[POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 15.

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Quote from: Reatim on July 06, 2023, 03:34:47 AM

If this is for Sports betting , Yes I will trust AI as they can make a best result in assessing who will win and what would be the possible scores comparing to our estimation and prediction.
but if this is a regular casino that I need to evaluate my opponents facial reaction and body movements?
then that will be other answers if could and also AI is design to beat humanities but this will take long to be happening .

This is a regular casino or a different casino that has a different system from the existing casinos because the use of AI in casinos will probably require something to work in casinos.

And if AI can provide valid data for sports betting, it will help us to know who is winning. And our desire to use AI is to win and not have to bother looking for data in selecting his team.

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If this is for Sports betting , Yes I will trust AI as they can make a best result in assessing who will win and what would be the possible scores comparing to our estimation and prediction.
but if this is a regular casino that I need to evaluate my opponents facial reaction and body movements?
then that will be other answers if could and also AI is design to beat humanities but this will take long to be happening .

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on July 05, 2023, 04:36:24 PM

~snip~
Well, I'm just saying this as a possible scenario of what can happen in the future, I think AI things are not developed yet, but in the future they will be, and if quantum computing isn't there, so when? comes out It won't be as advanced as many think, but in the not too distant future when Quantum Computing is a powerhouse along with AI, I think a Randomness-based algorithm like Provably Fair will be easy to read and predict its likely moves. with more ease, randomness is a pretty hard thing to predict, but for these advanced things in the future, it will be a piece of cake.

Well, I'm just saying that the sunsets will be like this and we can't Deny the future, how many thought that AI was just science fiction and that it wasn't going to come stomping like it is now, many believed that the future was not going to come close to something like that, but we already see that these things have come true, and what is missing is much more, it may be in a few years, but it will come, to be honest I thought that for this year things would be much more advanced, but so far they are using an AI that is in Beta mode , I am sure that in other Areas it is much more advanced , let's wait and see, we have to let ourselves be surprised.

Getting quantum random numbers is already old technology.

Back in 2020 Samsung release the Quantum A phone, with a quantum random number generation chipset inside.

Quote from: https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-a-quantum-1118992/

“When a user of Galaxy A Quantum sets biometric authentication with ‘SKT 5GX Quantum’ in the SK Pay app, you can see the message ‘SK Pay is protected with SKT 5GX Quantum’ at the top of the smartphone screen when using the app,” the Korean carrier explains, adding that online payments backed by quantum security are coming soon.

In 2021 they released a new version:

Quote from: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/13/22381321/samsung-galaxy-quantum-2-announced-qrng-cryptography-chip

Samsung and South Korean carrier SK Telecom have announced the Galaxy Quantum 2, Samsung’s second phone that features built-in quantum cryptography technology for increased security. It’s the follow-up to last year’s Galaxy A Quantum.

And in these 2 years more advances have been made. It's already years old tech.

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Quote from: slapper on June 19, 2023, 03:38:27 AM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on June 18, 2023, 04:15:16 PM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

~snip~

I have wondered something, as time goes by the AI has learned much more, and the most important thing is that the AI learns in hours to be an expert in anything, in the case of betting on casinos there is still a long way to go, but I don't know how they can do it so that I can be one step ahead of the casino systems knowing that the casino systems have the Provably Fair system and everything that entails to be able to beat it, I think that for now it is not possible, but in the future the AI with the help of quantum pc will not be difficult anymore, and that era may come soon, I always believed that quantum computer will be developed first before AI.

I feel the need to address an error in thinking here: the idea of besting casino systems, even with state-of-the-art AI and quantum computing, is presently just wishful thinking. Casino games, especially the "Provably Fair" ones, are built on statistics and chance. Their essence is randomness - this makes forecasting or swaying the outcomes pretty much a no-go.

Sure, advanced AI can master many things rapidly. But they play by the rules and stay within their coded limits. The idea that AI can outsmart the system defies the randomness and fairness at the heart of these games. While dreaming of AI and quantum tech tipping the scales in our favor sounds nice, it's vital to keep in mind the unpredictability and risk intrinsic to gambling.

Well, I'm just saying this as a possible scenario of what can happen in the future, I think AI things are not developed yet, but in the future they will be, and if quantum computing isn't there, so when? comes out It won't be as advanced as many think, but in the not too distant future when Quantum Computing is a powerhouse along with AI, I think a Randomness-based algorithm like Provably Fair will be easy to read and predict its likely moves. with more ease, randomness is a pretty hard thing to predict, but for these advanced things in the future, it will be a piece of cake.

Well, I'm just saying that the sunsets will be like this and we can't Deny the future, how many thought that AI was just science fiction and that it wasn't going to come stomping like it is now, many believed that the future was not going to come close to something like that, but we already see that these things have come true, and what is missing is much more, it may be in a few years, but it will come, to be honest I thought that for this year things would be much more advanced, but so far they are using an AI that is in Beta mode , I am sure that in other Areas it is much more advanced , let's wait and see, we have to let ourselves be surprised.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on July 04, 2023, 07:43:07 PM

~snip~
The issue is that those attempts to try to limit AI are never going to work, as people will always find a way around them, so as long as someone can get an edge over everyone else then there will always be an incentive for those people to remove those limitations.

And without a doubt there will be people out there which will use AI to try to beat the casinos, unfortunately for them the casinos will do the same, and most likely they will be the ones to come up on top.

I kinda think in a similar way, but thinking about history, you could say the same about nuclear war.

But we have managed so far to not start a global nuclear war, so I guess the same can be said about AI.

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Quote from: Blitzboy on July 04, 2023, 06:03:03 AM

OpenAI's openness enables for endless invention and enhancement, limited only by the user's creativity. OpenAI's base code has enabled many innovative and effective AI applications. Its wonderful to think of people or organizations improving this technology to solve big problems. It's like giving someone the keys to knowledge and seeing them discover new possibilities. AI, like any strong technology, may be abused. AI's potential losses in hazardous operations might be worrisome. However, it's development. As we progress, AI ethics need to be strengthened.

The issue is that those attempts to try to limit AI are never going to work, as people will always find a way around them, so as long as someone can get an edge over everyone else then there will always be an incentive for those people to remove those limitations.

And without a doubt there will be people out there which will use AI to try to beat the casinos, unfortunately for them the casinos will do the same, and most likely they will be the ones to come up on top.

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Quote from: Maslate on July 03, 2023, 01:25:46 PM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on June 27, 2023, 05:07:54 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on June 10, 2023, 09:56:11 PM

Quote from: len01 on June 08, 2023, 07:58:57 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

While those results happen from time to time it is not common and even casinos can suffer huge losses if someone was crazy enough to take a huge bet on favor of the underdog at the time.

So it is natural that even an AI will struggle to identify and accurately predict those results, still if given enough information about a particular sport and guiding the model in a very careful way I think it should be possible to produce an AI which could predict outcomes with enough accuracy to produce profits.

their profit margin is so high that losing once in a while wouldn't be a problem, probably.
even if they're losing millions, I'd expect online casinos to have an emergency reserve in cases of these issues.

That is expected because they cannot really afford to file a bankruptcy just because of that incident that a random person was just too crazy and bet on the heavy underdog with millions without knowing that the team will actually win and upsets the heavy favorite, I know it's not a first but it's just too awesome to read that kind of stories.

Anyway, the casino/platform surely have their own reserves for cases like that as it's not really everyday that they will have the favor because once in a while, they also know that there is really that person who is just too lucky on that certain day will have crazy bets just because of that factor.

Following that, it's a must for them to have that extra reserve to finance that win, else, they will ruin the business as the demands for paying that lucky gambler will chase them, I agree that casino understand that scenario or the possibility of that situation so they need make sure that the amount can be covered by the allocated amount for their financial expense.

Along the way, once they survive most of the time, it will be covered by those other gamblers who will lose that amount collected from different gamblers who use the services of the casino.

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Quote from: beerlover on July 04, 2023, 01:09:22 AM

Quote from: nullama on July 02, 2023, 02:38:27 AM

Quote from: OgNasty on June 27, 2023, 05:36:11 PM

I still haven't found anyone using AI like this but I'm sure people must be doing it. Is anyone aware of any reddit posts or other places that people may be discussing different prompts they are using to try and do this sort of gambling? I'm very tempted to do some sort of thread documenting the success of AI in gambling decisions, but so far I haven't found a good method to do so. Hopefully I get it figured out before the NBA season starts again. It would be cool to start doing some fun stuff with AI when that time rolls around again.

The thing is that, at least with OpenAI, the models are trained with old data, years old sometimes. So, you can't realistically use the ready models to ask for a prediction of a game that is happening soon.

The most important data, recent one, is not available in the model yet.

Maybe there are other models trained specifically to do this, including the latest results, and news, etc, but I haven't seen them yet. Maybe people are using them privately, which would make sense.

The most important criteria about "open"AI is that it's open source, well at least a lot of it. It means that you could build your own AI with a good foundation. A lot of people built a lot of AI products by simply getting the base code of openAI and then improved on it or shifted it to whatever they want. With that regard, we could have a company or just some people who will end up downloading that, and then they will end up doing something much better with it as well.

They could put all the information in there and they will do very well. I am not saying that it will be easy setup, but it will certainly be a good period for sure. I think it will be a sad moment to see when AI is used for risky stuff that may end up making you lose money, but it's still good to see it improve at least.

OpenAI's openness enables for endless invention and enhancement, limited only by the user's creativity. OpenAI's base code has enabled many innovative and effective AI applications. Its wonderful to think of people or organizations improving this technology to solve big problems. It's like giving someone the keys to knowledge and seeing them discover new possibilities. AI, like any strong technology, may be abused. AI's potential losses in hazardous operations might be worrisome. However, it's development. As we progress, AI ethics need to be strengthened.

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Quote from: nullama on July 02, 2023, 02:38:27 AM

Quote from: OgNasty on June 27, 2023, 05:36:11 PM

I still haven't found anyone using AI like this but I'm sure people must be doing it. Is anyone aware of any reddit posts or other places that people may be discussing different prompts they are using to try and do this sort of gambling? I'm very tempted to do some sort of thread documenting the success of AI in gambling decisions, but so far I haven't found a good method to do so. Hopefully I get it figured out before the NBA season starts again. It would be cool to start doing some fun stuff with AI when that time rolls around again.

The thing is that, at least with OpenAI, the models are trained with old data, years old sometimes. So, you can't realistically use the ready models to ask for a prediction of a game that is happening soon.

The most important data, recent one, is not available in the model yet.

Maybe there are other models trained specifically to do this, including the latest results, and news, etc, but I haven't seen them yet. Maybe people are using them privately, which would make sense.

The most important criteria about "open"AI is that it's open source, well at least a lot of it. It means that you could build your own AI with a good foundation. A lot of people built a lot of AI products by simply getting the base code of openAI and then improved on it or shifted it to whatever they want. With that regard, we could have a company or just some people who will end up downloading that, and then they will end up doing something much better with it as well.

They could put all the information in there and they will do very well. I am not saying that it will be easy setup, but it will certainly be a good period for sure. I think it will be a sad moment to see when AI is used for risky stuff that may end up making you lose money, but it's still good to see it improve at least.

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Quote from: noormcs5 on July 03, 2023, 06:49:39 PM

Quote from: nullama on July 03, 2023, 06:43:13 PM

Quote from: nelson4lov on July 03, 2023, 10:53:53 AM

~snip~
I wouldn't rely too much on AI predictions simply because if it were anywhere to churning out accurate predictions right now, then, we'd have had an influx of new millionaires / billionaires and most bookmarkers would simply go out of business. Maybe for skill-based games rather than sports betting considering the fact that getting recent data to train a model would not be an easy task.

I've always viewed it as a tool to stop some repetitive tasks and it can be best used right now as a tool rather than a standalone system.

Also the casinos probably are already using the latest advances in AI to predict their odds. And at the end of the day their odds always give them a nice advantage to the house, so it doesn't matter that you can predict correctly the odds, the house still has the advantage.

Example, a coin flip. Your AI predicts it has 50% chance of hitting tails. Casino pays odds of 40-60 for tails(slight advantage for casino). In the long term, casino will keep all your money because of that difference. See?, it doesn't matter if you have a perfect prediction of the odds.

The casino does have an advantage over the odds because of the house edges but that does not apply to sports betting. People can still use AI to choose the most perfect entry for sports betting.

When we place a bet, we see all the past records of the team and then place the bet on the stronger team hoping they will repeat the same performance again. When we take help from the AI to calculate the past performances, we would get the most accurate data in very less time and thus it will hep us choose the more appropriate team to bet on.

When it comes to gambling like sports betting on which we could be able to know or accumulate those good information about their history or simply speaking about numbers then it is really that an advantage
since you could be able to point out on what are their strenghts and weaknesses plus having the kind of comparison in between teams about statistics on which you would really be able to create that
analysis basing into those informations that you had gathered on which i could say that it is really that relevant.

We know that there are games which cant really be that affected with this like on luck based gambling games which are been ran by codes on where those are totally random.There's no way that it could
really be able to know on what are those possible outcomes on which a certain game would be having. This is why there's no sense on trying out to make use of AI just to know or on having
this kind of belief that AI would really be relevant on having that advantage on your gambling activity on which i could say that there's no really sense on doing so.

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Quote from: nullama on July 03, 2023, 06:43:13 PM

Quote from: nelson4lov on July 03, 2023, 10:53:53 AM

~snip~
I wouldn't rely too much on AI predictions simply because if it were anywhere to churning out accurate predictions right now, then, we'd have had an influx of new millionaires / billionaires and most bookmarkers would simply go out of business. Maybe for skill-based games rather than sports betting considering the fact that getting recent data to train a model would not be an easy task.

I've always viewed it as a tool to stop some repetitive tasks and it can be best used right now as a tool rather than a standalone system.

Also the casinos probably are already using the latest advances in AI to predict their odds. And at the end of the day their odds always give them a nice advantage to the house, so it doesn't matter that you can predict correctly the odds, the house still has the advantage.

Example, a coin flip. Your AI predicts it has 50% chance of hitting tails. Casino pays odds of 40-60 for tails(slight advantage for casino). In the long term, casino will keep all your money because of that difference. See?, it doesn't matter if you have a perfect prediction of the odds.

The casino does have an advantage over the odds because of the house edges but that does not apply to sports betting. People can still use AI to choose the most perfect entry for sports betting.

When we place a bet, we see all the past records of the team and then place the bet on the stronger team hoping they will repeat the same performance again. When we take help from the AI to calculate the past performances, we would get the most accurate data in very less time and thus it will hep us choose the more appropriate team to bet on.

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Quote from: nelson4lov on July 03, 2023, 10:53:53 AM

~snip~
I wouldn't rely too much on AI predictions simply because if it were anywhere to churning out accurate predictions right now, then, we'd have had an influx of new millionaires / billionaires and most bookmarkers would simply go out of business. Maybe for skill-based games rather than sports betting considering the fact that getting recent data to train a model would not be an easy task.

I've always viewed it as a tool to stop some repetitive tasks and it can be best used right now as a tool rather than a standalone system.

Also the casinos probably are already using the latest advances in AI to predict their odds. And at the end of the day their odds always give them a nice advantage to the house, so it doesn't matter that you can predict correctly the odds, the house still has the advantage.

Example, a coin flip. Your AI predicts it has 50% chance of hitting tails. Casino pays odds of 40-60 for tails(slight advantage for casino). In the long term, casino will keep all your money because of that difference. See?, it doesn't matter if you have a perfect prediction of the odds.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on June 27, 2023, 05:07:54 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on June 10, 2023, 09:56:11 PM

Quote from: len01 on June 08, 2023, 07:58:57 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

While those results happen from time to time it is not common and even casinos can suffer huge losses if someone was crazy enough to take a huge bet on favor of the underdog at the time.

So it is natural that even an AI will struggle to identify and accurately predict those results, still if given enough information about a particular sport and guiding the model in a very careful way I think it should be possible to produce an AI which could predict outcomes with enough accuracy to produce profits.

their profit margin is so high that losing once in a while wouldn't be a problem, probably.
even if they're losing millions, I'd expect online casinos to have an emergency reserve in cases of these issues.

That is expected because they cannot really afford to file a bankruptcy just because of that incident that a random person was just too crazy and bet on the heavy underdog with millions without knowing that the team will actually win and upsets the heavy favorite, I know it's not a first but it's just too awesome to read that kind of stories.

Anyway, the casino/platform surely have their own reserves for cases like that as it's not really everyday that they will have the favor because once in a while, they also know that there is really that person who is just too lucky on that certain day will have crazy bets just because of that factor.

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Quote from: Betwrong on July 03, 2023, 05:37:13 AM

Yes it's true, but it's always like that with skill-based gambling, be it poker, sports betting or whatever. Your probability of winning can be high but your win is never guaranteed. Can AI better than us humans in calculating the probabilities? I think it can. And you are right, it heavily depends on the prompt.

I wouldn't rely too much on AI predictions simply because if it were anywhere to churning out accurate predictions right now, then, we'd have had an influx of new millionaires / billionaires and most bookmarkers would simply go out of business. Maybe for skill-based games rather than sports betting considering the fact that getting recent data to train a model would not be an easy task.

I've always viewed it as a tool to stop some repetitive tasks and it can be best used right now as a tool rather than a standalone system.

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Quote from: babo on June 27, 2023, 02:17:58 AM

beyond this, the only evaluation that an AI can make is of the statistical type, it fits
but you could have done it before
perhaps now the advantage is that the complexity is hidden by a prompt, knowing which one it is obviously, because it is not really immediate

Yes it's true, but it's always like that with skill-based gambling, be it poker, sports betting or whatever. Your probability of winning can be high but your win is never guaranteed. Can AI better than us humans in calculating the probabilities? I think it can. And you are right, it heavily depends on the prompt.

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Quote from: OgNasty on June 27, 2023, 05:36:11 PM

I still haven't found anyone using AI like this but I'm sure people must be doing it. Is anyone aware of any reddit posts or other places that people may be discussing different prompts they are using to try and do this sort of gambling? I'm very tempted to do some sort of thread documenting the success of AI in gambling decisions, but so far I haven't found a good method to do so. Hopefully I get it figured out before the NBA season starts again. It would be cool to start doing some fun stuff with AI when that time rolls around again.

The thing is that, at least with OpenAI, the models are trained with old data, years old sometimes. So, you can't realistically use the ready models to ask for a prediction of a game that is happening soon.

The most important data, recent one, is not available in the model yet.

Maybe there are other models trained specifically to do this, including the latest results, and news, etc, but I haven't seen them yet. Maybe people are using them privately, which would make sense.

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Quote from: Unsoldier on June 30, 2023, 02:06:06 PM

Many casino games, such as roulette, blackjack or slot machines, are built on a mathematical model known as 'casino advantage'. And there is no way to overcome it. That's why casinos always have an advantage over players. Even the most advanced artificial intelligence algorithms cannot change this basis. Casino winning is based on luck and probability. So the use of AI cannot guarantee consistent gambling profits.

I totally agree with what you said, this is the right answer for me when gamblers who use AI for predictions cannot be their guarantee for winning because the algorithms in gambling are always more complicated than AI.
But I have a thought that will this be forever or if sometime in the future AI developed by hackers can beat the casinos?
Because it can happen and opportunities like this are always opportunities for those who want to benefit from gambling.

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Quote from: FanEagle on June 30, 2023, 01:16:39 PM

Quote from: wxa7115 on June 28, 2023, 09:13:47 PM

Both parties will try to take advantage of it but most likely the casinos are going to be the big winners in all of this, when computers were developed and became portable enough casinos forbid the use of computers on their games, while they could use them as much as they wanted, and now most slot machines are nothing but a modified computer.

So I expect the same to happen with AI, basically they will forbid its use for their customers but casinos will be able to freely use it and obtain an edge in this way.

I agree that casinos will be able to take the biggest advantage but not because of them forbidding it or anything. It is an online casino so if we use it they would not know about it at all and we would just continue to use it.

I believe it is going to work better because AI would help them as well, and since most casinos have tens of millions of dollars to spend on such improvements on their casinos, and the smaller ones could just buy it after big ones build it, that means that we are going to see AI on the casino side as well. They will figure out a way to use it to make you lose more, and that means we are going to see a lot more changes eventually ,that will be a risky move but it will definitely be something to look out for as well.

That big advantage in terms of allocating enough amount of budget to find the right counter in case the use of AI is already being used by the gambler, unless the gambler who will use it will b wiser and after making huge amount will stop and will use the money to invest or to established passive income something like creating own business, once the casino already notice that kind of edge from the gambler, it will be a huge adjustment that they will going to do.

Making sure that it won't bankrupt the business and will try to recover and a possible to turn things back to their favor.

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Many casino games, such as roulette, blackjack or slot machines, are built on a mathematical model known as 'casino advantage'. And there is no way to overcome it. That's why casinos always have an advantage over players. Even the most advanced artificial intelligence algorithms cannot change this basis. Casino winning is based on luck and probability. So the use of AI cannot guarantee consistent gambling profits.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on June 28, 2023, 09:13:47 PM

Both parties will try to take advantage of it but most likely the casinos are going to be the big winners in all of this, when computers were developed and became portable enough casinos forbid the use of computers on their games, while they could use them as much as they wanted, and now most slot machines are nothing but a modified computer.

So I expect the same to happen with AI, basically they will forbid its use for their customers but casinos will be able to freely use it and obtain an edge in this way.

I agree that casinos will be able to take the biggest advantage but not because of them forbidding it or anything. It is an online casino so if we use it they would not know about it at all and we would just continue to use it.

I believe it is going to work better because AI would help them as well, and since most casinos have tens of millions of dollars to spend on such improvements on their casinos, and the smaller ones could just buy it after big ones build it, that means that we are going to see AI on the casino side as well. They will figure out a way to use it to make you lose more, and that means we are going to see a lot more changes eventually ,that will be a risky move but it will definitely be something to look out for as well.

Topic: [POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 15. (Read 10120 times)