match at KL Saini Ground in Jaipur between Maharashtra and Jharkhand. Maharashtra batted first and piled up 355/4 after 50 overs. However Jharkhand chased down the target with 2 overs to spare, with Virat Singh making 143 from 116 balls. In another close match, Kerala won their match against Saurashtra by 3 wickets (chasing a target of 186).

Vijay hizara trophy Jharkhand after winning the toss and gave Maharashtra to batting first. Maharashtra made 355/4 in 50 overs. K. Jadhav, A. Kazi and Bhosale made fiftes and A.Bawne 107 runs help to gave a good target to apposite side. V. Aaron take 2 wickets gave 52 runs in 10 overs. Jharkhand chased the target 359/4 with 2 overs left. Captain played very well inning 143 on 116 balls with 16 fours and 4 sixes Vishal, Tiwary and Kushagra fiftes make important role to win this match. P Dadhe and P. Solanki takes 2, 2 wickets.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 24, 2023, 05:58:50 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on November 24, 2023, 05:04:09 AM

It wasn't the first D/N match in the tournament, more than 95% of matches were scheduled in the same time slot and it's not like dew and toss played a major part in the majority of the matches.

In fact, Dew hardly played any role in this WC, which was actually surprising. Except for the Finals so i don't think we could blame anyone for this.

Agreed. I don't think that dew was a major factor in the final, or in any of the other matches. Anyway, Indians can't complain about it. They had the home advantage and in case Australia had lost the toss then none of this debate would even happen. It is very simple. India lost the match because their batsmen failed during middle overs. And then the target was too small and the bowlers also didn't had much room for maneuvering. The next target should be T20 World Cup of 2024, which is less than 6 months away. It will be a great irony, if India never wins an ICC trophy before the Kohli-Rohit duo retires.

India played at their home ground. And so they should not complain about the pitch or the field. They really know each pitch and the weather very well.
The main reason for the defeat of the Indian team is their bad batting. Although the Indian batsmen have batted brilliantly in each of the previous matches, they suddenly lost form in the final. They could not stay at the crease for long against the Australian bowlers. Apart from the three experienced batsmen in the squad, Rohit, Rahul and Kohli, no other batsman can do well. And given a target of only 241 runs, it was not possible to resist a team like Australia. If the target was 280+ maybe the Indian bowlers could have done better.

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Quote from: JSRAW on November 24, 2023, 05:04:09 AM

It wasn't the first D/N match in the tournament, more than 95% of matches were scheduled in the same time slot and it's not like dew and toss played a major part in the majority of the matches.

In fact, Dew hardly played any role in this WC, which was actually surprising. Except for the Finals so i don't think we could blame anyone for this.

Agreed. I don't think that dew was a major factor in the final, or in any of the other matches. Anyway, Indians can't complain about it. They had the home advantage and in case Australia had lost the toss then none of this debate would even happen. It is very simple. India lost the match because their batsmen failed during middle overs. And then the target was too small and the bowlers also didn't had much room for maneuvering. The next target should be T20 World Cup of 2024, which is less than 6 months away. It will be a great irony, if India never wins an ICC trophy before the Kohli-Rohit duo retires.

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Quote from: Shishir99 on November 24, 2023, 03:51:17 AM

Quote from: Haunebu on November 23, 2023, 06:22:17 AM

Quote from: Shishir99 on November 23, 2023, 05:50:34 AM

The pitch was the same. But the condition of the pitch changes due to the dew at night. This happened because BCCI had to organize the Day/Night match due to their broadcaster's request for more TRP.

Yeah. These greedy boards and broadcasters are usually the reason why the pitch conditions change drastically for two teams in the same match making it completely unfair for both of them.

You won't find such an issue in sports like Basketball, Baseball etc in comparison.

At least someone understood my point. It's true that broadcasters and the boards/event organizers want to make money from those tournaments, but it also changes the luck of the teams. The toss plays a big role in day/night matches. I feel like if India could have won the toss and elected to bowl first, they could have been the World Cup winner today.

All those are just excuses at this moment. Yeah, Dew cannot change the match conditions in Basketball, soccer and some more games because both team has to face the same condition at the same time.

It wasn't the first D/N match in the tournament, more than 95% of matches were scheduled in the same time slot and it's not like dew and toss played a major part in the majority of the matches.

In fact, Dew hardly played any role in this WC, which was actually surprising. Except for the Finals so i don't think we could blame anyone for this.

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Quote from: Haunebu on November 23, 2023, 06:22:17 AM

Quote from: Shishir99 on November 23, 2023, 05:50:34 AM

The pitch was the same. But the condition of the pitch changes due to the dew at night. This happened because BCCI had to organize the Day/Night match due to their broadcaster's request for more TRP.

Yeah. These greedy boards and broadcasters are usually the reason why the pitch conditions change drastically for two teams in the same match making it completely unfair for both of them.

You won't find such an issue in sports like Basketball, Baseball etc in comparison.

At least someone understood my point. It's true that broadcasters and the boards/event organizers want to make money from those tournaments, but it also changes the luck of the teams. The toss plays a big role in day/night matches. I feel like if India could have won the toss and elected to bowl first, they could have been the World Cup winner today.

All those are just excuses at this moment. Yeah, Dew cannot change the match conditions in Basketball, soccer and some more games because both team has to face the same condition at the same time.

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Quote from: synchronym on November 24, 2023, 02:21:27 AM

The best batsmen that India has, the Indian government selects their players from different states of India. This is where the Vijay Hazari Trophy has started in India, some good quality players will come out. They will play in the IPL and those who will do well in the IPL will be given a chance in the national team. This is how Team India selects their best players. If our Bangladesh team management was like this then maybe our Bangladesh team would have been in a better position. Our cricket improved when our Bangladesh team Shakib Al Hasan Tamim Iqbal Mashrafe bin Murtaza Mahmudullah Riyad Mushfiqur Rahim played in the national team. Bangladesh had the power to beat anyone in the world. A good batsman did not come after that. So our cricket management of Bangladesh should select good quality cricket from different districts of Bangladesh and give opportunity to play in national team.

There are reasons why domestic cricket in India is not as strong as that in England or Australia. Sheffield Shield and County Championship always maintain the highest quality and Indian domestic cricket comes nowhere near that. Even the Plunkett Shield (NZ) and the domestic competitions in West Indies and South Africa maintain a superior quality when compared to that in India. There are two main reasons - first of all, most of the capped players skip their domestic duties, and also there are a total of 38 domestic teams and as a result the quality gets diluted.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 23, 2023, 09:13:42 PM

The first round of Vijay Hazare Trophy has started in India. This is the domestic 50-over competition, and will be participated by all the 38 first-class sides in India. There was an exciting match at KL Saini Ground in Jaipur between Maharashtra and Jharkhand. Maharashtra batted first and piled up 355/4 after 50 overs. However Jharkhand chased down the target with 2 overs to spare, with Virat Singh making 143 from 116 balls. In another close match, Kerala won their match against Saurashtra by 3 wickets (chasing a target of 186).

The best batsmen that India has, the Indian government selects their players from different states of India. This is where the Vijay Hazari Trophy has started in India, some good quality players will come out. They will play in the IPL and those who will do well in the IPL will be given a chance in the national team. This is how Team India selects their best players. If our Bangladesh team management was like this then maybe our Bangladesh team would have been in a better position. Our cricket improved when our Bangladesh team Shakib Al Hasan Tamim Iqbal Mashrafe bin Murtaza Mahmudullah Riyad Mushfiqur Rahim played in the national team. Bangladesh had the power to beat anyone in the world. A good batsman did not come after that. So our cricket management of Bangladesh should select good quality cricket from different districts of Bangladesh and give opportunity to play in national team.

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Quote from: jasonjm on November 24, 2023, 12:23:41 AM

I don't know why India chose this particular pitch for the final match and did not select the pitch which would help them in batting.

As you may know, The ICC World Cup 2023 was not completely dominated by India. Although India was a host country. As the host nation, India is enjoying a lot of opportunities and trying to enjoy some more opportunities but the final match was a completely different story. The selection of the Narendra Modi Stadium was pre-determined by the ICC Management. And India was not completely in control of this stadium selection. If India had the chance, they would have controlled the pitch. India had nothing to do here. So I could not agree with your question or this issue.

India is a talented team though. And Australia was already a very strong team, Australia lost the first two matches to fool themselves. Anyway, bro, it's no use talking now. When people make mistakes, they have nothing to do. It is true that the conditions back that day were not really conducive to the first innings, i.e. not conducive to the batsmen.

And not to mention Monster Maxwell of Australia bro, I feel like the 11 players of the Australian team play sports. Australia will take 11 ICC World Cups, and Australia will keep the next World Cups at home. As if each player has one ICC World Cup. I congratulate the Australian Cricket Team for the upcoming World Cup. Have a good day Australian Cricket Team!

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Quote from: jasonjm on November 24, 2023, 12:23:41 AM

Australians were very good at reading the pitch. They have played a lot of cricket in India. They knew that the pitch was made up of black soil, which gave a good turn and bounce in the afternoon and became absolute rode under light and dew. This is the reason they have decided to bowl first in the final match.
I don't know why India chose this particular pitch for the final match and did not select the pitch which would help them in batting. Their batting was exceptional, and they should have made a batting pitch on the final day.

TRP generates revenue, and the money is what everyone is after. So, you can not blame BCCI for organising a day/ night match. Usually, the ICC tournament matches are Day/ Night because of the spectators' turnout.

Australians are an intelligent nation, they look deeply into batting, bowling, fielding and the effects of pitch and weather. They never see whether it is Asian wickets or Western wickets, they always take decisions according to the occasion. Like us, they do not depend only on batting and bowling, but take full advantage of the ground environment. This is the reason why he became the champion for the sixth time, which they certainly deserves.

I think India won the matches on the batting pitch in all the matches of the World Cup and finally faced the bowling pitch, because in all the Indian matches before the final, the Indian batsmen showed great batting, and kept the opposition bowlers under pressure, but in the final match, their batsmen and bowlers faced a lot of pressure.

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Quote from: Shishir99 on November 23, 2023, 05:50:34 AM

The pitch was the same. But the condition of the pitch changes due to the dew at night. This happened because BCCI had to organize the Day/Night match due to their broadcaster's request for more TRP.

Australians were very good at reading the pitch. They have played a lot of cricket in India. They knew that the pitch was made up of black soil, which gave a good turn and bounce in the afternoon and became absolute rode under light and dew. This is the reason they have decided to bowl first in the final match.
I don't know why India chose this particular pitch for the final match and did not select the pitch which would help them in batting. Their batting was exceptional, and they should have made a batting pitch on the final day.

TRP generates revenue, and the money is what everyone is after. So, you can not blame BCCI for organising a day/ night match. Usually, the ICC tournament matches are Day/ Night because of the spectators' turnout.

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The first round of Vijay Hazare Trophy has started in India. This is the domestic 50-over competition, and will be participated by all the 38 first-class sides in India. There was an exciting match at KL Saini Ground in Jaipur between Maharashtra and Jharkhand. Maharashtra batted first and piled up 355/4 after 50 overs. However Jharkhand chased down the target with 2 overs to spare, with Virat Singh making 143 from 116 balls. In another close match, Kerala won their match against Saurashtra by 3 wickets (chasing a target of 186).

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Quote from: 2girls on November 23, 2023, 01:22:01 PM

Pitch was quite good for both the teams even I didn't see that the teams were a little confused due to the Team. Even this was Indian home ground also and at this place they played like this.

The new ball in cricket and the old ball matters a lot as the pacers from each team have good bowling and good pace when they are playing with the new ball and they are better with the new ball. But also when the teams are going for the toss they first see the pitch

After getting a review of the pitch then they get their choice of bowling and batting.

Maybe you need to update your ODI rules, ICC already brought 2 new ball rule so both team will have fresh ball when they start their innings but the difference is the batting condition might change in the evening which is risky in both ODIs and T20 but in test cricket it doesn't change it wonly get better for bowling day after day.

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Quote from: HONDACD125 on November 23, 2023, 11:56:39 AM

You are right that the pitch can often play an vital role within the victory or defeat of any team. One group benefits from that, at the same time as the opposite team loses because of the pitch. This happens a lot in day-night time matches. Basketball cannot be in comparison to cricket, basketball is a different game. There is likewise a distinction among cricket and baseball. In baseball, the ball reaches the batsman with out touching the pitch, in cricket, the ball is taken to the batsman after hitting the pitch, and the complete tale starts offevolved from right here.

In cricket, new ball old ball, new pitch, old pitch, day, night, all these things have a great effect. So winning the toss is very important before the match, because both teams carefully review the pitch before the match begins, and it is decided to look at the pitch condition and weather conditions whether to bat or bowling.

Pitch was quite good for both the teams even I didn't see that the teams were a little confused due to the Team. Even this was Indian home ground also and at this place they played like this.

The new ball in cricket and the old ball matters a lot as the pacers from each team have good bowling and good pace when they are playing with the new ball and they are better with the new ball. But also when the teams are going for the toss they first see the pitch

After getting a review of the pitch then they get their choice of bowling and batting.

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Quote from: HONDACD125 on November 23, 2023, 11:56:39 AM

Basketball cannot be in comparison to cricket, basketball is a different game.

Why not? Both are team sports where the surface matters a lot. The big difference here is that Basketball surfaces are fair to all teams while Cricket surfaces are not always fair to the teams involved.

Quote from: HONDACD125 on November 23, 2023, 11:56:39 AM

In cricket, new ball old ball, new pitch, old pitch, day, night, all these things have a great effect. So winning the toss is very important before the match, because both teams carefully review the pitch before the match begins, and it is decided to look at the pitch condition and weather conditions whether to bat or bowling.

Yup. This is why toss plays a very important role in determining the outcome of a cricket match.

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Quote from: Haunebu on November 23, 2023, 06:22:17 AM

Yeah. These greedy boards and broadcasters are usually the reason why the pitch conditions change drastically for two teams in the same match making it completely unfair for both of them.

You won't find such an issue in sports like Basketball, Baseball etc in comparison.

You are right that the pitch can often play an vital role within the victory or defeat of any team. One group benefits from that, at the same time as the opposite team loses because of the pitch. This happens a lot in day-night time matches. Basketball cannot be in comparison to cricket, basketball is a different game. There is likewise a distinction among cricket and baseball. In baseball, the ball reaches the batsman with out touching the pitch, in cricket, the ball is taken to the batsman after hitting the pitch, and the complete tale starts offevolved from right here.

In cricket, new ball old ball, new pitch, old pitch, day, night, all these things have a great effect. So winning the toss is very important before the match, because both teams carefully review the pitch before the match begins, and it is decided to look at the pitch condition and weather conditions whether to bat or bowling.

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Quote from: Nalain420 on November 23, 2023, 05:20:14 AM

Quote from: Cheema02 on November 22, 2023, 09:59:09 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on November 22, 2023, 09:44:19 PM

Quote from: HelliumZ on November 22, 2023, 06:43:13 PM

Mohammed Shami has taken almost five wickets in every match he has played. One got a wicket in the final match so can blame the bowlers in the final match. In this case I will admit that India is unlucky because India lost their luck that day. If India had won the toss and decided to field on that day, India could have become the champion of this World Cup. However, if the luck is bad, one has to fall into a bad situation from any side.

Mohammed Shami found himself left out of the playing XI a few times recently, but in the end he managed to storm in to the squad. In the first few matches of the world cup, India decided to go with the combination of Mohammed Siraj and Jasprit Bumrah, and there was no room to include Shami. But despite all that, he finished the tournament as the top wicket taker. I was actually disappointed with the performance from both Siraj and Bumrah. They took wickets against weak opponents, but crumbled while bowling under pressure situations.

Muhammad Shami top wickets tacker bowler of the world cup they picked 24 wickets in just 9 matches of world cup and second Adam Zampa for picking 23 wickets in 11 matches and Virat kholi is top scorer of tournament but India lose the final match one soded that a quite disappointing for india. I think this lose not that Indian Bowler's didn't perform well but due to batting performance of team india is responsible beacuse if they are add 40 to 50 more runs in the total then it will be challenging for Australia to chase down. India didn't get advantage of home ground they losse match after Australia winning the toss in start of match.

Mohammad Shami bowled very well in all the matches of ICC World Cup 2023 and took 24 wickets in all the matches.The Australian team played the final match very well and everyone will be surprised to see this match that Australia won the match. Yes that's true indian batsman could not good performance. If the Indian batsmen tried something, they were going to be a tough target. Australia took a very good decision after winning the toss.

Undoubtedly Australia team won the toss first and the Australia captain took right decision to field. Before the 2023 World Cup final match, the Australian captain of the page conference said that 1.5 million in the stadium will silence the cricket fans. Indeed, the Australian captain kept his word. Almost 1.5 million Indian cricket fans were silenced by Australia's good game. They managed to restrict the strong batsmen like India to 240 runs. The 2023 World Cup will be a nightmare for India. Team India has won all the matches since the beginning. But earlier in 2003, India could not win the championship after losing to Australia. The same thing happened in 2023 World Cup

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Quote from: Sithara007 on November 23, 2023, 02:49:39 AM

Quote from: LDL on November 23, 2023, 02:24:22 AM

Your idea is 100% true and everyone will agree with your idea. If the Indian team management had given importance to the team selection and chosen to bowl on the Ahmedabad pitch, they might not have performed so badly that day. Rahul Dravid's team selection was not wrong, but they should have considered the spin on the pitch that day. Only Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, and KL Rahul's contribution was noticeable that day but others contribution fully zero.

I am not sure whether Rahul Dravid was given 100% freedom in team selection. I was not very happy with the way Mohammed Shami was left out of the first couple of matches, and also the way they treated Ravichandran Ashwin. The current selection criteria hasn't worked well, as we have seen from the failure of the Indian team during world cup finals. I would suggest providing complete freedom to Dravid, at least for the next 12 months, and also some of the senior players (especially guys such as KL Rahul) needs to be rested and replaced with younger players.

Before this event there were few things which were indicating relationship is not good between Rahul Dravid and BCCI officials which is clearly indicating he was not in full control but still he has done good job and bring this team to the top in all formats specially having this performance will be remembered for years even they lost final but still they were best in business and few selections surely creating controversies, but now all ended after the end of this event.

But here just one failure bring many things wide open which are surely not good because they were good and on target throughout event but at the end Australian done good job to outclass them in final game now hopefully we will have completely new team for the white-ball format which will bring better results with Hardick Pandya could be good leader as well.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 335. (Read 170558 times)