[OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 186.

twmz

hero member

Activity: 737

Merit: 500

Quote from: iopq on August 20, 2011, 09:44:44 AM

if the pool switched to PPLNS, would that mean that it would pay out rewards as they are earned? in other words, there would be no delay?

The minimum balance functionality (you don't get paid until your balance is > 200 TBC) would still cause payout delays. For example, if when a block is found suddenly a lot of old accounts are now above the balance, you can have more than 50 BTC due for payment. But it will typically be a shorter delay than is seen after long blocks with SMPPS. With SMPPS, we occasionally see delays of as much as 7-8 blocks. I shouldn't get that bad with PPLNS.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: iopq on August 20, 2011, 09:44:44 AM

if the pool switched to PPLNS, would that mean that it would pay out rewards as they are earned? in other words, there would be no delay?

PPLNS never rewards more than 50 BTC per block (like SMPPS does), so delays would be very rare.

gentakin

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: iopq on August 20, 2011, 09:44:44 AM

if the pool switched to PPLNS, would that mean that it would pay out rewards as they are earned? in other words, there would be no delay?

Probably not, back when eligius was proportional there was a delay as well.
It's a bad thing to have a lot of small transactions for payout, because when you spend the coins later, you have to pay higher fees and it pollutes the block chain.

Something just came to my mind that could shorten the payout queue, although I'm not sure if it works, and it seems rather dangerous to do. Why doesn't eligius put transactions with a very high fee (input: maybe 50BTC, output: maybe 0.01BTC, fee: 49.99BTC) in its blocks. The fee should be available in the generation transaction instantly and can be used for >50BTC payouts. Cheesy

Just need to make very sure that transaction is not broadcasted to the network for other pools to pick up..
And now that I mention it, of course: it's a bad idea, because the block might be orphaned later and then others can put the transaction into their own block.

iopq

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 08:18:52 AM

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

if the pool switched to PPLNS, would that mean that it would pay out rewards as they are earned? in other words, there would be no delay?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: Grinder on August 16, 2011, 01:30:31 PM

The time stamp on blocks solved by Eligius is at least 6 minutes into the future. I recommend you start syncing the time using ntp.

The timestamp does not have to be the exact time, nor is it usually based on the system clock (which is kept in sync with ntp) for Eligius.

Grinder

legendary

Activity: 1284

Merit: 1001

The time stamp on blocks solved by Eligius is at least 6 minutes into the future. I recommend you start syncing the time using ntp.

Artefact2

full member

Activity: 123

Merit: 100

Quote from: caish5 on August 15, 2011, 02:07:28 PM

Can anybody tell me why the payment per share has jumped on the latest block from 0.00002647 BTC to 0.00004292 BTC?

Not that I'm complaining!

It's a mistake, the share count is way off. I'll try to fix it.

[Edit: fixed]

caish5

sr. member

Activity: 324

Merit: 250

Can anybody tell me why the payment per share has jumped on the latest block from 0.00002647 BTC to 0.00004292 BTC?

Not that I'm complaining!

enquirer

sr. member

Activity: 306

Merit: 257

With SMPPS or any other "delayed return" system, if pool is lucky, owner has a surplus.

If pool is unlucky, the most reasonable strategy for any miner is to stop mining for that pool and go mine for another pool which is currently lucky. So, assuming all players are reasonable, pool will die. Pool owner will never have to refund any money.

So mathematical expectation (average over an infinite ensemble of all possible pools) of pool's surplus grows as ~sqrt(time).

anodyne

full member

Activity: 518

Merit: 100

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 07, 2011, 04:02:01 PM

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 03:41:28 PM

Not my tool, so no idea how to get at the data... but changing the wording on the page to something along the lines of "your reward will be placed in the payout queue once it crosses the threshold" could be a start, and maybe followed by "click here for an estimate of the payment progress".

I'd recommend "This amount will be eligible for payout to you when it reaches approximately 0.33554432 BTC or after one week of inactivity. Eligible payouts are sent 50 BTC at a time when the pool finds a block, oldest balance first.

"This amount will be eligible for payout to you when it reaches [approximately] 0.33554432 BTC or after one week of inactivity. If the total of eligible rewards exceeds 50BTC payouts will be sent 50BTC at a time, as blocks are found by the pool, with oldest balances paid first."

I think that's the most informative/concise wording I can come up with. Also, does it need "approximately" when the amount is specified to eight decimals...?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 03:41:28 PM

Not my tool, so no idea how to get at the data... but changing the wording on the page to something along the lines of "your reward will be placed in the payout queue once it crosses the threshold" could be a start, and maybe followed by "click here for an estimate of the payment progress".

I'd recommend "This amount will be eligible for payout to you when it reaches approximately 0.33554432 BTC or after one week of inactivity. Eligible payouts are sent 50 BTC at a time when the pool finds a block, oldest balance first.

anodyne

full member

Activity: 518

Merit: 100

Quote from: Artefact2 on August 07, 2011, 01:47:53 PM

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 08:18:52 AM

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

Nice explanation. If your tool generates a computer-readable dump somewhere on the disk, I could read it and show an estimate "you should be paid in X blocks" (and linking to your page of course) instead of the misleading explanation. But then again, it would be all the more upsetting because it's just an estimate. What do you think?

Not my tool, so no idea how to get at the data... but changing the wording on the page to something along the lines of "your reward will be placed in the payout queue once it crosses the threshold" could be a start, and maybe followed by "click here for an estimate of the payment progress".

I think the wiki could use a few lines on the limitations of the generation payout system as well, for easy linkage. Maybe I'll take care of that tomorrow.

Artefact2

full member

Activity: 123

Merit: 100

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 08:18:52 AM

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

Nice explanation. If your tool generates a computer-readable dump somewhere on the disk, I could read it and show an estimate "you should be paid in X blocks" (and linking to your page of course) instead of the misleading explanation. But then again, it would be all the more upsetting because it's just an estimate. What do you think?

bcforum

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: anodyne on August 07, 2011, 08:18:52 AM

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

Thanks Anodyne!

anodyne

full member

Activity: 518

Merit: 100

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

bcforum

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

A tad more explanation here would be rather useful.

Currently, I see an eligius stat page that says:

Code:

Unpaid reward : BTC
This is the reward you earned by contributing to the previous blocks. This amount will be paid to you when it reaches approximately 0.33554432 BTC or after one week of inactivity, when the pool finds a block.

and that is a little unnerving. What this behaviour documented
somewhere ?

That has always been the case, and previously the payment went out a block or two after the threshold was crossed.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thought I'd ask before I take my business to another
pool.

Because of the lack of response from Luke-jr, and the rather flippant answer from Artefact2 I have moved to another pool until Eligius's payments catch up.

Artefact2

full member

Activity: 123

Merit: 100

Quote from: bcforum on August 06, 2011, 11:58:44 AM

Is the payout system broken? I haven't received a payout for the last five blocks (last three over the payout threshold)?

Short answer: yes, but don't worry, it's by design.

bcforum

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Is the payout system broken? I haven't received a payout for the last five blocks (last three over the payout threshold)?

Jack of Diamonds

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Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: DiabloD3 on August 05, 2011, 12:29:33 PM

Quote from: Schleicher on August 05, 2011, 12:23:59 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 04:39:05 PM

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Am I the only one seeing squares here?

We all see it. Unicode fonts typically don't contain the official symbols for meth and cocaine.

That's what I see.

DiabloD3

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

DiabloMiner author

Quote from: Schleicher on August 05, 2011, 12:23:59 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on August 04, 2011, 04:39:05 PM

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Am I the only one seeing squares here?

We all see it. Unicode fonts typically don't contain the official symbols for meth and cocaine.

Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 186. (Read 458255 times)