[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 5.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: squatter on July 27, 2019, 02:53:23 PM

That they felt the need to respond to a little crypto rag in this manner -- it just feels really pathetic to me. Can you imagine businesses like Bitstamp, Gemini or Coinbase talking in this way? Clearly, Bitfinex is a different caliber of exchange

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes right now

It may look and feel like really pathetic (well, it definitely does) but it is not us who they (Bitfinex) should be afraid of or whose opinion care about at the moment. If you look at it with this perspective in mind, it may make sense after all, given they have a hearing on Monday (if I'm not mistaken), and a judge, or rather the judge, may find it totally appropriate. Once again, we don't see the whole picture, only minute details which make no sense to us. But it doesn't mean that the whole painting is as meaningless

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: malevolent on July 27, 2019, 08:56:54 AM

Quote from: squatter on July 27, 2019, 05:40:52 AM

Does this come off as childish and unprofessional to anyone else? The Block wrote an article about the apparent ease with which NY residents can trade on Bitfinex. This was Bitfinex's response:

They don't really have much of a choice, do they? They have to show they don't want to United States residents using their exchange, and discriminating based on IP addresses used would be unfair towards users using US-hosted VPNs, or bots hosted on US VPSes.

The US government doesn't care one bit about articles from The Block nor Bitfinex's announcements. From an optics standpoint, I see nothing to gain from these outbursts. That announcement comes off like amateur hour, like a child trying to get out of being in trouble.

Threatening to report customers to the authorities for clicking "I am not a US resident?" Roll Eyes

No authorities in the world care if anyone breaks Bitfinex's terms. It seems obvious that the announcement is just hot air and empty threats.

That they felt the need to respond to a little crypto rag in this manner -- it just feels really pathetic to me. Can you imagine businesses like Bitstamp, Gemini or Coinbase talking in this way? Clearly, Bitfinex is a different caliber of exchange.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1721

Quote from: squatter on July 27, 2019, 05:40:52 AM

Does this come off as childish and unprofessional to anyone else? The Block wrote an article about the apparent ease with which NY residents can trade on Bitfinex. This was Bitfinex's response:

They don't really have much of a choice, do they? They have to show they don't want United States residents using their exchange, and discriminating based on IP addresses used would be unfair towards users using US-hosted VPNs, or bots hosted on US VPSes.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: squatter on July 27, 2019, 05:40:52 AM

Does this come off as childish and unprofessional to anyone else? The Block wrote an article about the apparent ease with which NY residents can trade on Bitfinex

Childish and unprofessional on whose part exactly?

This user agreed to Bitfinex ToS and by agreeing to them he confirmed that he is not the US resident. Now it turns out that he has deliberately lied about his residency. And what do we have to expect next? Him coming here to complain that the exchange wronged him by blocking his account and taking his money? Why do I have a feeling we have already seen something like that before? Just curious

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Does this come off as childish and unprofessional to anyone else? The Block wrote an article about the apparent ease with which NY residents can trade on Bitfinex. This was Bitfinex's response:

Quote

Earlier today, we were contacted by Frank Chaparro of The Block seeking comment on a story about an unnamed person opening a Bitfinex account from New York and then withdrawing digital tokens from that account.

We have now identified this user. We correctly flagged this user’s IP address as being in the U.S. Notwithstanding the U.S. IP address — which may be used by Bitfinex customers, as appropriate — our system logs demonstrate that this user represented to us several times that he was not an individual resident in the U.S. This person has lied to Bitfinex on multiple occasions, deliberately and wrongly concealed his location, and flagrantly violated our terms of service.

We think it’s unfortunate that Mr. Chaparro would rather associate himself with these actions than actively attempt to help us uncover and punish fraudulent behaviour on our platform. This kind of ‘gotcha’ sting also speaks volumes about his and our other detractors’ true motivations.

We have disabled the account involved in this case. We reserve the right to report this and other fraudulent behaviours to appropriate authorities. Finally, we remind United States persons that they are not welcome on our platform and that we will continue to take action to enforce our rights and fulfill our legal obligations.

mayax

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1004

a common sense question: what's the name of Bitfinex's/Tether's bank?

where do they receive the wires from "institutional clients" ?

PrimeNumber7

copper member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1899

Amazon Prime Member #7

I guess we will see if there is any truth to these people being behind the 2016 hack, or if they just hacked several customers' accounts.

The police spokenmen did not deny the connection to financemagnates, but rather declined to comment. It is possible they had the stolen coins in some kind of cold storage, or was in a hardware wallet protected with a passphraise, or something else that would prevent the police from immediately accessing the coins.

Last of the V8s

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 4392

Be a bank

^
https://twitter.com/udiWertheimer/status/1142705852580868096

Quote

A news report this morning in Israeli website @ynetnews on 2 brothers arrested by Israeli police for stealing ~$100k in BTC from victims. No big deal right? Except police says it later found evidence they also stole $100M from Bitfinex users! Is this about the 2016 hack???

The story started here and Udi's question became fact!!1

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 24, 2019, 03:15:23 AM

There are some reports the hacker from the 2016 Bitfinex hack has been arrested. I would take this with a grain of salt until there are confirmations from reliable sources.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/report-two-israeli-brothers-arrested-for-hack-of-bitfinex-crypto-exchange

I don't think so. The authors of both the Cointelegraph article and the Finance Magnates article it's sourced from seem confused. This is all that was reported on Finance Magnates:

Quote

Another suspicion that was raised by the investigators was the brothers’ alleged connection to a 2016 hack of several accounts that traded on Bitfinex. However, the police spokesman refused to elaborate on that matter.

According to the Israeli Police, the victims are mostly EU and US citizens, and therefore the case is currently being investigated by “police cyber units in several countries”.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't look there's any real connection to the 2016 Bitfinex hack. These guys just hacked a bunch of Bitfinex accounts and emptied them out. The author of the Finance Magnates article misspoke and said it was the 2016 Bitfinex hack. Cointelegraph -- being the trash that it is -- repeated it without fact checking.

PrimeNumber7

copper member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1899

Amazon Prime Member #7

There are some reports the hacker from the 2016 Bitfinex hack has been arrested. I would take this with a grain of salt until there are confirmations from reliable sources.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/report-two-israeli-brothers-arrested-for-hack-of-bitfinex-crypto-exchange

figmentofmyass

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1483

Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on June 04, 2019, 10:33:09 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 04, 2019, 09:06:47 PM

bitfinex similarly operated as an unlicensed money transmitter for ~4 years until they finally prohibited americans. that's one potential charge against them. but it seems like the feds are more interested in market manipulation, which stems from activities in 2017.

The NYAG disagrees with this:

Quote from: NYAG

https://cdn.bnktothefuture.com/app/private/doc_files/444/other_BITFINEX_RESPONSE.pdf?1556704899

9. BFXNA is registered with the United States Department of the Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network as a money transmitter.

registering with FINCEN ≠ obtaining money transmission licenses, which are issued at the state level. FINCEN registration is required for MSBs but not sufficient to comply with all money transmission laws. coinbase, for example, has obtained several dozen money transmitter licenses to wire proceeds to/from their USA customers: https://www.coinbase.com/legal/licenses

i do think BTC-E's failure to register with FINCEN was a real slap in the face to the feds though, so there's that.

PrimeNumber7

copper member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 1899

Amazon Prime Member #7

Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 04, 2019, 09:06:47 PM

bitfinex similarly operated as an unlicensed money transmitter for ~4 years until they finally prohibited americans. that's one potential charge against them. but it seems like the feds are more interested in market manipulation, which stems from activities in 2017.

The NYAG disagrees with this:

Quote from: NYAG

https://cdn.bnktothefuture.com/app/private/doc_files/444/other_BITFINEX_RESPONSE.pdf?1556704899

9. BFXNA is registered with the United States Department of the Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network as a money transmitter.

figmentofmyass

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1483

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2019, 05:26:06 PM

Then again you make it look like the DOJ just shut down BTC-e all of a sudden (after an undisclosed investigation). But this is not the case. It was total unwillingness on the exchange part to solve issues legally. That's obviously not the case with Bitfinex who are willing to vigorously and enthusiastically fight in court as the NYAG case clearly and unequivocally shows. At worst, they will pay some fines and get away with it. In fact, market manipulation accusations are not a rare thing anyway as even the largest regular exchanges have been through this before

it wasn't about "solving issues". in the view of the USA government, they were committing crimes. BTC-E openly operated as a money transmitter without license for 6 years and didn't implement proper AML/KYC controls. as a result, the feds seized their domain, servers, bank accounts, etc. in fact, the indictment was under seal (hidden from BTC-E and the public) until the seizures occurred.

bitfinex similarly operated as an unlicensed money transmitter for ~4 years until they finally prohibited americans. that's one potential charge against them. but it seems like the feds are more interested in market manipulation, which stems from activities in 2017.

i'm amazed that people think bitfinex will keep getting away scot free. the DOJ doesn't just fine people. they aren't the CFTC. their investigation is a criminal one, not a civil one.

mayax

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1004

Quote from: malevolent on June 04, 2019, 06:16:41 PM

They weren't even able to shut them down, they just seized some servers and money in some bank accounts, and within a few weeks btc-e resumed operations under a new name (wex). About a year later they shut down due to internal disputes, among other reasons though.

Bitfinex is at least trying to pretend they care about nosy regulators, so I think worst case is they get bought out by a more 'legitimate' exchange.

A 'legitimate' exchange would apply and take a financial license ANYWHERE. Why don't they want it? It's easy to respond. A financial license means that you cannot do whatever you want with your clients money as Bitfinex gang do now...

Bitfinex is just a fraudulent company. They are hiding their "bank accounts", they are hiding their "real office" (if there is one). How can someone use a such exchanger and why?

It's a matter of time until they will be closed overnight.

illyiller

hero member

Activity: 697

Merit: 520

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2019, 05:26:06 PM

I'm not sure either that they are going to get the dirty money back, but how much of the seized amount actually belongs to an alleged drug cartel? You make it look like all 850M is that money but is it really so? If it is not and we have strong reasons not to believe it is, they will get some part of the funds back eventually. Yes, it may take years and that seems to be the primary reason for the fundraising on the Bitfinex part

Haha, good luck dude. The operators of Crypto Capital just went down for banking fraud, unlicensed money transmission, and related conspiracy charges. That money will never, ever be repaid. It's not a matter of time. Bitfinex has no standing in the case and the money is tainted. The governments involved are just going to pocket the money like in all civil forfeiture cases.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1721

They weren't even able to shut them down, they just seized some servers and money in some bank accounts, and within a few weeks btc-e resumed operations under a new name (wex). About a year later they shut down due to internal disputes, among other reasons though.

Bitfinex is at least trying to pretend they care about nosy regulators, so I think worst case is they get bought out by a more 'legitimate' exchange.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: squatter on June 04, 2019, 04:35:30 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2019, 06:01:19 AM

Quote from: squatter on June 03, 2019, 04:54:13 AM

The fact that Bitfinex lost the $850M to begin with is alarming, though

Are you sure about the lost part?

If I'm not mistaken the funds have been locked (arrested). It is not like they were irrevocably confiscated or something to that tune.

They've been seized by multiple law enforcement agencies for links to drug cartel money laundering. In cases like these, recovering the money is possible but unlikely. I certainly wouldn't plan on it. That's why Bitfinex quickly launched the LEO token fundraising effort as soon as the news broke. They know full well they're not getting the money back

The devil is in paying precious attention to detail

I'm not sure either that they are going to get the dirty money back, but how much of the seized amount actually belongs to an alleged drug cartel? You make it look like all 850M is that money but is it really so? If it is not and we have strong reasons not to believe it is, they will get some part of the funds back eventually. Yes, it may take years and that seems to be the primary reason for the fundraising on the Bitfinex part

Quote from: squatter on June 04, 2019, 04:35:30 PM

This investigation is for market manipulation. It was launched at the end of 2017 and the DOJ launched a parallel criminal investigation in late 2018. The DOJ is the agency that shut down BTC-e in 2017

Then again you make it look like the DOJ just shut down BTC-e all of a sudden (after an undisclosed investigation). But this is not the case. It was total unwillingness on the exchange part to solve issues legally. That's obviously not the case with Bitfinex who are willing to vigorously and enthusiastically fight in court as the NYAG case clearly and unequivocally shows. At worst, they will pay some fines and get away with it. In fact, market manipulation accusations are not a rare thing anyway as even the largest regular exchanges have been through this before

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2019, 06:01:19 AM

Quote from: squatter on June 03, 2019, 04:54:13 AM

The fact that Bitfinex lost the $850M to begin with is alarming, though

Are you sure about the lost part?

If I'm not mistaken the funds have been locked (arrested). It is not like they were irrevocably confiscated or something to that tune.

They've been seized by multiple law enforcement agencies for links to drug cartel money laundering. In cases like these, recovering the money is possible but unlikely. I certainly wouldn't plan on it. That's why Bitfinex quickly launched the LEO token fundraising effort as soon as the news broke. They know full well they're not getting the money back.

This also raises concerns about future seizures. Bitfinex operates from unregulated jurisdictions without any licenses. It's hard to imagine this happening to Coinbase or Gemini, but I could certainly imagine it happening to Bitfinex again.

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2019, 06:01:19 AM

Quote from: squatter on June 03, 2019, 04:54:13 AM

I'd be a lot more concerned about federal agencies. They spend years building cases before pouncing. The CFTC investigation goes back something like 1.5 years

Okay, they have built their case and taken Bitfinex to court, what's next? The agency in question (CFTC) had already fined the exchange a few years ago. For something like 60 grand (if my memory serves me right). Pretty insignificant amount compared to 850M in custody right now

That was a very different CFTC investigation for margin custody arrangement from several years ago.

This investigation is for market manipulation. It was launched at the end of 2017 and the DOJ launched a parallel criminal investigation in late 2018. The DOJ is the agency that shut down BTC-e in 2017.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: squatter on June 03, 2019, 04:54:13 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2019, 02:44:58 AM

Bitfinex was able to raise a billion dollars that was presumably used to repay the loan to tether.

The NYAG action has more or less been won by Bitfinex -- they no longer have to produce documents to the NYAG, and the order obtained by the NYAG has been reduced to prohibit bitfinex and tether from conducting related party transactions for some number of months.

The fact that Bitfinex lost the $850M to begin with is alarming, though

Are you sure about the lost part?

If I'm not mistaken the funds have been locked (arrested). It is not like they were irrevocably confiscated or something to that tune. And given that Bitfinex generally follows the legal path and battles in courts (unlike the infamous WEX), there is a good chance they will get their money back, at least some part of it (hopefully, the biggest part). That's likely the reason why the market has been so indulging and bailed them out

Quote from: squatter on June 03, 2019, 04:54:13 AM

I'd be a lot more concerned about federal agencies. They spend years building cases before pouncing. The CFTC investigation goes back something like 1.5 years

Okay, they have built their case and taken Bitfinex to court, what's next? The agency in question (CFTC) had already fined the exchange a few years ago. For something like 60 grand (if my memory serves me right). Pretty insignificant amount compared to 850M in custody right now

DebitMe

legendary

Activity: 2786

Merit: 1011

Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive

Quote from: Quickseller on June 03, 2019, 02:44:58 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 03, 2019, 02:34:34 AM

Quote from: DebitMe on June 02, 2019, 02:50:36 PM

Looking to start using bitfinex for lending again, how has the site been recently? Any issues with the site or reasons why it would be a bad idea to use them?

they're facing some pretty scary legal issues and were technically insolvent not long ago. they had $850 million seized by law enforcement agencies, then used a loan from tether to cover the shortfall. the NY attorney general obtained a court order against both companies. the USDOJ is also in the middle of a criminal probe of both companies.

so i would account for the legal risks when considering whether to loan there.

Bitfinex was able to raise a billion dollars that was presumably used to repay the loan to tether.

The NYAG action has more or less been won by Bitfinex -- they no longer have to produce documents to the NYAG, and the order obtained by the NYAG has been reduced to prohibit bitfinex and tether from conducting related party transactions for some number of months.

Thank you for the information, it seems like they would still be reliable to use for the time being, at least for small amounts.

Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 5. (Read 723558 times)