Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # (Read 458140 times)

My apologies to wizkid.  I wouldn't have responded at all if this user's posts weren't pointed out in my thread.  This kind of derailment is why I had my thread converted to self-moderated, but I also won't let somebody hide in another thread spouting provably false information.

That's awesome! I didn't realise Eligius did this! The coinbase message is a message encoded in the coinbase. I know that doesn't help much, but rather than OT this whole page, just check this link:
*snip*
What I understand from your quote is that Eligius is considering allowing miners to add to the coinbase message - fantastic! You can get your little bit of bitcoin immortality right here.

Yes... And no.

Each time you submit a share, the pool records it in the share log, at it's straight PPS value. When a block is found, 25 BTC worth of shares (starting from the most recent) are paid.

If the pool is unlucky, and it took more shares than average to find the block, some of the shares submitted for that block cannot be paid (since the pool does not have the money to cover them). The pool "remembers" those shares; they are shelved.

If the pool gets lucky, and it took less shares than average to find a block, pool will have some BTC left after paying every share submitted for that block. It will therefore pay whats left to the most recent shelved shares.


However, paying everybody like that in every block would be a problem: First, small miners would only get micropayments in every block; and it would be dust that accumulates in their wallet (and increases their fees when they use the coins). Second, some clients have a bug in which that cannot support a too big amount of outputs per transaction. (Doing payments like that in Eligius would cause more than 5000 output per transaction)

Therefore, Eligius implements a sort of tradeoff. Instead of directly paying the shares when they are found; it internally computes which shares are to be paid, and which shares are not (yet), without actually sending the money to the miner. Instead, it holds onto them until a given amount is accumulated (chosen by the miner), at which time the pool will send the coins.

Therefore, it means that even if the pool were to empty it's payout queue, it does not mean that everybody's shares ever submitted have been paid. It does mean, however, that nobody has accumulated enough rewarded-but-unpaid shares to be paid. (In those cases, the pool sends the block reward to an offline wallet, from which the miners will be paid when the payout queue gets long enough.)


Thus, about the graphs and stats:
The everpaid line is amount of BTC the pool has ever sent to you.
The unpaid+everpaid line is that amount, plus the value of all the shares the pool has rewarded to you, but has not set the actual money yet, because you have not met your threshold. (the unpaid amount is the amount marked in the "unpaid balance" in the table above the graph)
The maximum reward line is the total value of all the shares you ever submitted to the pool, including those it does not have the funds to pay yet.

If the pool gets lucky, "unpaid+everpaid" will get closer to "maximum reward", and may even touch it. However, they would not "meet" at the same time for all users, depending when that user joined. Most recent shelved shares being paid first, the pool would have to be lucky a lot longer to pay all the way back to 2012, when the pool began, than to pay all the shares of somebody who started one month ago.


However, nobody's payment will ever go above "maximum reward": once all your shares have been paid, all the extra coins go to paying other who have to yet been fully paid. Finally even if the pool were to clear it's whole backlog, then it would hold onto the extra coins until less lucky times.

This will be my last post on the subject but your under the assumption a miner would stay 24 Hours a day so therefor it doesnt make a difference? I and many other  miners don't stand 24 hours why would any miner want to stay during losing blocks times?lol  so the times mining there's more chance of finding blocks in 50 min and catching a good streak then 40 min just look at numbers today you never get 21 finds in a 40 min block and now shifts increase and it magically happens ! I rest my case...........

My apologies to wizkid.  I wouldn't have responded at all if this user's posts weren't pointed out in my thread.  This kind of derailment is why I had my thread converted to self-moderated, but I also won't let somebody hide in another thread spouting provably false information.

Well thank god for that notice that just appeared about the "AUTO-NOTICE: The CPPSRB reward system appears to be in fail-safe mode."  I was just about to post about my stats seeming to be frozen.

Well thank god for that notice that just appeared about the "AUTO-NOTICE: The CPPSRB reward system appears to be in fail-safe mode."  I was just about to post about my stats seeming to be frozen.

First off, I know I'm still fairly new to this, but shifts under PPLNS are determined by the number of shares submitted, not the amount of time.  Therefore the length of a round is irrelevant.  Rounds get shorter as hashing power for the pool increases, as hashing power increases so do blocks found.  So, in the long run, say the course of a day, week, month, your income will over all be the same irrelevant of the length of time each shift lasts.  

Second, when you mine for any pool under PPLNS, you will experience variance.  This is due to the fact that sometimes the pool gets lucky and finds a block in 10 minutes and sometimes it takes several hours.  The one thing you have under PPLNS rather than purely a proportional system per block, is you get paid for your shares over the course of several blocks which will help lower the variance.

The moral of the story here is that you don't look at income per share, but income over a period of time.  The only time income per share matters is under a pure PPS system where you get x per share you submit, regardless of the blocks being found.  This is riskier for pools, so most charge a higher fee, like BTC Guild's 7% vs. 3% PPLNS because they agree to pay you the same even when the pool gets unlucky.  So if you don't want to experience variance, you should switch your workers to use PPS vs. PPLNS  because it is the only way you'll get paid the same each time you find a share.

Look at the PPS the numbers don't Lie 17 blocks found today paid for 53  min round .0000000128410 per share 16 blocks today paid .0000000119444 blocks found paid
The day before 16 blocks found per round  the other day paid .00000001549055 for 40 min round  now if that was a 53 min round there would be roughly 1400000 shares paid at that price as opposed too 115000 shares paid  which those extra shares are now being paid the block under @ 15 block price of .00000001452400 pps but this is obviously over some peoples heads numbers and the PPS don't Lie it says what we are getting paid right there but hey nobody is stopping anyone from mining there if you want to work for LESS go for it!!

1. That user just exceeded their minimum payment threshold, so they just got added into the payment queue. They haven't been in the queue two weeks.
2. Under My Eligius

(decoded) �R EligiusR���mm�|�k#�nk'   �ҿ��������� �U/s0test/�{��f

Back on topic:
3 questions about Eligius.

1) When I look at the payment queue I see at number 1 "2 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours and 14 minutes"
Why is the payment for the miner so late? Or do I misunderstand something?

2) I see "+105% PPS NMC" but where is the option to fill in my NMC address?

3) I read: "Miners may suggest messages for payout coinbases." Can someone explain this?

Maybe the questions look silly in the eyes of an experienced miner, but answering helps me and maybe lot of other people.

Thanks in advance!

Look at the PPS the numbers don't Lie 17 blocks found today paid for 53  min round .0000000128410 per share 16 blocks today paid .0000000119444 blocks found paid
The day before 16 blocks found per round  the other day paid .00000001549055 for 40 min round  now if that was a 53 min round there would be roughly 1400000 shares paid at that price as opposed too 115000 shares paid  which those extra shares are now being paid the block under @ 15 block price of .00000001452400 pps but this is obviously over some peoples heads numbers and the PPS don't Lie it says what we are getting paid right there but hey nobody is stopping anyone from mining there if you want to work for LESS go for it!!

I'm not sure what you find confusing about that. You're signed up for PPLNS, so your reward is proportional to the number of blocks found. Shifts 14480 to 14488 were periods of low luck so there were less blocks found per unit time and the equivalent PPS is lower. 14449 to 14453 comparatively found many more blocks per unit time, so they paid more per share.

If you want 0 variance, sign up for PPS.

You must be the admin for BTc I understand it PERFECTLY if I do a round with 150000 shares in 50 min and it pays .0000000154 per share as opposed to a short round with 115000 shares at the same rate thats LESS MONEy Math doesn't Lie!!!!! maybe you don't understand Math? Go back to school TROLL! and go look at the numbers they just lowered the pay for winning Blocks 15 Blocks found in a round don't even equal full PPS RATE RIPPING PEOPLE OFF but of course the person scamming is not going to admit that! that would take a real MAN something your NOT! thats why BTC just FELL HERES PICTURE PROOF DUMB ASS!!

Welcome to my world.  Just don't expect them to ever start reading, they're convinced they completely understand everything already.  I find their ability to write coherent sentences is a good indicator of how much they actually know.

You don't really understand bitcoin mining yet, do you? Well, don't let it get you down - just do a lot more reading!