[OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 187.

Luke-Jr

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Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 03:56:39 PM

people messing up thinking they were looking at 90 (ninety) in his notes but was actually a kohu (one hundred)

90 (ko ton) is neither ninety nor one hundred. It is one hundred sixty (160) in decimal.
Ko ton hu (9) is one hundred seventy-one (171).
"Kohu" is nonsense.

twmz

hero member

Activity: 737

Merit: 500

Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 02:24:20 PM

That's cool, way better than the current 0.005

FYI, the current requirement enforced by the satoshi client (aka the official client) is 0.0005, not 0.005. And the official client only requires 0.0001 to relay "spam" transactions. Free transactions that don't trigger the spam detection rules are still and always have been permitted with no transaction fees (you just can't send create 0 fee transactions with the official client).

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

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Quote from: Carnth on August 04, 2011, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:37:30 PM

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet. Wink

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

I just realized this question was off-topic, but I'm posting anyway!

No it's not, it's worse Cheesy

Instead of inserting his new numerals after the normal sequence, the engineer who proposed this snuck one in between 8 and 9, he must had been laughing at the prospects of people messing up thinking they were looking at 90 (ninety) in his notes but was actually a kohu (one hundred)

Luke-Jr

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Quote from: Carnth on August 04, 2011, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:37:30 PM

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet. Wink

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Carnth

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Activity: 634

Merit: 500

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:37:30 PM

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet. Wink

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

I just realized this question was off-topic, but I'm posting anyway!

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 02:24:20 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:04:01 PM

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

Thanks for that link, the one I found earlier didn't have such a long list... although the first thing that came to mind when I saw that was "Bitcoin needs less confusing denominations!"

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet. Wink

It sounds almost like a recipe for disaster and fraud though Cheesy

"How on earth did the costs go up by 100x?!"
"It didn't, the quotation we gave you were in Tonal Bitcoins, see that little thingy in front of TBC...?"

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

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Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 02:24:20 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:04:01 PM

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

Thanks for that link, the one I found earlier didn't have such a long list... although the first thing that came to mind when I saw that was "Bitcoin needs less confusing denominations!"

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet. Wink

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 02:04:01 PM

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

Thanks for that link, the one I found earlier didn't have such a long list... although the first thing that came to mind when I saw that was "Bitcoin needs less confusing denominations!"

Quote

0.2 TBC is equivalent to 0.00004096 BTC

That's cool, way better than the current 0.005

I'll transfer my main miner to eligius just to support this

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

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Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 01:56:51 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 12:30:39 PM

"Free transaction relay policy" is in reference to the network which relays transactions without prejudice against low/no fee or non-standard transactions. Eligius is clearly listed as having a 0.2 TBC minimum transaction fee, as published elsewhere.

Ok, so this means the no-fee transactions will get relayed but in order to be processed in a block, there must be a 0.2 Tera Bitcoin transaction fee? That amount is huge so I must be misunderstanding what you mean by "TBC", could you clarify that? Thanks!

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

0.2 TBC is equivalent to 0.00004096 BTC

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 12:30:39 PM

"Free transaction relay policy" is in reference to the network which relays transactions without prejudice against low/no fee or non-standard transactions. Eligius is clearly listed as having a 0.2 TBC minimum transaction fee, as published elsewhere.

Ok, so this means the no-fee transactions will get relayed but in order to be processed in a block, there must be a 0.2 Tera Bitcoin transaction fee? That amount is huge so I must be misunderstanding what you mean by "TBC", could you clarify that? Thanks!

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: Xephan on August 04, 2011, 11:17:19 AM

In the previous Eligius thread (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.0), linked in the bitcoin wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools), there is a struck out comment about a transaction fee of "0.00004096 BTC per 512 bytes", but this is still in the wiki.

At the same time, I also read from some other threads that Luke has a transaction-free node to accept transaction and there is this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy which lists eligius as the only transaction-fee free pool.

Since there is some conflicting information, can Luke please confirm if that eligius will accept zero fee custom transaction even for small amounts like 0.0001 BTC?

"Free transaction relay policy" is in reference to the network which relays transactions without prejudice against low/no fee or non-standard transactions. Eligius is clearly listed as having a 0.2 TBC minimum transaction fee, as published elsewhere.

anodyne

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I'm pretty sure the "free" in the policy should be read as "not restricted to standard rules", rather than "free from transaction fees".

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

In the previous Eligius thread (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.0), linked in the bitcoin wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools), there is a struck out comment about a transaction fee of "0.00004096 BTC per 512 bytes", but this is still in the wiki.

At the same time, I also read from some other threads that Luke has a transaction-free node to accept transaction and there is this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy which lists eligius as the only transaction-fee free pool.

Since there is some conflicting information, can Luke please confirm if that eligius will accept zero fee custom transaction even for small amounts like 0.0001 BTC?

Luke-Jr

legendary

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Merit: 1186

The forum messed up the last poll, so please re-vote here!

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Please document any feature requests and required core (ie, not web-specific) features, including features we already have at: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Internal_requirements

If you wish to get involved with the software development side of the rewrite, contact me privately on IRC.

Luke-Jr

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New poll for theoretical (unplanned) reward system change

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Artefact2 has requested new indexes on the webserver SQL for his new graphs v3.0, so web-side SQL is down while it makes the indexes. This mainly means hashrates are showing 0.

I have also just deployed step 2 of my anti-stale improvements. Please report if you get any "invalid-time" rejected shares, or if your miner shows "idle" (especially around longpolls). Older versions of DiabloMiner have a bug, and are currently being exempted from the new behaviour (which makes it less effective for everyone), so if you use DM please upgrade to the latest version.

DiabloD3

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Activity: 1162

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DiabloMiner author

Quote from: anodyne on July 29, 2011, 12:21:12 PM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on July 29, 2011, 09:59:23 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on July 29, 2011, 09:53:13 AM

Quote from: stevang on July 29, 2011, 08:55:23 AM

Can i still use Phoenix with Eligius now? is there a list of accepted mining software?

You can still use all miners with Eligius. This change should only affect those that have broken implementations of the rollntime extension. Phoenix doesn't support this at all. Since it is a helpful feature, I would recommend switching to poclbm if you can get the same hashrate out of it (it's usually better once you find the right settings).

Except poclbm is generally slower than DiabloMiner.

Right now I'm seeing over 380 shares sent in the last hour on the ~410MH poclbm miner on my desktop machine. I haven't seen anything near that efficiency with any other client/pool combination.

Shares generated is an essentially random value. According to statistics, you should get about 344 shares in an hour at 410 mhash.

anodyne

full member

Activity: 518

Merit: 100

Quote from: DiabloD3 on July 29, 2011, 09:59:23 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on July 29, 2011, 09:53:13 AM

Quote from: stevang on July 29, 2011, 08:55:23 AM

Can i still use Phoenix with Eligius now? is there a list of accepted mining software?

You can still use all miners with Eligius. This change should only affect those that have broken implementations of the rollntime extension. Phoenix doesn't support this at all. Since it is a helpful feature, I would recommend switching to poclbm if you can get the same hashrate out of it (it's usually better once you find the right settings).

Except poclbm is generally slower than DiabloMiner.

Right now I'm seeing over 380 shares sent in the last hour on the ~410MH poclbm miner on my desktop machine. I haven't seen anything near that efficiency with any other client/pool combination.

stevang

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: twmz on July 29, 2011, 11:35:52 AM

Quote from: Dargo on July 29, 2011, 11:10:00 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on July 29, 2011, 09:53:13 AM

Quote from: stevang on July 29, 2011, 08:55:23 AM

Can i still use Phoenix with Eligius now? is there a list of accepted mining software?

You can still use all miners with Eligius. This change should only affect those that have broken implementations of the rollntime extension. Phoenix doesn't support this at all. Since it is a helpful feature, I would recommend switching to poclbm if you can get the same hashrate out of it (it's usually better once you find the right settings).

So if we use phoenix, we are missing out on a useful feature, but there won't be any hit to mining efficiency, is that correct? I'll try to figure this out on my own, but if anyone can summarize the utility of this useful feature, that would be most appreciated. I checked the wiki, but there was just enough technical jargon to make me fall shy of understanding.

Correct. Things won't be an worse for you than they have been in the past.

Besides increasing efficiency (which really only matters directly to pool operators or to those with super tight bandwidth or high bandwidth costs), ntime rolling helps protect miners from communication delays on the pool they are using.

Miners incrementing the timestamp (aka ntime rolling) are not as dependent on the pool being able to respond promptly to requests for new work units every 10-20 seconds. If a pool is stressed due to load or if there are network problems, a non-ntime-rolling miner will become idle occasionally (you may have seen warning messages about this from time to time). In contrast, with the same load or network problems, an ntime-rolling miner will just happily increment the timestamp and keep looking for additional shares.

So if you mine at a pool that routinely is overloaded or has network problems, you'll find more shares per hour with an ntime rolling miner which will translate into you getting paid more.

That i do understand

Thanks for explaining.

well, as i always got the best results from Phoenix yet, i stick with it. i tried almost every other mining software around. at least the one that does not need compiling software on linux. Is there a list with best parameters/ options related to the GPU Model for Diablo or poclbm?

Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 187. (Read 458487 times)