Topic: Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today! - page 13. (Read 51113 times)

The truth is that you won't know in what form and at what ratio (if they received a split) they received money for their products that were very clearly priced in USD.

Most people assume that they received some USD, at least.

Relax, both becoin and K9 know exactly how BitPay works. They're just purposely trolling to get a rise out of people by claiming ignorance. Becoin alone has been running with the same arguments for months now. It's usually just easier to put them on ignore.

Well let's flip the possibilities.. and then add in a dash of reasoning..

If someone paid ~2.5 BTC to buy a Jalapeno right now.. and then 3 months from now BTC plunges to 5$ a BTC again..  Would that customer.. or YOU.. be DEMANDING that you get your 2.5BTC back?  You think if BFL forced the 2.5BTC on you when that only added up to ~$12.50, that that would be ok?  

Let's look at the truths though.  When they charged people in BTC.. they were NOT charging people for direct BTC.  The site had USD prices listed as the main price.. bolded.  Below that they had an amount that added up to however many bitcoins that amount in USD costs.  The sale was in USD.  If you wanted to pay in Canadian dollars, or pesos, and if they allowed it, they would have sent you the bill in USD along with an amount in pesos.. or Canadian dollars that equaled the USD price.  If the payments never had USD listed, or the website was not advertising in USD, I could see the confusion, and the complaint but they were.  Plain and simple.   What you chose to take out of that other than, "This US based company, who buys things with US dollars, who was invested in with US dollars, is selling a product for US dollars" is your own fault.

What about all the online retailers taking bitcoin as payment.  Do you mean to tell me if they offer returns (say 30 day for electronics) that I can get my product, but have 30 day insurance that if bitcoin goes WAY up in price I can force a return, and get bitcoins that are worth twice the amount?

...can no one see the logic in this?  Can no one see the MAJOR scams that would come out of this being a common practice?  If the price of bitcoins tanked like my example at the top of this post, and butterfly labs was offering refunds back in BTC worth 1/20th the cost they originally were worth, EVERYONE would be calling that a scam, and so would I.

I think it should be Very Well Noted, that the First BFL Single, Is being put up for sale Immediatley.
Showing what I believe to be Doubt in the product, my bet is that the seller is worried about the lifetime of the product
I have yet to see a running BFL asic that doesnt put out HW errors

Good luck Xian01 I really this works out for you (and consequently not BFL!!).  I also hope if you do happen to settle before going to court that you don't accept a "gag order" type settlement, I think there are a great many people that would benefit and be very interested in how this turns out.

BFL took a currency risk and apparently did not hedge it. Or they hedged it (by keeping the BTC paid instead of converting to USD) but are now unwilling to part with the profit made by holding that hedge. The only way it matters why BFL does not want to refund either what customers paid or what customers are due is if they deliberately set out to defraud people.

BFL had to offer refunds to anyone because otherwise nobody in their right mind would give them money. That might prove to be inconvenient later on

I proposed that "stupid" argument solely to give an example of what you were asking for.  Congratulations, and thank you on proving my point.

What a stupid argument... Someone that had 300 BTC last June and just kept them on their wallet until now is smarter because they can buy now 150 Jalapenos if they decide to. Only fools paid BFL 300 BTC for 1 Jalapeno last June, right? Excellent point.

Customers that expect BFL to follow the law might indeed be naive. Those customers are not without recourse.
It will be interesting to see what a judge considers a reasonable time for delivery of product in this case. Presuming of course that BFL does not settle.

What do you expect? PPL have warned you about ebay.

Good luck with Bitmit, using escrow is your only option really

Good luck with the sale and thanks for the transparency!

Exactly.  No ASIC company with pre-orders would.  Any customer expecting it is naive.  

Your example was extraneous.

Ebay canceled the listing not me. They want me to "verify" my account with ID because the price is much higher than anything I've ever sold to protect the buyers which is something they are good at. They also want me to prove I own the device by having the manufacture send them a receipt. They also asked why shipping would be delayed if 25K wasn't met. They couldn't understand that. This is a good thing. It gives me a chance to make a listing that doesn't rub anyone the wrong way and using Bitmit which is what I should have used in the first place.

Now, do I trust that much money sitting in escrow on Bitmit?

Mentioned in one of the answers to the questions posed on ebay, I plan to use these funds to fuel development of a 3rd party BFL chip miner.

Thanks,
      Allten

That statement might be correct and does not conflict with any examples I have provided.
BFL will not willingly "refund" 300 BTC. They would have to be compelled to do so.

Yeah, I just noticed that too but the item isn't available to view like with closed auctions. It's completely removed without a trace. That usually happens when someone complains to eBay about the listing or eBay decides to remove it on their own. I saw that a few times with big actual fireworks listed on eBay.

Why are you creating a whole new example?

No ASIC company is going to refund 300 BTC right now if you paid 300 BTC a year ago for a pre-order.

I don't get why it's so hard to deliver one Jalepeno that has been on order for several months haha. This wouldn't be a big deal if BFL could deliver their promises.

I forgot about your severe challenges with logic. Let me illustrate how absurd your position is.

I give you $2000 of gold that you need to hold as a reserve, and in return you promise pay me the market value of the gold + $20 interest in 6 months time. 6 months passes. You do not pay. Another 6 months passes, the spot value of gold has now increased 50 fold over when the contract was first entered. You decide that instead of paying me the market value (and $20) that you promised, you will "refund" the $2000 instead of the gold. Now you sell the gold at market for a 50x profit.

Then you get sued for breach of contract and lose. Then you sue your lawyer for advising you to go to court instead of settle. Then you get herpes. (its my fact pattern I can stipulate what I want ).

It is about fault for the purchaser: it's about not understanding opportunity costs and realistically understanding the risks involved with a highly volatile currency like BTC.

As an observer, I would ask you why the following situation would seem logical?

Just noticed that the auction is no longer on ebay. I wonder if the OP got his 25k or decided to mine with it.