[POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 9.

Weawant

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Quote from: OgNasty on December 09, 2022, 12:11:37 AM

ChatGPT is all the rage at the moment. I’ve seen that people are asking it to predict sporting events. Would you leave gambling decisions up to artificial intelligence? Do you see any potential drawbacks for outsourcing your bets to a software program? Has anyone here tried this yet? Do we need someone to put together a thread of ChatGPT predictions to see how accurate they are? Any other thoughts?

Personally I don't use chatgpt for sports prediction because I think most of the predictions AI would give will be as a result of cumulative statistics it has gotten from the history of the sporting events, so more often than non AI predictions are usually statistics based as AI do not watch games but get information from statistics provided by sites and analyst on the media.

But when you do your prediction your self it's a combination of statistics and instincts put together which in most cases could be considered logical enough this does not not mean AI do not give accurate predictions as human do, definitely some AI predictions can be so accurate you would be glad you did used it as I have observed with some persons who has used it.

I have not used it before although I intend to try it in the nearest future but I will not be solely dependent on it's prediction as I will incorporate my personal perspective aswell due to my reservations I have with AI. This sports are done by humans and the human tendencies could set in sometimes and render statistics unreliable and that is which upon which AI depends.

nullama

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on September 20, 2023, 12:39:44 AM

~snip~
With open source, it will invite more and more developers to get involved in various AI projects and work on them for later release. With the release of AI projects from many developers, AI projects will grow even more because each developer will use their abilities to design great AI models for various domains, not just the gambling business.

Supported by increasingly advanced technology, the development of AI will also become more advanced and better. In the next 5 years or 10 years or even 20 years, there will be AI models that will be much better than the current ones. Everything will change so quickly that we will not expect it because the development of existing technology will help everyone, including human activities.

The speed of advancement of AI is incredible. It took about 10 years from the initial AlexNet (the winner of the Visual Recognition Challenge 2012) to now having generative AI advancements every year basically.

Even months is a short amount of time with all the big techs competing against each other to win the AI race

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Quote from: nullama on September 19, 2023, 08:41:51 PM

The thing is that now there are some open source models that have been released that are quite powerful, and that means that people might already be designing great AI for specific domains, and using that for their advantage.

We really don't know who or at what level, but it is definitely happening.

With open source, it will invite more and more developers to get involved in various AI projects and work on them for later release. With the release of AI projects from many developers, AI projects will grow even more because each developer will use their abilities to design great AI models for various domains, not just the gambling business.

Supported by increasingly advanced technology, the development of AI will also become more advanced and better. In the next 5 years or 10 years or even 20 years, there will be AI models that will be much better than the current ones. Everything will change so quickly that we will not expect it because the development of existing technology will help everyone, including human activities.

nullama

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on September 19, 2023, 09:18:22 AM

~snip~
It still needs further development for AI technology, which could happen, especially if more developers join to create better AI models. Maybe for now, AI can only predict sports and is still limited in its search for information, but over time and with updates from each developer, AI will get better. Seeing that the development of AI is still in its early stages, I think it is natural that AI cannot predict well. But I think the developer will fix this so we should remain patient and wait for good news from them.

The thing is that now there are some open source models that have been released that are quite powerful, and that means that people might already be designing great AI for specific domains, and using that for their advantage.

We really don't know who or at what level, but it is definitely happening.

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Quote from: Dave1 on September 16, 2023, 10:19:54 PM

Maybe in the future we will see AI and human interact together for the betterment of the world. But as far as sports predictions, as this point I highly doubt that they can predict the outcome as humans do as there are a lot of parameters to look.

And if I remember correctly, there is one thread wherein AI tries to predict the outcome of a UFC matchup and it was a disaster if you follow that prediction.

It still needs further development for AI technology, which could happen, especially if more developers join to create better AI models. Maybe for now, AI can only predict sports and is still limited in its search for information, but over time and with updates from each developer, AI will get better. Seeing that the development of AI is still in its early stages, I think it is natural that AI cannot predict well. But I think the developer will fix this so we should remain patient and wait for good news from them.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Dave1 on September 16, 2023, 10:19:54 PM

~
Maybe in the future we will see AI and human interact together for the betterment of the world. But as far as sports predictions, as this point I highly doubt that they can predict the outcome as humans do as there are a lot of parameters to look.

~

But isn't it easier for AI to look at a lot of parameters? Machines have been doing it for many years, analyzing better than humans something with a lot of parameters. I agree that at this point we don't have such an AI or we don't know how to properly prompt it. But I'm sure, in the future using AI to predict outcomes with a good accuracy will be possible.

nullama

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Quote from: Dave1 on September 16, 2023, 10:19:54 PM

~snip~
Maybe in the future we will see AI and human interact together for the betterment of the world. But as far as sports predictions, as this point I highly doubt that they can predict the outcome as humans do as there are a lot of parameters to look.

And if I remember correctly, there is one thread wherein AI tries to predict the outcome of a UFC matchup and it was a disaster if you follow that prediction.

At the end of the day, human level prediction will remain at the same position, whereas AI predictions keep getting better every few months.

This means that at some point, AI systems will be able to predict a result better than a human expert.

Of course it will never be 100% correct, but it only needs to be better than the human expert to be able to generate money.

Dave1

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Quote from: nullama on September 15, 2023, 12:21:33 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 14, 2023, 10:41:25 AM

~snip~
oh, that's interesting
didn't know about the go AIs, heard about it but just really little in the past

what we are seeing in art with AI is really cool too, many breakthroughs happening
we're hitting acceleration point now.

Yes, I think we are starting to enter the phase where human minds and AI minds work together to create new things.

This will be an inflection point in history, similar to how the Internet changed everything.

Maybe in the future we will see AI and human interact together for the betterment of the world. But as far as sports predictions, as this point I highly doubt that they can predict the outcome as humans do as there are a lot of parameters to look.

And if I remember correctly, there is one thread wherein AI tries to predict the outcome of a UFC matchup and it was a disaster if you follow that prediction.

nullama

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on September 15, 2023, 05:01:40 PM

~snip~
I'm pretty convinced we're well into the stuff "inflection point". The inevitable marriage of AI and sectors like the casino industry is just around the corner. And as for responsible gambling? Sure, there's an argument about AI possibly taking the empathy and human touch out of the equation.

AI can actually be programmed to detect addictive behaviors in real-time and take immediate action. A human might miss it or choose to ignore it for profits, but an AI? It could be ruthlessly efficient in promoting responsible gambling. As for replacing customer service? Maybe you're right; the human touch is irreplaceable... for now. Roll Eyes

Customer service is probably already replaced with AI for most tasks really...

And the AI is usually nicer and knows their stuff much better than lots of humans anyway.

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Quote from: Hispo on September 15, 2023, 12:27:39 PM

Quote from: nullama on September 15, 2023, 12:21:33 AM

Not sure if I would call this phase of the technological era to be an inflection point, because even though we can be pretty much amazed about what it was been reached with Artificial intelligence, there is still a long path forward before developers and even politicians who need to regulate the ethical questions behind AI.

Rather than being a tool for people to be more productive, I am afraid big companies will seek to replace much of their personnel by robots or machines powered with AI, in the case of casinos, they could try to replace costumer service with Artificial Intelligence in the Future, not for now though, since managing accounts where money is deposited requires human common sense.

I'm pretty convinced we're well into the stuff "inflection point". The inevitable marriage of AI and sectors like the casino industry is just around the corner. And as for responsible gambling? Sure, there's an argument about AI possibly taking the empathy and human touch out of the equation.

AI can actually be programmed to detect addictive behaviors in real-time and take immediate action. A human might miss it or choose to ignore it for profits, but an AI? It could be ruthlessly efficient in promoting responsible gambling. As for replacing customer service? Maybe you're right; the human touch is irreplaceable... for now. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: nullama on September 15, 2023, 12:21:33 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 14, 2023, 10:41:25 AM

~snip~
oh, that's interesting
didn't know about the go AIs, heard about it but just really little in the past

what we are seeing in art with AI is really cool too, many breakthroughs happening
we're hitting acceleration point now.

Yes, I think we are starting to enter the phase where human minds and AI minds work together to create new things.

This will be an inflection point in history, similar to how the Internet changed everything.

Not sure if I would call this phase of the technological era to be an inflection point, because even though we can be pretty much amazed about what it was been reached with Artificial intelligence, there is still a long path forward before developers and even politicians who need to regulate the ethical questions behind AI.

Rather than being a tool for people to be more productive, I am afraid big companies will seek to replace much of their personnel by robots or machines powered with AI, in the case of casinos, they could try to replace costumer service with Artificial Intelligence in the Future, not for now though, since managing accounts where money is deposited requires human common sense.

nullama

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 14, 2023, 10:41:25 AM

~snip~
oh, that's interesting
didn't know about the go AIs, heard about it but just really little in the past

what we are seeing in art with AI is really cool too, many breakthroughs happening
we're hitting acceleration point now.

Yes, I think we are starting to enter the phase where human minds and AI minds work together to create new things.

This will be an inflection point in history, similar to how the Internet changed everything.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: nullama on August 31, 2023, 10:03:29 PM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on August 31, 2023, 10:18:19 AM

~snip~
A way to think about AI is to look at chess

will studying AI moves or playing against an AI help you become a chessmaster?
no it won't.

can it be used as a resource to help you improve and teach you new things, as well as study your mistakes and blunders? yes it can.

Well, maybe not with chess because deep blue was not really that "smart".

But in Go, absolutely yes, and that has happened. AlphaGo surprised Go masters and they basically started to learn new moves based on what AlphaGo was doing.

It really is an alternative intelligence, and we humans can learn from it.

oh, that's interesting
didn't know about the go AIs, heard about it but just really little in the past

what we are seeing in art with AI is really cool too, many breakthroughs happening
we're hitting acceleration point now.

Betwrong

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Quote from: KTChampions on September 07, 2023, 08:28:52 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 06, 2023, 11:55:20 AM

you are right, probably easier to make an AI for chess than for poker, that's why we hear about chess GMs unable to beat AIs but nothing like that in poker, do you think its possible to create an AI that can bluff?

that would be interesting to see

Is this so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluribus_(poker_bot)

As I understand it, bots have been playing poker better than people for a long time and they have no problems with bluffing. A quick search of the name Pluribus yields many links about what professional players think of it and the fact that this bot bluffs in an unimaginable (and effective) way. And this is just one bot out of many, I’m sure there are commercial projects that keep their bots secret and simply make a profit (as long as there are live players on the market and not just bots haha).

I'm not sure about this. We should know the costs. It can be not profitable to run AI bots for winning small amounts, and usual poker bots(not AI ones) are easily outplayed by above average players. And as far as I know AI bot needs about 20 hours to play with particular players to start winning against them, knowing their habits. Against a completely new player AI can't do much actually.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 06, 2023, 11:55:20 AM

you are right, probably easier to make an AI for chess than for poker, that's why we hear about chess GMs unable to beat AIs but nothing like that in poker, do you think its possible to create an AI that can bluff?

that would be interesting to see

Is this so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluribus_(poker_bot)

As I understand it, bots have been playing poker better than people for a long time and they have no problems with bluffing. A quick search of the name Pluribus yields many links about what professional players think of it and the fact that this bot bluffs in an unimaginable (and effective) way. And this is just one bot out of many, I’m sure there are commercial projects that keep their bots secret and simply make a profit (as long as there are live players on the market and not just bots haha).

nullama

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on September 06, 2023, 11:55:20 AM

~snip~
you are right, probably easier to make an AI for chess than for poker, that's why we hear about chess GMs unable to beat AIs but nothing like that in poker, do you think its possible to create an AI that can bluff?

that would be interesting to see

That's actually quite an interesting idea.

An AI can clearly learn the basic rules of poker, in the same way that Deep Blue learnt all the chess moves basically.

So, in terms of strategy, the casino always plays the same. So, I wonder if there are some strategies that might be better in certain scenarios.

Card counting is one strategy that gives the gambler an edge.

But bluffing doesn't really help against the casino because they always play the same. Maybe when playing against other players it would work.

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: slapper on September 06, 2023, 07:24:59 AM

Quote from: maydna on September 05, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on August 31, 2023, 10:18:19 AM

Quote from: maydna on August 29, 2023, 06:14:39 PM

~snip~

A way to think about AI is to look at chess

will studying AI moves or playing against an AI help you become a chessmaster?
no it won't.

can it be used as a resource to help you improve and teach you new things, as well as study your mistakes and blunders? yes it can.

You are right. But it's better to study chess until we are really good at it and try to fight the AI in playing chess. We may lose against AI, but it will be helpful for us to improve its skills. And if we can learn AI steps or moves, that could also be useful for us to win playing chess against AI.

And the only thing we can do is keep learning while practicing it. One day, we will have a chance to beat AI because AI is also human-made, which will be better than humans. And there must be gamblers who won't give in to AI and will keep trying to beat it.

Chess isn't about gambling. It involves planning, insight, and pure intelligence. Chess's millennia of intellectual legacy are trivialized by attempts to compare it to a game of chance. A foolish tactic is to try to outwit AI by learning its moves. AI is a machine that is constantly learning, not a predictable foe with set tendencies. Therefore, even though you may believe you understand its patterns, its tactics are constantly changing. Now, when discussing how humans are posing a challenge to AI, certainly, we made it. But does creating anything imply that we will always be able to improve upon it? I contend not. It's still admirable to pursue constant learning and improvement. Don't stop pushing the limits

you are right, probably easier to make an AI for chess than for poker, that's why we hear about chess GMs unable to beat AIs but nothing like that in poker, do you think its possible to create an AI that can bluff?

that would be interesting to see

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Quote from: slapper on September 06, 2023, 07:24:59 AM

Quote from: maydna on September 05, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

~snip~

Chess isn't about gambling. It involves planning, insight, and pure intelligence. Chess's millennia of intellectual legacy are trivialized by attempts to compare it to a game of chance. A foolish tactic is to try to outwit AI by learning its moves. AI is a machine that is constantly learning, not a predictable foe with set tendencies. Therefore, even though you may believe you understand its patterns, its tactics are constantly changing. Now, when discussing how humans are posing a challenge to AI, certainly, we made it. But does creating anything imply that we will always be able to improve upon it? I contend not. It's still admirable to pursue constant learning and improvement. Don't stop pushing the limits

For this reason, we also have to continue learning apart from observing the movements of AI. Perhaps we can beat AI by continuously learning from various sources and developing it into the right strategy to beat AI. But it is not easy to beat AI because AI is a machine that continues to learn like us and never stops, so it is not easy for AI to predict what moves it will make. But at least, if we can learn too, it can improve our playing skills to have a higher chance of winning. And with that increased skill, we can use it against AI or other players.

slapper

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Quote from: maydna on September 05, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

Quote from: Lucasgabd on August 31, 2023, 10:18:19 AM

Quote from: maydna on August 29, 2023, 06:14:39 PM

~snip~

A way to think about AI is to look at chess

will studying AI moves or playing against an AI help you become a chessmaster?
no it won't.

can it be used as a resource to help you improve and teach you new things, as well as study your mistakes and blunders? yes it can.

You are right. But it's better to study chess until we are really good at it and try to fight the AI in playing chess. We may lose against AI, but it will be helpful for us to improve its skills. And if we can learn AI steps or moves, that could also be useful for us to win playing chess against AI.

And the only thing we can do is keep learning while practicing it. One day, we will have a chance to beat AI because AI is also human-made, which will be better than humans. And there must be gamblers who won't give in to AI and will keep trying to beat it.

Chess isn't about gambling. It involves planning, insight, and pure intelligence. Chess's millennia of intellectual legacy are trivialized by attempts to compare it to a game of chance. A foolish tactic is to try to outwit AI by learning its moves. AI is a machine that is constantly learning, not a predictable foe with set tendencies. Therefore, even though you may believe you understand its patterns, its tactics are constantly changing. Now, when discussing how humans are posing a challenge to AI, certainly, we made it. But does creating anything imply that we will always be able to improve upon it? I contend not. It's still admirable to pursue constant learning and improvement. Don't stop pushing the limits

nullama

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Quote from: KTChampions on September 05, 2023, 06:58:29 AM

~snip~
I do not think that this will be a big problem, because even now when AI processes (trains) on various images, it creates new information for itself (which we cannot understand). For example, AI analyzes well, and subsequently imitates the styles of different artists, but it is probably impossible to write down exactly what these styles are. Similarly, it can happen, for example, with a football match - the AI will watch it and will make live quotes regarding the outcome of this match (and they will be extremely accurate), but a person will not be able to see the rationale for these quotes.

Fair enough, that's basically the black box problem. That the AI might be able to predict things usefully but we don't know why.

Now, that could happen, but still we don't know if current AI has the predicting capability based on the current information.

Maybe, and maybe not. I don't think we know this yet.

Topic: [POLL] Using AI to predict outcomes - page 9. (Read 9788 times)