Topic: Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today! - page 16. (Read 51113 times)

Is there no internal power supply???

Unlike some other ASIC vendors, BFL products are priced in $US not BTC, how you come up with those $US is up to you. If you choose to use Bitpay instead of Paypal because you want to convert some BTC to $US to pay for the item, then what happens to the BTC after Bitpay receives them is no longer your concern. Bitpay might convert them to any number of different currencies at the request of BFL, there are many currency options Bitpay offer merchants. If I was BFL I wouldn't leave the money in BTC, far too risky, I would use fiat,  since BFL need to buy wafers, other components. pay rent and wages with it, can't suddenly have the value dropping by 50% as would have happened to any payments in the week after April 10th. But once again what happens to the BTC after Bitpay accept it is none of your business. All you need worry about is that you get the item you have purchased in what you feel is an acceptable time frame, or seek a refund of the $US purchase price.




 

+1 for your post Red_Wolf_2.

BFL and Josh seem to get a lot of hate here.  I can understand criticism for the way things have gone down, but what you find here goes beyond that.

I first purchased a pair of FPGA Singles, and then as soon as the preorder for ASICS was announced, did the trade-in order for a pair of SC Singles.

I've had interactions with Josh from his mining operation that I used, and also with various BFL support staff regarding my orders.  All of those interactions have been pleasant and professional.  When dealing with any business, it helps to be pleasant and professional yourself if you'd like to be treated the same in return.

I can also understand people who have placed early orders and feel let down.  You can ask for a refund or you can wait it out, it's up to you.  All of this bitcoin mining stuff is risky and there is little guarantee things will work out how you'd like them to.

If you bought a stock you thought was going to increase in value, and then had it drop in price and started having doubts, you might think it was a pretty good deal to be able to go back and get a refund for your original purchase price.  That's sort of what BFL is allowing by granting refunds.  But there's still complaints, because they can't go back in time to make a different, more profitable choice with their refund money (refund me in BTC now that its risen 700% !).

Your logic has major discrepancies.

1. BitPay is coverting BTC to USD on behalf of BFL and to the extend BFL wish. They may covert 100% of the bitcoins received, 50%, or none at all. Depends how BFL setup their merchant account with BitPay. Don't forget that contractual obligation to covert all of the BTC or part of it is between BFL and BitPay, not between BitPay and BFL customers!

2. If you ask why, I'll ask as well. If bitcoin price skyrockets, I don't understand how is purchasing bitcoins from MtGox and sending them to BFL is more profitable than purchasing bitcoins from MtGox and keeping them in my bitcoin wallet? On the contrary, if bitcoin price skyrockets and BFL refunds BTC pre-orders in USD they simply profit from the free option call gambling customer money.

3. If bitcoin price drops to zero BFL customers are losers again despite that they've some chance to get USD priced product in future. It is very close to mind that if bitcoin price drops to zero the price of BFL ASICs will be zero either for they can not be used for anything else but mine bitcoins. In fact you'll have to pay extra money to dump them in electronic garbage depo.

You understand how business works, and you think it's ok for a business to extort apologies from customers?  The business you'd like to run would be one in which all customers pampered your little butt, eh?  If folks don't pamper your soft little butt, you'd start abusing customers because you can't handle it?  You have no clue how business works.  You're a low-level tech who should be fired from your job.

And what is the ONE difference that kickstarter's website has?

Ever heard from kickstarter.com? ... They are just one of at least a dozen community venture capital start-up websites.
I support two project there I paid over a year ago (pebble (red/white) and ramos clock) ... Nothing delivered yet (at least to me) ... so do I publicly cry about it? No!
The cry-babies in this form really get on my nerves, especially to ones who say ... "I ordered (some time after Nov '12) where is my f.... product?". Stop wining ... ask for a refund ... or just sit and wait.

Peace and world mining (or something like that )

   one4many

Sure I have... We've all seen it with certain mobile phone makers. We've seen similar behavior with other ASIC makers too. It doesn't make it right, but it is no excuse to be a jerk.
You and I both know BFL didn't intend for pre-orders to be delayed by a full year. No business would willingly do that.
As for full bitcoin refunds, that would never happen. The payment gateway for many orders was bitinstant or bitpay or something (not sure which, was a while ago when I ordered). Those convert the coins to USD I'd imagine, and do it on the spot. The price of bitcoin skyrockets and you expect to get that gain even though you willingly parted with them for a product at the value of the time? I'd ask, why? Its no different to making a trade on Gox and then seeing the price go up. Sucks, but you made the decision to push the button at that time, knowing the exchange would take place.

Haven't heard anything about venture capital or using customer's money for R&D. Really, I'd hope they would do decent R&D, and that would be the point of taking preorders would it not?

Side note: I wonder if a judge would classify bitcoin as money anyway? Successfully arguing that in court could open some pretty interesting legal precedents now couldn't it!

Attitude, behavior, communication skills are often key factors in financial success, if you don't have those under control then you would naturally look for other ways to make a buck. Mining could well attract some of the group that are week in those skills, and explain some of the things you observed here. Probably no different than the many of the people attracted to gold mining in the past.

I have never witnessed another "business" taking pre-orders ONE YEAR ahead, lying they have attracted venture capital, using customers money for R&D, refusing full bitcoin refunds, and lying all the time month after month that what they need is just two more weeks and everything will be okay! Have you?!

What if Josh's screenshot is genuine but he coordinated his action with bitcointalk mod insider switching names? Knowing from my own experience how some mods ferociously defend BFL crooks on these forums it won't surprise me at all!

The money is not lost, it is in BFL's hands. After a reasonable amount of time, failure to deliver becomes breach of contract.
Caveat emptor is not a defense when you break a contract to deliver product after the customer has paid in full.

The question boils down to: would a judge feel that it is reasonable for someone to wait 7 months to deliver a product that has been paid for.

I requested a refund in Jan 2013. BFL decided to ignore my request. A month later I'm no longer interested in the refund because most of my invested 200 BTC would have been lost. Now, most of my investement is lost no matter what BFL is doing.

Those BFL assholes made everything they could do to make sure they get my money and I will loose my investment. My only possibility is to never deal with BFL and Josh the douche bag again. Fuck you BFL!

Why not? I would love love to communicate with somebody other than BFL's Johnson. My phone number is... going to be released in "about two weeks". We're working hard (or hardly working, idk the difference really) to get those digits into the computer. In other news, all hail the mighty Inaba! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y

Also, check out our dear leader's home page! http://joshzerlan.com/

Josh gonna Josh itt...not too surprised.

However, I think it's highly improbable that Josh faked that screenshot. He's a lot of things, but I seriously doubt he would try to pull that off.

Someone should start a wager on bitbet. Especially since there seem to be quite a few people here who believe that Josh faked the Werner post. Should be some interesting action.

edit: Also, Garr obviously fucked up here badly as well. Both parties have done wrong imo.

edit again: Garr scamming the bids and such is much worse and in completely different category than what Josh has done itt. Just want to make myself clear.

Finally someone with the head on it's place! Thanks for your words, Red_Wolf_2.

The behavior on this thread really does astound me. In fact, its why I have finally signed up for an account here after more than a year and a half of lurking and avoiding it. I even waited out the newbie period for it.

I've read all the pages and pages of posts, and the only conclusion I can really come to is that the vast majority of people here are greedy, disturbed and nasty individuals. The attacks on each other have been at a very personal level which I would expect of an IRC channel filled with angry teenagers.

Do I understand that people are upset about not having their mining gear? Yes. I am one of those people. Do I feel opportunity has been lost? Sure! Do I wish things were different? Definitely.

That said, I also understand the real world, and how business works. Deadlines are not always met. Estimates can be over optimistic. Customers can get upset, money can be lost. That is the reality of this world, it isn't nice or fair. I posted a very long blog post over on the BFL forums outlining what I believe has gone wrong and why things have taken so long for BFL to get products moving out the door. I'm not going to repost it here so if you want to read it, go there and do so.

What I do find very disturbing is the way everyone is acting. I am increasingly finding it hard to have any sympathy for the people bleating and whining about how BFL is awful/scam/fraud/terrible/whatever. Have none of you ever worked in a customer focused role? I have worked on IT helpdesks before and I've dealt with nasty customers who do stupid things and then like to blame you for their mistakes and problems. Truth is, when you deal with it day in, day out, it starts to take its toll on you. You become jaded, short tempered and often quite nasty when pushed even a little bit. I've been lucky to almost never have had to deal with people who take the insults beyond a professional level apart from one fat unhappy girl who decided to say how hopeless I was to a colleague while I was working on her machine, right next to her.
I ended up reminding her I was right next to her, and my body language got the hint across the rest of the way. Had she persisted, I would have said "Fix it yourself", then gone and reported her to my manager.

I do have sympathy for Josh/Inaba, because day after day he has had to cope with all of your vitriol, nastiness and personal attacks. What is abundantly clear from the Garr situation is that he, like all of us, is actually human and can be pushed too far. You all claim his behavior is unprofessional, that he is a horrible person. Honestly, what do you all expect after what you do here?

If you don't like BFL. Simple. Don't buy from them. Get refunds if you have. It will make a lot of people a lot happier and calmer as a result.

Maybe before you go posting another thing, start thinking about how you would feel to be on the receiving end. Then multiply it by a few hundred. Then reconsider your post.

Amusingly enough, in my country it is considered a crime to use a carriage service to menace, harrass or cause offence. If convicted I believe the penalty can be up to three years in jail. I'm not in China, and I suspect similar laws exist where most of you are from. Those of you screaming lawsuit might want to consider what could be brought to bear on yourselves too were threads from this forum submitted as evidence of your behavior. I suspect any judge would look rather dimly on abusive behavior, threats, sock puppet accounts being used for fraud, etc. Just something to consider.

PS: Before you go calling BFL Shill, I'm not. I'm not even in the same country as BFL and am just a customer waiting on two Jalapenos. If you want to talk to me, you'll find me on Freenode IRC under the same or a very similar name.

If I was your investor, I would immediately ask for a refund after seeing this thread.

If I was your investor, I would never allow you to lie on my behalf. I would never allow you to give up basic morals and principles on my behalf, while humiliating yourself publicly. I would accept the forced refund and put all the blame on BFL because until the sockpuppet thing unfolded it was not your fault, as before Josh exposed you, you were raising valid points in the best interest of your investors.

I really hope mods look into this. Dishonest people abusing honest folks by robbing them using bidding sockpuppets in auctions should NEVER be allowed or indulged. Should ALWAYS be looked into. Otherwise this very forum becomes scammer's paradise.

The evidence is enormous. Josh posted the screenshot immediately after your post. What a coincidence that the posts of Werner are always supporting your ventures and bidding in your auctions. But I do really hope Josh is some kind of ultra-fast photoshopper and the mods can prove that Werner is definitely NOT your sockpuppet account.

I'm sorry, but there are only two options in here: either you (Garr) are a scammer with bidding sockpuppets that pump up the price in your auctions, effectively robbing people's money; or Josh willingly faked proof against you regarding a very serious issue, and that would be a filthy libel that cannot go unpunished. One of you needs to go, or to get a scammer tag, or whatever other measure there is in these forums to avoid honest people to be abused by the the dishonest ones.

What a sad thread.  

Sure, but if he made the mistake Josh is claiming, then he may have also screwed up in other ways as well. All it takes is one slip up, and the server logs would show it. In this case, absence of evidence cannot be taken as evidence of absence. However, if the two accounts did log in from the same IP it would be very damning evidence indeed.