Topic: Pay discrimination - page 6. (Read 1437 times)

No matter how many big officers or big engineers there are in an organization, work has to be done through workers. The big officials will only give directions and maybe do some experiments to make an establishment but from the beginning to the end the work is done by the hands of the workers while the wages of the workers are very low. In various construction works, some types of caps are given to the workers and based on that cap, it is determined who will work more and who will get more salary. There are some people who overcharge the workers just to see if the workers have done the job properly. Every country needs professional people. If everyone is a doctor engineer but your house will not be built so workers must be respected and paid what they deserve.

The person with the most control of workers gets the most pay, in the sweatshop job scheme. For instance, in the construction business, the contractor gets higher pay than the workers who install rods, concretes and lay bricks. The same contractor earns more than most people in white-collar jobs, but because he's the only one doing the job of a contractor his pay is meant to be very big. While those doing the menial labor are quite many their pay will be reduced so that each worker can be paid according to his level in the contraction business. When the building was done and dusted and the owner decided to set up a hotel, he hired people to work in the hotel, and the pay would be according to the levels of employees. The manager would be paid more than the cleaners, receptionists, waiters, etc. Moving forward, if the team of employees does a great job and generates more money for the hotel, their pay rate will be increased.

And on the long run, the hotel employees get more pay than those who built the hotel, the contractors, and his team. Why? the owner of the building has a limited budget and if not managed the whole building may not get completed. After the work has been done and the builders are gone, the hotels or building begins to generate money. The pay of these employees now depends on the rate of money the hotel generates. If it generates a lesser amount, the hotel would pay less, and vice versa. One would wonder why a manager who doesn't do much work has a higher pay rate, but they fail to understand that the most tedious work is mental and emotional work. The work that deals with strength moving to and fro to serve people sounds to many as hard work, but from experience managing people is more strenuous. Complaints from customers, employees, boards, CEO, go to the manager, and if he doesn't implement critical thinking the hotel can fail. So, I'd conclude that people get paid according to how effective the service they render is in generating money for the business or company.

It is normal that a worker's salary and allowances will be different from other workers according to the job. If two people do the same job one has 10 years of experience in that job and the other is new then if we are asked to choose one of the two then we will blindly choose the person with 10 years of experience. Or if two people are given an opportunity to choose and if the salary and allowances of the two are differentiated then surely the one with 10 years of experience will get higher salary. Multiple workers work on a project, although the term worker sounds the same, some workers are distinguished based on experience and skills. While some workers are paid on the normal scale, some workers are given higher pay and benefits for their skill and experience in the job.

I think it depends on the type of job, as there might be white-collar jobs who doesn't require too much thinking and there are also blue-collar jobs who doesn't require too much physical effort. It's only sad that there are companies or employer who are underpaying their workers even if they know that the scope of the job is not easy. Not all workers has the guts to switch jobs when this circumstances occurs, so they just accept it and keep on working till their contract ends.

Those you said who underestimates the blue-collar jobs or it's workers are funny, or insane. We can only ignore these types of people. A person who can think properly, will never do that and they can even lend a help, either physically or financially.

I'm not saying that, what I am saying is about upskilling. Like having various skills where we can use to survive if ever the other skill and job we're having is hit by correction.

It's more of a preparation because we did saw how the pandemic changed everything and shown everyone what's possible.

Yeah, I know that.

But with this innovation, I believe that there's also going to be a production of newer jobs. Though we can't skip that it's a sad thing to see.

I have absolutely no idea where you live, but I think you and I not live anywhere even remotely the same. Blue collar jobs here do get paid a lot, as long as its skilled labor, its the unskilled labor for blue collar jobs that get paid less, and that is because its unskilled, meaning you can fire any person and hire any other person and there won't be a drop in productivity more than maybe 3 days. Whereas, a plumber, an electrician, a wood worker or anything like that, which requires years to master, is still a blue collar job and gets paid way more than a white collar worker unless that white collar worker is a CEO or something. That is why if you want to go blue, always go with skilled.

This world is sometimes cruel to the weak and uneducated – but they should not be compared. The correlation between the two is mutual need – so I think the root of the problem is a lack of gratitude.

I find that many educated people who work in government agencies are valued for the suits they wear and their knowledge – while construction workers are valued for their skills. If both do not receive fair respect in society, then a person really does not know how to respect himself.

The government who allows this pay discrimination might not actually know what it felt on part of the blue collars unless if they were in the shoes of these skilled workers and perform their jobs. That's the only time they'll get realized and make up their senses that these kind of people should gain more respect and appreciation, and should be given higher wages instead because their tasks are not easy and demands more of their force and energy.

However, I'm not saying to disregard these white collars but I just hope there will be just and fair wages for everyone. That's the only way in order for these blue collars to develop more motivation to work and perform their jobs wholeheartedly.

That's only if you generalize. I can tell you how I see it.

Skilled tradesmen who work for other people, like mechanics, plumbers, earn low wages, but the same people working for themselves can easily 2x or even 3x.
I know an electrician who works for a company part time and also gets side jobs. A side job for a private contractor pays twice his hourly wage at a company, but he's afraid to quit the company because it's easy money. He doesn't have to advertise, he knows he'll get paid and a contractor can cheat him. Sometimes you have to take these people to court and it takes time and money... That's why many tradesmen choose job security with low wage over high wage but more stress. Still, they have a choice and could make much more money.

A teacher at school here earns 1/3 of what a private tutor does. Any teacher can be a private tutor, there's a lot of job offers, but you have to drive to clients, face complaints and they're watching you, so you can't slack or be late. You call in sick, you don't get paid, but a school will pay you even when you're on leave.

I agree. Society has made it okay to treat before who are economically below us in any way we want and it should not be so. It's one thing for a person to earn very little and another thing to remind the person about it every time. It's the world we live in. Some people do that to feel better about themselves.
I don't believe it's the degree that makes them feel superior. I feel it's who they are. If they were in a better socioeconomic position without a college degree they'll still see themselves as superior. This has become a normal thing in the world so talking about it makes it look like you're exaggerating things but that's just how it is.

If you say there is pay discrimination then its not the fact, a contractor earn more than someone who goes to an office job and their pay depends on their actual skills not just hard work because if it can be done by anyone but it only need more physical effort then work force will be imported from third world country to do the same jobs for portions of current pay.

Well, I don't like the idea of people being discriminated against, whether of their skin colour or of their work structure. I believe everyone should be treated with dignity and respect. However, I don't believe those who do menial jobs should be paid as much as their counterparts who are skilled. No, definitely. It costs money to acquire skills and knowledge and those who pay to acquire such aren't fools. They know what they stand to gain in future and that's why they're acquiring them. Ideas run this world, not strength. In the past we were given to believe that hard work paid but we know now that it isn't true. Smart work pays.

I think that the education system is responsible for these discrimination, because more value are given to the so called educated people in the society. These is why a university certificate guarantees a better wage than work experience, where someone who is thought theory in the school will be boss to someone who has practical experience in the work field. Meanwhile if the two people were to switch places, the person who has practical experience might function in management level, but the one who is thought mainly the theoretical aspect can not function uptimaly in the practical aspect of what he learned inside the four walls of a classroom.

Although times are changing and the need for manual labor is diminishing, with the advent of modern machineries, robots and A1 technologies to take over manual tasks and jobs. There's a need for people to be more proactive and innovative in building themselves up to standards that will elevate them to be relevant in this modern age.

Well it is not because of manpower alone. Knowledge with higher positions do usually cost more than with studying skill based jobs. Will this ever change? Depends on the demand. There are countries wherein Blue collar jobs are being paid higher than with what's usual. It also depends on the economy of a country on which would be more appreciated and be more in demand. With corporate jobs, they generate more money which enables them to be paid higher as well, does makes sense. Life simply works in such way and life was never fair. You need to stand out in order to be appreciated in any industry. If you have the same set of skills as with the majority then how come you'd be paid with huge amount.

Try to answer the question: the one you call a “white collar” has an education—a higher education. Can he do the work of a laborer? Waiter, taxi driver, builder? Yes, sure. You can learn this in a couple of days.
The question is, can someone who works as a waiter create a project, perform an operation, or teach a child higher mathematics?
Do you feel the difference? Hence, ask yourself why people with higher education get paid more. I think the answer is obvious.

That is true, they think that they're superior than those that didn't finish their studies. But look at the skill of those people that don't have degree.
They're the ones that we mostly need with all of our stuff and they're just one call away to help us.
Today, it's not just enough that you finish studies but also to have more skills in life including survival skills.

Absolutely. Skilled labors must be paid more than unskilled ones and in many cases more than "white collars", but isn't that's what's happening in the world?  Who's paying white collars more because they are "mentally drained out"? You are paid according to what profit your work brings to the company, not for how tired you are.


People in what kind of shithole treat them disrespectfully? Just move, man. In most of the world, no one treats workers disrespectfully.

Sad reality but majority of the countries are adopting that kind of outlook or mentality. Most likely, since these skilled workers are undergraduate and are not degree holders so they only get minimum wage payout while those having high positions in a company will receive higher payouts most likely because of their higher educational achievement. The higher their educational attainment is, the bigger demand they get from their companies.

To be honest, if only all the countries government are discouraged from having pay discrimination, then there will be no hungry and homeless families around. People will work hard because the harder they do their jobs, the bigger pay they will get.

Working with the results of thought (intelligence and insight) will indeed be more appreciated and paid more. Because to be able to have broad insight and high intelligence requires a lot of sacrifice of energy, money and time. For example engineers and professors. It is not easy for them to get a lot of insight and many degrees from universities and so on. So it is not surprising that if they work they will get higher pay than work that requires using muscles. Because to be able to build a skyscraper requires special skills from engineers in the field of building architecture and concrete stone construction or similar. And I am sure that people who do not learn about these scientific disciplines will not be able to make architecture like architecture makes. So that their manual workers only work according to the drawings that are in their hands.

But I personally also think that the salary gap is too big. Although I agree that people who work with intelligence should be more appreciated. But I also hope that those who work with muscles and have to fight dangers that threaten their lives (construction workers) must also be respected. Currently, many construction workers do not even have insurance coverage from their construction company. This is different from office workers who have more guarantees from their companies such as various insurances such as health insurance and so on. So even though the salary may not be the same. But I think all types of workers should still have the same thing in terms of benefits and guarantees such as health insurance and so on. Because without hard workers, even hard thinkers will still be useless. Because everyone needs each other.

The problem is that business pays for results and efficiency. And business is absolutely not interested in how tired you are, how much you sweat, it is interested in what the financial result of your work is. "White collar workers" are those who create tomorrow and solve issues of the future. Blue collar workers are those who implement today's tasks.
Moreover, blue collar workers also have a strong gradation, and often their salaries are very high. But this also requires knowledge, experience, and ingenuity.
From personal experience: the same electrician. When I bought a new apartment, I was preparing a renovation project. And one of the issues is the installation of the electrical network. Even for such “projects”, I always hold something like a tender. And this time too. There were 3 proposals, with calculations and estimates. The choice fell on the most expensive of the 3. Doesn't sound logical? But you don't know the details yet
It was this team that proposed the deadlines I needed, and also showed an absolutely correct understanding of what needs to be done, taking into account all types of equipment that will be installed, possible practical risks and their solutions, the highest quality materials, taking into account the real power needs, as well as the optimal laying cable products throughout the apartment, taking into account all constructive and design nuances. One of the losers said - “bye, I did this for you so that it would be as cheap as possible, if you had said that you needed the highest QUALITY, I would have considered that too”
The last sentence is about experience and understanding of what the customer needs
So, the 2 people who did the project earned, if converted into a monthly equivalent, no less than a good programmer! And these are ordinary electricians. But with experience, knowledge and an excellent understanding of the customer’s needs.

And about philosophy - believe me, at least 70% of people want to earn more, but... don’t want to do anything for it. They just want to be paid more... Therefore, for many, the transition from blue collar to white collar is simply not feasible. How impossible it is to increase income at your level. And it is precisely because of laziness and fear of difficulties that some people choose the “quiet” but rather low-paid civil service, and at the same time complain all their lives about the low salary.

Total: what is described by the author of the topic is NORMAL!