[POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 18.

Josefjix

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Quote from: len01 on June 12, 2023, 04:06:30 AM

well, in the end back to luck like you said.
maybe every year or even every decade AI will always be developed to get results that are quite accurate with various information that is entered into AI which provides greater accurate opportunities but all returns to luck.
remember, that gambling is about winning, losing and luck which means that nothing guarantees a win at gambling even if it is AI that has been developed.

I'm not particularly skeptical of AI just preferring AI to be used in ways other than predicting sports betting.

Everything is making advance, with AI in the picture, things going smoothly for everyone. Please don't get me wrong: AI is vastly superior to the brain since it produces long extremely important data in ways that the brain cannot accomplish. Our brain performs all of the functions in daily activities, and it is not recommended to put pressure on the brain. We must maintain steady balance for the purpose to do tasks correctly and avoid making costly mistakes. AI is best served when it involves programs other than gambling; AI is better handled when it comes to searching for essential data, such as school projects.

nullama

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Quote from: Betwrong on June 12, 2023, 06:05:56 AM

~snip~
See, You said it yourself, it can be useful. As for predicting outcomes of the things that are going to occur in future, you can ask "How to cook a tasty cheap soup?", and AI will provide you with a recipe, and it's kinda prediction of the future, innit? It's basically saying "Do this and this and you'll get a tasty soup in the future". In sports betting it could be "Bet on this and this, and you'll be in profit in the future." Of course, it's never guaranteed. You can be allergic to some ingredients in the recipe, or you might just don't like the taste, same as your profit might be negative after following AI's advice in sports betting, but we can try several times and see whether we want its help or not. AI has been doing well so far in many fields.

Well, the thing is that it's different when you use an AI to create a plan for you, like a recipe, etc, compared to betting.

When betting, the odds are always against you. The chances of a team winning are calculated, and then the casinos add some odds in their favor.

In a simplistic example, imagine a coin toss bet. The AI calculates that it is more probable that it lands on tail right now, but the thing is that the odds are not 50/50, they are slightly on the casino's side. So, say, if you win, you don't win 1, but win 0.8 or whatever. So, in the long term, you will win some, lose some, but overall, the casino will end up winning.

Betwrong

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Quote from: SamReomo on June 07, 2023, 06:33:20 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on June 06, 2023, 08:43:24 AM

~

I don't think that the A.I could be useful in predicting outcomes of the things that's going to occur in future. The worst thing with A.I is that it changes its predictions every time and that's why someone who purely relies of such predictions could end up losing a lot of money. Even if someone who's the master of those A.I based predictors couldn't get a proper prediction with very good prompts. Even A.I won't be able to predict the future price of a crypto-currency like Bitcoin because it's totally dumb when it comes to predictions.

I agree that A.I can be very useful for somethings, but most of the time A.I would cause more damage than good to humans and that's why many entrepreneurs are trying their best to stop further research on A.I because they can see that it could be very harmful for humans. I have used A.I software such as Stable-diffusion and I must say it was incredible in generating some images that were of low quality. However, it was still useful for the purpose.

See, You said it yourself, it can be useful. As for predicting outcomes of the things that are going to occur in future, you can ask "How to cook a tasty cheap soup?", and AI will provide you with a recipe, and it's kinda prediction of the future, innit? It's basically saying "Do this and this and you'll get a tasty soup in the future". In sports betting it could be "Bet on this and this, and you'll be in profit in the future." Of course, it's never guaranteed. You can be allergic to some ingredients in the recipe, or you might just don't like the taste, same as your profit might be negative after following AI's advice in sports betting, but we can try several times and see whether we want its help or not. AI has been doing well so far in many fields.

len01

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Quote from: maydna on June 11, 2023, 09:02:26 AM

-snip

But I don't think AI technology has yet reached that stage and is still being developed, so we are still looking for more information or there is already technology that can provide accurate predictions about matches. Indeed, using AI can provide a higher percentage because calculations from AI can be more accurate than we do, but we should not make decisions based solely on information from AI. But if we talk about the luck we can get, AI is having trouble knowing when that luck is coming.

well, in the end back to luck like you said.
maybe every year or even every decade AI will always be developed to get results that are quite accurate with various information that is entered into AI which provides greater accurate opportunities but all returns to luck.
remember, that gambling is about winning, losing and luck which means that nothing guarantees a win at gambling even if it is AI that has been developed.

I'm not particularly skeptical of AI just preferring AI to be used in ways other than predicting sports betting.

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Quote from: Renampun on June 01, 2023, 03:49:41 PM

too risky to leave our betting decisions to artificial intelligence imo, then I won't do it.
Just imagine, is it possible for ChatGPT to accurately and precisely predict yesterday's match in the European Cup final match between Sevilla vs Roma, I'm sure everyone must answer it's impossible.

it is not easy to be able to get accurate predictions, the data collected alone will not be 100% correct because soccer betting is still dominated by luck.

I tried ChatGPT to predict a few cricket matches when IPL was going on. The accuracy level was not that good, can't say bad too. I suck in writing prompts! If you know it good then the accuracy level might change. The risk is still high as you are dependent on an AI. I did felt conflicted at times as the team that I know will win is declared by the AI, has a chance of 50 percent winning. Such conflicts creates confusion and in the end you tend to not bet. Later on when you find out that you were correct, it creates a trust deficit on the AI. In my opinion when you are clueless of the outcome of a particular match then go and ask the AI and not for all games.

nullama

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Quote from: maydna on June 11, 2023, 09:02:26 AM

~snip~
But I don't think AI technology has yet reached that stage and is still being developed, so we are still looking for more information or there is already technology that can provide accurate predictions about matches. Indeed, using AI can provide a higher percentage because calculations from AI can be more accurate than we do, but we should not make decisions based solely on information from AI. But if we talk about the luck we can get, AI is having trouble knowing when that luck is coming.

It's been there for years, basically the technology that calculates the odds that every casino pays is calculated by some kind of AI.

The technology is just getting more and more accurate every year, but the math is still there, they calculate the odds and make them a bit more in favor to the casino.

That's why, even if you have an extremely accurate prediction, you will probably end up losing money against the casino in the long term. The odds are against the gambler.

maydna

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Quote from: wxa7115 on June 10, 2023, 09:56:11 PM

Quote from: len01 on June 08, 2023, 07:58:57 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

While those results happen from time to time it is not common and even casinos can suffer huge losses if someone was crazy enough to take a huge bet on favor of the underdog at the time.

So it is natural that even an AI will struggle to identify and accurately predict those results, still if given enough information about a particular sport and guiding the model in a very careful way I think it should be possible to produce an AI which could predict outcomes with enough accuracy to produce profits.

But I don't think AI technology has yet reached that stage and is still being developed, so we are still looking for more information or there is already technology that can provide accurate predictions about matches. Indeed, using AI can provide a higher percentage because calculations from AI can be more accurate than we do, but we should not make decisions based solely on information from AI. But if we talk about the luck we can get, AI is having trouble knowing when that luck is coming.

nullama

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Quote from: wxa7115 on June 10, 2023, 09:56:11 PM

~snip~
While those results happen from time to time it is not common and even casinos can suffer huge losses if someone was crazy enough to take a huge bet on favor of the underdog at the time.

So it is natural that even an AI will struggle to identify and accurately predict those results, still if given enough information about a particular sport and guiding the model in a very careful way I think it should be possible to produce an AI which could predict outcomes with enough accuracy to produce profits.

For every one person that wins big there are multiple others that lose.

At the end of the day the casino will always win because the odds are calculated like that. For example, let's say you win and I lose, the bank uses the money they got from me to pay you and still earn a bit from the whole transaction.

wxa7115

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Quote from: len01 on June 08, 2023, 07:58:57 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

While those results happen from time to time it is not common and even casinos can suffer huge losses if someone was crazy enough to take a huge bet on favor of the underdog at the time.

So it is natural that even an AI will struggle to identify and accurately predict those results, still if given enough information about a particular sport and guiding the model in a very careful way I think it should be possible to produce an AI which could predict outcomes with enough accuracy to produce profits.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: len01 on June 08, 2023, 07:58:57 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

the best odds are usually against all probabilities too, even in the future with the development of more sophisticated AIs we'll probably won't have AIs predicting black swan events
I can be wrong, of course, it's just what I feel about it right now

dunfida

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Quote from: Fredomago on June 08, 2023, 03:51:23 PM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on June 07, 2023, 11:03:29 PM

Quote from: Fredomago on May 24, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on May 24, 2023, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: flyingcarpet on May 06, 2023, 09:35:38 AM

Using artificial intelligence for predictions is a big mistake in my opinion. I give an example for football. There are thousands of possibilities for a position in the match. All the data obtained according to the logic of artificial intelligence are analyzed and an estimate emerges, but even this is insufficient. Because there is the luck factor. The luck factor makes predictability impossible. So I'm talking about 100% accurate predictability. Otherwise, it is quite normal for him to make inferences and say logical results based on the data at hand.

But we can make artificial intelligence guess for fun. It's also fun to follow. Sometimes I show off to my friends when the correct results come out. Because I was able to make this prediction thanks to artificial intelligence. Still, these predictions should not go beyond entertainment.

I think that using an AI at the moment for the prediction is indeed a big mistake, because it is not among the most viable ways to have a reliable answer, but in a few years things can change,or in a few months, it is known that many programmers are working day and night to get an AI that is the main ticket to be able to win lotteries, casinos, whatever, I don't know if they are more advanced than openia, but surely they are close,especially those criminals who like to leave to offline sites for stealing your funds.

That's something doable in my opinion as well, we can't measure the potential as there are smart people who really working behind and trying to make a good use of AI system, we can only imagine how wide the capabilities if in case that it really developed the way it's intentionally been done, though I also believe that in gambling industry, there are always good ways for the casino to improve and adjust and for sure they will not let AI bankrupt them.

A big possibility is that they will also create or program their business by the use of AI system to counter the advantages or possible edge from their end users.

I have been Seeing many Threads about AI and its Scope , obviously the AI at some point will have a bigger boom and those AI that are more specific will have Guaranteed Success , but how will the casinos then at that time when an AI starts to beat them ? so how will high-yield, high-profit game providers sell to casinos ? I think that each casino has to stop Buying so many games from the providers and opt for Original games so that they can attract more attention , Especially when it comes to Analysis that is done in favor of a system called Provably Fair , if an AI manages to beat that system is where everything can fall into Possible Chaos.

Indeed, and for sure gambling business owners and providers will not allow that to happen, they will use this same system to program and update their business to make sure that in anyhow they can still on the upper hand here, I think with AI gamblers can learn the usages of advance research but the guaranteed outcome, that's not possible in any gambling related business, there are still other factors than the stats and anything that AI can provide or can collect to whatever resources it may have.

If ever it would work then for sure these business would really be making that ANTI-AI kind of thing on which it would really be just that common sense that if it does work then gambling business or industry would be
no more on which AI could really be able to predict outcomes but in overall essence and realistic approach on which it would really be just that normal that it wont really be that effective. There's no way on predicting on what would be the game outcome of such sport or simply talks about sports betting. There are lots of factors which it would really affect out such result on which it would really be that normal that
results would really be totally random. AI might be able to give out those research or keywords on what you do asked on basing up on the past results which its a common response
but asking about future? Cant be that possible.

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on June 07, 2023, 11:03:29 PM

Quote from: Fredomago on May 24, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on May 24, 2023, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: flyingcarpet on May 06, 2023, 09:35:38 AM

Using artificial intelligence for predictions is a big mistake in my opinion. I give an example for football. There are thousands of possibilities for a position in the match. All the data obtained according to the logic of artificial intelligence are analyzed and an estimate emerges, but even this is insufficient. Because there is the luck factor. The luck factor makes predictability impossible. So I'm talking about 100% accurate predictability. Otherwise, it is quite normal for him to make inferences and say logical results based on the data at hand.

But we can make artificial intelligence guess for fun. It's also fun to follow. Sometimes I show off to my friends when the correct results come out. Because I was able to make this prediction thanks to artificial intelligence. Still, these predictions should not go beyond entertainment.

I think that using an AI at the moment for the prediction is indeed a big mistake, because it is not among the most viable ways to have a reliable answer, but in a few years things can change,or in a few months, it is known that many programmers are working day and night to get an AI that is the main ticket to be able to win lotteries, casinos, whatever, I don't know if they are more advanced than openia, but surely they are close,especially those criminals who like to leave to offline sites for stealing your funds.

That's something doable in my opinion as well, we can't measure the potential as there are smart people who really working behind and trying to make a good use of AI system, we can only imagine how wide the capabilities if in case that it really developed the way it's intentionally been done, though I also believe that in gambling industry, there are always good ways for the casino to improve and adjust and for sure they will not let AI bankrupt them.

A big possibility is that they will also create or program their business by the use of AI system to counter the advantages or possible edge from their end users.

I have been Seeing many Threads about AI and its Scope , obviously the AI at some point will have a bigger boom and those AI that are more specific will have Guaranteed Success , but how will the casinos then at that time when an AI starts to beat them ? so how will high-yield, high-profit game providers sell to casinos ? I think that each casino has to stop Buying so many games from the providers and opt for Original games so that they can attract more attention , Especially when it comes to Analysis that is done in favor of a system called Provably Fair , if an AI manages to beat that system is where everything can fall into Possible Chaos.

Indeed, and for sure gambling business owners and providers will not allow that to happen, they will use this same system to program and update their business to make sure that in anyhow they can still on the upper hand here, I think with AI gamblers can learn the usages of advance research but the guaranteed outcome, that's not possible in any gambling related business, there are still other factors than the stats and anything that AI can provide or can collect to whatever resources it may have.

len01

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Quote from: Fredomago on June 02, 2023, 01:42:53 PM

-snip

And just the same, even it's 99% the remaining percentage can still bring you to lose your bet, remember it's gambling and there are many things that will influence the potential outcome, I see the point where it can be developed and it can find more information but the accuracy especially when dealing in gambling, it's something that only luck can accurately dictate your winning chance.

in the end, from 99% there is still 1% luck left. as we saw when Barcelona played against Celta but Barcelona ended up losing, right?
well, this is an obvious case and maybe if using AI to predict the match AI will favor Barcelona because it is clear that the top team already has the perfect strength to beat Celta but luck of surprise and luck is always present in every sporting match.
so everything still depends on luck just like you said.

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Quote from: retreat on June 07, 2023, 07:43:28 AM

As AI gets smarter, I believe that one day it will be able to help users predict the final outcome of a match based on various data they have collected and advanced calculations. But still, I personally will not use this prediction at random, I will match this result based on my personal analysis and if it is correct then I will use the prediction results from this AI.

We will see as soon as there are many developments from each developer in the gambling field. AI can indeed collect data faster than us and provide a percentage of each team so we can know which one we choose. But as you said, we need to compare the results from the AI with our results so that there will be more clues that will help us choose. And all decisions are yours once you know which team has the bigger winning percentage so you don't choose the wrong one.

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Quote from: retreat on June 07, 2023, 07:43:28 AM

As AI gets smarter, I believe that one day it will be able to help users predict the final outcome of a match based on various data they have collected and advanced calculations. But still, I personally will not use this prediction at random, I will match this result based on my personal analysis and if it is correct then I will use the prediction results from this AI.

Gamblers can always get tips and suggestions that may be very helpful in gambling but not to rely on the use of AI to generate their gambling experience and make it a lifestyle, just as you've also advised that it not good enough to rely completely on the use of AI in gambling, we have to make use ot it the appropriate way because these same thing is what everyone will want to do by being totally dependent on the outcome of the use of AI while they are gambling which may not be possible because the casinos will be affected as everyone wins, but one can alwa adjust and readjusted the AI results received.

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Quote from: Fredomago on May 24, 2023, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on May 24, 2023, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: flyingcarpet on May 06, 2023, 09:35:38 AM

Using artificial intelligence for predictions is a big mistake in my opinion. I give an example for football. There are thousands of possibilities for a position in the match. All the data obtained according to the logic of artificial intelligence are analyzed and an estimate emerges, but even this is insufficient. Because there is the luck factor. The luck factor makes predictability impossible. So I'm talking about 100% accurate predictability. Otherwise, it is quite normal for him to make inferences and say logical results based on the data at hand.

But we can make artificial intelligence guess for fun. It's also fun to follow. Sometimes I show off to my friends when the correct results come out. Because I was able to make this prediction thanks to artificial intelligence. Still, these predictions should not go beyond entertainment.

I think that using an AI at the moment for the prediction is indeed a big mistake, because it is not among the most viable ways to have a reliable answer, but in a few years things can change,or in a few months, it is known that many programmers are working day and night to get an AI that is the main ticket to be able to win lotteries, casinos, whatever, I don't know if they are more advanced than openia, but surely they are close,especially those criminals who like to leave to offline sites for stealing your funds.

That's something doable in my opinion as well, we can't measure the potential as there are smart people who really working behind and trying to make a good use of AI system, we can only imagine how wide the capabilities if in case that it really developed the way it's intentionally been done, though I also believe that in gambling industry, there are always good ways for the casino to improve and adjust and for sure they will not let AI bankrupt them.

A big possibility is that they will also create or program their business by the use of AI system to counter the advantages or possible edge from their end users.

I have been Seeing many Threads about AI and its Scope , obviously the AI at some point will have a bigger boom and those AI that are more specific will have Guaranteed Success , but how will the casinos then at that time when an AI starts to beat them ? so how will high-yield, high-profit game providers sell to casinos ? I think that each casino has to stop Buying so many games from the providers and opt for Original games so that they can attract more attention , Especially when it comes to Analysis that is done in favor of a system called Provably Fair , if an AI manages to beat that system is where everything can fall into Possible Chaos.

nullama

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Quote from: retreat on June 07, 2023, 07:43:28 AM

As AI gets smarter, I believe that one day it will be able to help users predict the final outcome of a match based on various data they have collected and advanced calculations. But still, I personally will not use this prediction at random, I will match this result based on my personal analysis and if it is correct then I will use the prediction results from this AI.

Yeah, but the thing is that even if the predictions are as good as it can get, the payout for the odds will also be calculated with the same AI, so the casino will offer a deal that has a slight advantage to the house.

It's like exchanging currency, the exchange will always make money from the transaction, no matter how good deal you find.

retreat

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As AI gets smarter, I believe that one day it will be able to help users predict the final outcome of a match based on various data they have collected and advanced calculations. But still, I personally will not use this prediction at random, I will match this result based on my personal analysis and if it is correct then I will use the prediction results from this AI.

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Quote from: Betwrong on June 06, 2023, 08:43:24 AM

Quote from: wxa7115 on June 04, 2023, 09:10:29 PM

~ And in part social media has played a big part on this, now people do not stop to think if what they are reading is true or not, they simply react to it, which in turn generates a reaction on other people which either support or condemn their exaggerated reaction, which then generates a reaction on other people and so on.

So if social media was already useless as a means to inform yourself, AI took it a step further and made it completely useless.

But still, can we use AI to predict outcomes? And to what degree can we trust it? It's not like everything it says is bs, right? It's capable of a lot things, very helpful things, I mean. Currently I have a feeling that it all depends on the prompt and your analyzing the response from AI. People who are not good at it say AI is useless, but maybe we should just learn how to utilize the thing?

I don't think that the A.I could be useful in predicting outcomes of the things that's going to occur in future. The worst thing with A.I is that it changes its predictions every time and that's why someone who purely relies of such predictions could end up losing a lot of money. Even if someone who's the master of those A.I based predictors couldn't get a proper prediction with very good prompts. Even A.I won't be able to predict the future price of a crypto-currency like Bitcoin because it's totally dumb when it comes to predictions.

I agree that A.I can be very useful for somethings, but most of the time A.I would cause more damage than good to humans and that's why many entrepreneurs are trying their best to stop further research on A.I because they can see that it could be very harmful for humans. I have used A.I software such as Stable-diffusion and I must say it was incredible in generating some images that were of low quality. However, it was still useful for the purpose.

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Quote from: nullama on June 04, 2023, 01:48:13 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on June 02, 2023, 11:26:45 AM

~snip~
what do you think of the current talks about AI regulation by governments? do you think governments will be able to adapt fast enough?

and possible risks for humanity? too much alarm or real risk?

really curious about these questions
I don't really have answers, more like guesses

the way for me seems like we should join the machines, not fight them.

One of the main issues I see currently is the spread of fake news everywhere.

You cannot trust a photograph any more, and video is almost at the same level.

Basically you can generate any kind of photographic evidence, and a text to go along with it, all made up, and publish it anywhere. People believe any type of thing they read. That's the main issue currently.

definitely that's a big issue
that's why I don't thing democracies will survive much longer, probably in next 2 or 3 elections in most countries the politicians elected will be the ones that know how to use AI in their favor
for better or for worse
what do you think?

Topic: [POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 18. (Read 10042 times)