Topic: Poker talk - Specifically Hold'em - Hands and or strategy - page 3. (Read 4766 times)

i did get that impression but wasn't totally sure since somebody was added to the table on the second hand. it was one of the things (combined with the minraise from early position) that made me wonder if this was his standard open or the old "minraise with monsters to get callers" type thing. i've noticed some players still do this. my standard open is definitely bigger, especially from UTG or UTG+1.

Thanks.
You know that Ace-rag is a cornerstone of my range 
In all seriousness the call was 1 BB into a pot of 5.5 or so pre. BB defend for me when I'm deepstacked is definitely any Ax. The call on the flop is standard for me in that spot as well. I think it's common that people c-bet almost 100% if they were pre-flop aggressor. The turn call was 50/50 for me, but the price was still good imo. Looking back on it it's clear he was trying to keep it cheap and keep me along with my weak A or draw. With the straightdraw and flush draw getting there I was beginning to consider turning my hand into a bluff on the river, by leading out. In the end I chickened out, with any Q making a straight as well.

Odds are this guy would never have let go his flopped set anyways so opting out of the bluff was probably a good call. I'm glad he checked it back as I would have folded to any bet on the river.

I know I'm bad at playing the blocker game in my head so when I have a certain pair I will give less credit to others having it. Like most things in poker sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong but overall I think it's been +EV. I just balance it by keeping pots smaller with check-calls, and if it gets to pricey then I have to walk away.

2BB open seemed to be his standard. I've noticed that most people aren't varying their sizing at all. I was the same, but have picked a few different spots to vary it. ACR actually makes it more difficult for me because it will almost never let me type in 2.3BB for a betsize. You'll notice he did the same 2BB open in the next hand. I left this part out from the information to see if anyone would pick up on the seats. 1 orbit apart this guy flopped a set of Aces, and I was in a spot that put me in his crosshairs each time. Crazy.
You know what all I could do was laugh at this, probably because I actually had a very healthy stack leftover. It was actually a + in my book as I didn't wind up with a toxic mindset immediately afterwards. Chatted with the guy for a few minutes, he figured I had hit a 2, and couldn't believe the cooler himself.

Will do. These hands weren't so much a review of spots themselves just a snippit of the highs and lows in this deeprun I made. The last few times I made a FT or close were very "slow" in terms of play. A lot of folding and waiting from a shortstack position. I didn't give much info prior to, but this is more a mindset review if anything. In the past I've definitely tilted off more than my fair share of potential finishes after a beat like this. Instead I kept my shit together and just waited for the next spot - the 3rd hand.

I do have a few spots in mind that I want some opinions on, I just haven't run into them lately. I like the idea of explaining my thinking prior to any input and will do that the next time I bring a hand in. On that note, now that I've told everyone this 1st 2 hands were the same guy. When I made the losing call boat over boat, I honestly sat there and said "no way this guy has AA again, 88 or 22 and I'm just unlucky".

^ ^  It's better if you post your hands without showing the results to avoid results based thinking and to make the analysis as objective as possible.  You can post the results later anyway.

And it would help if you share your thought process with each hand.

congrats on the deep run!


ace-rag gonna ace-rag. off suit at that.

that early position 2x RFI smells like a big hand, no? or was this guy particularly active?


not much to say, tough beat. i'd have done the same.

Always glad to repay the favor.
They make it hard to stay away, but I don't even consider it until I hear about a big one. I'm set up on 3 sites now so I can easily choose to stay away.

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That sums it up perfectly. It's funny how the same can be said when things start going really well.

The last part is something I've been thinking on a lot lately. For a while after my first big bink on Low Stakes I was able to hold my own but looking back my graph was on a steady decline. There was a lot of bad plays and learning going on in that time, so not all bad. Then came bad decisions ... very late reg, poor re-entry spots, and just some bad bankroll management. Then there was the inevitable poker variance that was in there as well, a double edged sword so to speak.

The run-bad was real at times, and really took the forefront. There were some massive sun runs at the same time, but they generally get forgotten. In the end the variance helped me rebuild, from 0 essentially. I had burned myself down to about break even. The winnings I had on SWC was being transferred to ACR, as they had a better schedule for me. Then came a few binks, SWC has been a really good field overall for me with their new schedule, not to mention our Forum Series. Everything really turned around, the bankroll was rebuilding and I'm building up consistency for cashing. ACR has mostly been min cashes or Top 20, which has been nice but was still break even or losing in the long run. It was definitely still frustrating as it just seemed something I couldn't fix.

Brings me to last night. Not a proud moment but I was on a typical schedule as the wife let me start early for fathers day.  
Pretty much standard on my second bullet in a low stakes and down 2 in a micro. Just couldn't gain traction until I ran hot and was primed for a solid finish. Got coolered 2 hands in a row with pocketpairs and I wound up out 26 off the money. I probably could have gotten away from the first one and was likely tilted going into the second one. Got a little frustrated looked over the schedule and made the choice as it was early, to buy-in to tournament more in-line with the SWC buy-ins I've been playing. Not a great idea nor advice to anyone to lose and go up in stakes. Probably more of a chasing a loss than anything.
I still had a week or 2 worth of buy-ins but wasn't sure if ACR was going to be a field I kept playing in. So while this wasn't just me punting off a bigger buy-in I wasn't going to be heartbroken if I ran down my ACR funds quicker this way.

Well turns out I'll be sticking around. I didn't take the whole thing down but it was close. Played a solid game and took 5th overall, for my highest score by a few bucks. This last one actually has me with a full bankroll, that I have won - 95% of apart from my initial deposit. This is spread across SWC ACR and GGpoker(small amount but have been somewhat successful on their lowsakes tournaments)

Anyway just thought I would share that as it was sort of a big deal and hit me this morning. Now the hard part of keeping it up and growing it. Anyways here are a couple hands from last night, this could have easily ended my night. There were a lot of ups and downs but nothing that I think was a real head scratcher or anything. The first 2 hands are one orbit apart. Apart from all the ups and downs the craziest thing happened the PC I was on froze on th efinal table - I went scrambling in the dark searching for my laptop so fast lol, only tripped over 2 things.

Level 20 (1000.00/2000.00) -8-max Seat 1: UTG +1 (23889.00) Seat 2: Villain (65894.00) Seat 3: LJ (65232.00) Seat 4: HJ (28798.00) Seat 5: BTN (51523.00) Seat 6: SB (18001.00) Seat 8: Hero BB (109778.00) Vilain UTG+1 raises 4000.00 to 4000.00 Hero BB calls 2000.00 *** FLOP *** [Ac Jh 2h] pot 10750.00 Hero BB checks Villain -  bets 2000.00 Hero calls 2000.00 *** TURN *** [Ac Jh 2h] [Th] 14750.00 Hero checks Vilain bets 5000.00 Hero calls 5000.00 *** RIVER *** [Ac Jh 2h Th] [Kc] 4750.00                       Checks through *** SHOW DOWN *** Main pot 24750.00 Hero shows [6h Ad] Villain shows [Ah As]

Level 21 (1200.00/2400.00) 8-max Seat Seat 1: BB (50980.00) Seat 2: UTG+1 Villain (74544.00) Seat 3: UTG+2 (63432.00) Seat 4: LJ (14798.00) Seat 5: HJ (84073.00) Seat 6: CO (104614.00) Seat 7: BB (113218.00) Seat 8: Hero SB (152568.00) [6c 6d] Villain UTG+1 raises 4800.00 to 4800.00 Hero SB calls 3600.00 Villain 2 BB calls 2400.00 *** FLOP *** [6s Ac 2h] Pot 16800.00 Checks through *** TURN *** [6s Ac 2h] [2s] Pot 16800.00 Hero checks Villain-2 bets 3850.00 Villain-1 calls Hero raises to 11040.00 Villain-2 folds Villai-1 calls *** RIVER *** [6s Ac 2h 2s] [8d] Pot 42730.00 Hero bets 31200.00 Villain-1 raises all-in Hero calls 27204.00 *** SHOW DOWN *** Pot 159538.00 Villain-1 shows [Ah Ad] Hero shows [6c 6d]

Level 22 (1400.00/2800.00)- 8-max Seat 1: BTN (46830.00) Seat 2: SB (122282.00) Seat 3: BB (63432.00) Seat 4: UTG+1 (42661.00) is sitting out Seat 6: UTG+2 (159348.00) Seat 7: LJ - Villain (79568.00) Seat 8: HJ - Hero (90524.00) [9d 9c] Villain UTG+1 raises to 5600.00 Hero 3-bet to 18200.00 Villain calls *** FLOP *** [3d 9s 6d] Pot 43050.00 Villain checks Hero bets 8680.00 Villain jams to 61018.00 and is all-in Hero calls 52338.00 *** TURN *** [3d 9s 6d] [Kc] Main pot 165086.00 *** RIVER *** [3d 9s 6d Kc] [8c] Main pot 165086.00 *** SHOW DOWN *** Pot 165086.00 Villain shows [6s As] Hero shows [9d 9c]

thanks, i appreciate your insight.

re the "will you call a jam" question---great point. that's what bothered me so much about this hand. i had sorta implicitly decided when i called on the turn that i would stack off if the river wasn't super wet (9, J, A....maybe spade). yet i reversed on that and decided to fold anyway. afterwards i felt like i was throwing away chips, which is why i brought up the hand.

2-pair is such a bitch sometimes. tough spot, as you said.


yeah i don't play it seriously, just go for a quick double/triple up (in which case it might be close to a $10 buy-in value for the 0.04 BTC freeroll) or bust.


several times i've tried to custom bet and minbet instead, with terrible consequences. i've also timed out trying to bet. it's just horrible UI.


+1, i dunno if they understand that. the software is so horrible that no remotely serious player wants to pay value to play there. they have to pay us with overlays.


sounds like it. fucking poker!

Call river imo.  You gotta go with the hand as played being short and him being at the bu with most likely with a wider range than usual.  I think his shove represents either the stone cold nuts or complete air here.

It really feel like AA to me. I had to double check the numbers but their sizing lined up fairly well to get this to a pot-size bet left on the river. Range wise I have
9Ts+,J9s+ - Suited connectors and 1 gappers. Could make a better 2 pair or possible straight. More likely to create a  straight and/or flush draw imo.
K9s+, Single pair/2 pair holdings would have had strong draws to continue betting
ATo+, KJo+, JTo+ Flopped straight possibly, strong pairs, some 2 pair combos, and missed draws
44,TT+ - Flopped sets, pairs with draws

Most of the suited combos that don't improve on the turn would likely give up, apart from spades. If they picked up an open ended straight draw they would likely continue to barrel.

This might be flawed but I was just trying to figure out what they might have shown up with and carried forward on. They might have had some out there AX of spades that turned nutflush draw and then jammed the bluff in the end. C-bets on the flop are hard to use as an indicator. I find a lot of flop c-bets are just a straight bluff especially when the board smashes the perceived range.

Nothing wrong with folding out there. It's a tough spot and you could have been behind from the Flop. I've been there where i improve on the turn and get pumped only to realize I was drawing dead on the turn   . Such is life, one take away would be on the turn, ask yourself all things being equal on the river, will you call a jam. Given pot size and SPR. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to but it saves you a bit of the rushed process on the river online MTT's create.
I dislike playing there quite a bit. Samecamp as yourself, but not positive a freeroll is worth it lol. I find myself getting frustrated just trying to use it, mostly the betting is my biggest issue. I can get past everything else really. It's fine if you only ever want to use the standard bets they give you but the option of 2,3,4 BB pr-flop is just stupid. I've timed out in the past just trying to type in a custom bet. I've also accidentally jammed my stack in  

I like that they offer the forum such opportunities and will continue to support those events, and offer suggestions. I just don't think they are listening or at least not mentioning it. Problem is they won't improve the traffic if they don't improve the software first.

Sunday was a big Dud. I went to showdown numerous times and was just behind, in a lot of spots. Most I was ahead until the river. It was just a bad high variance day, with let's say unexpected and questionable hands showing up at times. For example I 3-bet pre against LJ from the BTN, they called with J8 suited. I had TT I believe and they revered a J, after calling down 2 streets, The board was dry and had a K high flop, no draws for them.

I busted out at 25 min mark... I still think this was a decent spot to bluff jam the river but could be wrong. Getting fuzzy on it but I missed with everything. The board by the river has made flush and straight draws and paired 8's. I bet the Flop spade draw is there, A Q 8,(2 spades) Ts, 8 - board has

Iirc I bet 2 streets, smaller on the flop, then larger on the turn. I then jammed river. I essentially figured they had a strong pair maybe 2. It seemed like a spot I could push them off and might have been able to if they didn't have A8 - So i was out. Second boat I ran into that made it on the turn.

The big BTC, was better but similar result. Gameplay there really was hot and then cold. Lost a lot early with AK, AKs - just not getting there, 3-bets getting no respect or running into monster hands. I went out in a spot where I had TT, called from BTN or SB against UTG+2. Board flops 8, 7, 5(I think), I c-bet they jam. I have them covered and it's 18 BB to call for a pot of 43BB. I call they have AA, roll around a few hands and I'm down to 5 BB, jam Q5s SB VS. BB, BB has AA.

Just wasn't my day. It was really disappointing as there was so much on the table. I don't think I could have done much differently. Running into AA there, yeah I though maybe they have JJ+, but they could also have had a straight draw pair on the board, maybe 99 I guess I could have played much more passively in the Big BTC with AK, but that seems wrong to adjust my play solely because of the stakes. Probably should have though as I've noticed SWC regs probably don't distinguish much between a 1K or 10K buy-in.

i tanked for a while and ended up folding, which has been bugging me for a while. he mucked it and in hindsight i really would have liked to know.

i agree that i probably gave him too much credit, and i also wonder if i should have gotten active on the turn. i just had a really tough time figuring out range and odds in the moment. given the weak flop bet, it felt more like a slow played KQ or set that got scared of draws on the turn than AK, but i agree TPTK is in there.

in retrospect, what exact range do you put him on, on the river?


thanks. i can't complain with 12th given the insanely fast blind structure. big stacks bullying like crazy, short stacks winning shoves for tournament lives over and over. it was a very tough game near/after the bubble.

i really hate their software and blind structures. the huge overlay made it worth it, but even if they had more traffic, big freerolls and overlays are all i'm interested in at sportsbet. i really hope they overhaul their poker room.

was sunday a dud for you? otherwise i assume you would have reported back with some good news....

I think you are good here more often than not. Villain would likely play AK the same way. These spots are tough, as there really isn't anyway to discern if they flopped a set or Top Top, even though you block some of those combos. BTN has a very wide range for RFI, so they could have flopped open-ended and missed or turned the straight, AJ more likely than J9. While you have to be aware of those, we can't be scared of them. It will suck to call and see a set or a straight, it's always on my mind when I have 2-pair and is devastating.

Personally I would call it down. If it's a set or a turned straight it's just unlucky but with you playing it passively they may think they can push you off a weak single pairholding. A blocker bet on the turn might have been a good play to evaluate strength. I've been working on pot control so it's not always ideal to take the lead and volunteer chips to the pot but a flat call from them let's you set the price and gives you some insight, likewise if they re-raise.

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Congrats on that solid finish yesterday.

here is a spot i ran into yesterday, relatively early in a small buy-in MTT:


i hated playing this passively OOP and the T on the turn was such a troll since it made AJ and J9 straights.

how often does villain have a straight, KQ, or set? i felt like i was inviting him to bluff the river (missed straight/flush draws or weak pairs)......i'm just not sure about this spot.

That's shitty, I thought about that after mentioning it. I didn't have to KYC, that's not to say they wouldn't hit me up with a verification of some sorts down the road. I sort of breezed through it so not sure if I even had to give them my address. Eitehr way they didn't ask for supporting documents but might decide to when I go to withdraw.

What sort of jogged my memory to try GGpoker was this thread about a skin of them. I'm not to familiar with skins in poker or how they work but here's the thread. ♠️ 7XL - the largest poker & casino network in the world 100% cash back! I thought for some reason I couldn't deposit BTC directly to GGpoker so I was humming and hawing about this. It's just sort of out of my depth but it was apparently a way to open up GGpoker to the rest of the world. Might be worth a read.
Yeah that's the one. I've also played the nightly re-buy once. My one gripe on SWC is that their tournaments are lacking a bit on details. For instance at no point was I sure what amount of chips I was getting for the rebuy. I just made the assumption it was going to cost a buy-in and would probably be 5K chips.

Tonight I'm going to try and tackle the Thursday Double or whatever it's called. 2 tourneys at the same time, best finish across both get's an additional prize. Then there is a progressive for someone who wins both at the same time.

ah, classic.


did you have to KYC? no USA players allowed.


that's pretty standard structure for a rebuy tourney. you talking about the nightly seal battle?

Ooops no I meant the flop was 23Q - They rivered a straight.
Yeah the beat shouldn't sting anymore than losing to AJ or KQ, regardless of it being a vastly weaker hand. I was more pissed as it switched tables right away and I couldn't leave a note in case I see them around again. Just to be aware.

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Last night I took a look at GGpoker. Heard okay things and wanted to try it out, I can say this much. I've gotten used to the large guarantees on ACR. I was checking out their schedule and I'll try out a few tournaments in the next couple days to see what the field is like. Not positive I'll stick around but who knows. It does feel nice to have a few options, I think SWC is going to be in the regular rotation for a while. Gotta dig a little deeper but last nights tournament was essentially a 3X buy-in by the time late reg ends.

It was weird, you can make it a double rebuy from the start, then an add-on at end of late reg. 1500 starting stack and 5000 add-on.

I'll consider it research for the field when I get into that Big BTC on SWC.  

i'm assuming you're saying they hit 2 pair on the river? did you mean 56o?

that's the tough thing about tournaments. the odds don't care about how deep you are or the time invested. aggressive players with live cards are dangerous. even as played you're not much better than 60/40 there. when you can get it in vs Ax it's pretty nice, but no matter how you look at it, deep runs/strong finishes require running good on flips.


it's tough to find the perfect balance. i agree that the old 10bb threshold for shoving is often premature, but there is a lot of room between 10 and 2.6.

If it could have been avoided it would have. This late in I think BB was around 50K, and hitting 2.6BB was just after blinds increased. I really used to get jammy at 10BB, but have gotten more comfortable with waiting until 6 or 7 BB before I really start to feel the pressure. I definitely wasn't mucking anything that was worth playing while I still had some fold equity. It was just more of an accepting of my fate should I remain card dead.
Yes the MTT's have been a bit of a bitch. Great results in some regards mostly SWC, which I believe I will keep playing more often. Then others where I just can't do anything but shake my head.

Last night I flipped for a stack, this was mostly player dependent. Was a pretty dead tournament for a few levels after I reg'd and it was level 11 or 12. I've noticed the villain do some weird shit, limping and slowplaying medium and strong hands and jamming stacks in other times flop and turn. They are UTG+1, I am BTN. My stack is 23 BB, they have 29 BB

Villain opens 2.25 BB folds around
Hero 3-bet to 7.1 BB
They Jam. I elect to call off with AQ. I figure they might have a weak pocket pair, suited Ax. Could be a strong pair but like I said they play these in a trappy fashion from what I've seen.

They show 46 off....  board runs out 26Q ? 5   It was a rainbow flop and can't recall the turn but that F'n river 5. Just annoyed about it is all. I had the right read on the player, strong enough hand against their range if you want to call it that.

The sting was tempered as I took 4th in the SWC Nightly Seal Battle(I think) just before. Might have shipped it if not for a hand that had me with Trip Q's 9 kicker, losing to Trip Q's 10 kicker. The fact I didn't go broke was a victory in itself.

Not going to lie. You are probably one of th emost patient players in our series imo. It's something I've noticed and tried to integrate into my game to some degree.

Oh yeah for sure. Blinding out isn't my regular strategy. It's just something that is a possibility for anyone that has ranges they will stick to. I would have loved to have had any number of hands in the scenario you describe. I've also been in the position where I have 4 or 5 playable hands in an orbit with a 20 BB stack, and get whittled down by playing the hands I should and missing flops. All just part of the game, sometimes there is nothing you can do.
If you have an interest in poker, we play a forum series we are talking about the next one here. Bitcointalk Poker Series format discussion - Let's keep them all in one place.

if you have less than 20 bb you have to play aggressively or take risks, of course with observation too.
for example there are 9 players at the table and 6 people fold then you are the seventh person to take action, you can do all in or raise to 10 bb.
because you need more chips to last longer.

It's a good strategy, in my opinion, but unfortunately sometimes I don't have the strength to use it. Often I start worrying when I have less than 10 BB, start playing more aggressively, and in the vast majority of cases it ends badly. Even though I remember how I leddered really good multiple times just because I was patient and keeping calm, I fail at it sometimes.

2.6bbs, damn! i am rarely blinding all the way down to there. at that point you're just playing for the next payout ladder. i think it's more optimal to keep playing for #1 even if it means shoving weaker, earlier. it retains more fold equity too. at 4-6bbs my range is fairly wide for this reason.

not a bad result anyhow considering the lack of premium hands. realistically you gotta ride out hundreds of MTTs without shipping one sometimes.....

Nono folding is fine.  I mean it's def close with 31bb's left.  But could go either way.  It's around 20bb's that's when you really start getting stacks in a little lighter than usual.