Anyone else picturing this while reading this thread?
Lol!
Topic: Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today! - page 12. (Read 51113 times)
Lol!
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FTFY.
Anyone else picturing this while reading this thread?
BFL did not receive bitcoins for preorders. BFL received USD and allowed customers to exchange BTC for USD using BitPay for their own convenience.
Customers paid in BTC. Bitpay acted on behalf of BFL (like a bank or credit card company would) to receive that BTC. What BFL instructed Bitpay to do with that BTC after receiving it is BFL's business. If BFL received USD from Bitpay, then it was only because BFL instructed Bitpay to convert the BTC into USD.When a customer placed an order they immediately exchanged their BTC for USD and used that USD to pay for the order. This is exactly the same as if you sold bitcoins for cash, deposited cash into your bank account, then used your debit card to pay for the preorder, except that it is much much easier and quicker. BFL did not gamble on any currency, they did exactly the opposite.
You clearly did not read the bitpay faq here: https://bitpay.com/faqBitpay does what the merchant instructs with the funds. If BFL wanted the BTC so they could escrow it and refund it like they claimed to, then Bitpay would have sent them BTC. If BFL wanted to instead spend that BTC on operations and development, then Bitpay would have converted it to USD for them.
My mistake, you are correct. Didn't realize there were multiple options for what happened with your funds.
Can someone point me to the post where BFL says they kept the funds in bitcoins?
Also, I can't seem to find a screenshot of BFL's page showing the prices in bitcoins. Link?
At this point I can't tell if some of you are trolling or if you're actually this moronic.
At this point I can tell you didn't pay 200 BTC for a product in June 2012 only to have 12.5 BTC sent back to you now. I'd never be so stupid to pay 200BTC for a product if I knew the same BTC would be worth 1600% more a year later. What were people thinking? Why wouldn't they just pay in USD if BTC was going to skyrocket?
BFL did not receive bitcoins for preorders. BFL received USD and allowed customers to exchange BTC for USD using BitPay for their own convenience.
Customers paid in BTC. Bitpay acted on behalf of BFL (like a bank or credit card company would) to receive that BTC. What BFL instructed Bitpay to do with that BTC after receiving it is BFL's business. If BFL received USD from Bitpay, then it was only because BFL instructed Bitpay to convert the BTC into USD.When a customer placed an order they immediately exchanged their BTC for USD and used that USD to pay for the order. This is exactly the same as if you sold bitcoins for cash, deposited cash into your bank account, then used your debit card to pay for the preorder, except that it is much much easier and quicker. BFL did not gamble on any currency, they did exactly the opposite.
You clearly did not read the bitpay faq here: https://bitpay.com/faqBitpay does what the merchant instructs with the funds. If BFL wanted the BTC so they could escrow it and refund it like they claimed to, then Bitpay would have sent them BTC. If BFL wanted to instead spend that BTC on operations and development, then Bitpay would have converted it to USD for them.
At this point I can't tell if some of you are trolling or if you're actually this moronic.
At this point I can tell you didn't pay 200 BTC for a product in June 2012 only to have 12.5 BTC sent back to you now. If you were truly bullish on BTC, you would have paid in USD and kept the bitcoin in your wallet. The fact that BTC is worth a lot more now then it was 1 year ago is completely irrelevant. To prove to you how absurd the logic is, lets assume BTC is worth 10% of what it was one year ago right now. Do you think it would be reasonable for any company to make you pay 10x more BTC before they would ship just because the value of BTC went down after you made your purchase and payment?
The main reason people are upset is because they made a poor decision to part with BTC and now it's worth 10x as much. The only thing that is relevant is the price of BTC in USD at the time of purchase. Anything else is sour grapes.
BFL did not receive bitcoins for preorders. BFL received USD and allowed customers to exchange BTC for USD using BitPay for their own convenience.
Customers paid in BTC. Bitpay acted on behalf of BFL (like a bank or credit card company would) to receive that BTC. What BFL instructed Bitpay to do with that BTC after receiving it is BFL's business. If BFL received USD from Bitpay, then it was only because BFL instructed Bitpay to convert the BTC into USD.When a customer placed an order they immediately exchanged their BTC for USD and used that USD to pay for the order. This is exactly the same as if you sold bitcoins for cash, deposited cash into your bank account, then used your debit card to pay for the preorder, except that it is much much easier and quicker. BFL did not gamble on any currency, they did exactly the opposite.
You clearly did not read the bitpay faq here: https://bitpay.com/faqBitpay does what the merchant instructs with the funds. If BFL wanted the BTC so they could escrow it and refund it like they claimed to, then Bitpay would have sent them BTC. If BFL wanted to instead spend that BTC on operations and development, then Bitpay would have converted it to USD for them.
At this point I can't tell if some of you are trolling or if you're actually this moronic.
At this point I can tell you didn't pay 200 BTC for a product in June 2012 only to have 12.5 BTC sent back to you now. 
Remember when you point your finger at someone their are three looking back at you.
I don't know what kind of weird crooked fingers you have, but when I point at someone, I point at someone, not 4 different things.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3uxgwh/
He is referring to when you hold your arm out infront of you and have your index finger extended and your middle, ring, and pinky on your palm. The index finger is pointing in front of you, while the others are pointing at you.
BFL did not receive bitcoins for preorders. BFL received USD and allowed customers to exchange BTC for USD using BitPay for their own convenience.
+1
BFL did not receive bitcoins for preorders. BFL received USD and allowed customers to exchange BTC for USD using BitPay for their own convenience.
When a customer placed an order they immediately exchanged their BTC for USD and used that USD to pay for the order. This is exactly the same as if you sold bitcoins for cash, deposited cash into your bank account, then used your debit card to pay for the preorder, except that it is much much easier and quicker. BFL did not gamble on any currency, they did exactly the opposite.
At this point I can't tell if some of you are trolling or if you're actually this moronic.
When a customer placed an order they immediately exchanged their BTC for USD and used that USD to pay for the order. This is exactly the same as if you sold bitcoins for cash, deposited cash into your bank account, then used your debit card to pay for the preorder, except that it is much much easier and quicker. BFL did not gamble on any currency, they did exactly the opposite.
At this point I can't tell if some of you are trolling or if you're actually this moronic.
Shouldn't you be packing boxes with a clown nose on?
Remember when you point your finger at someone their are three looking back at you.
I don't know what kind of weird crooked fingers you have, but when I point at someone, I point at someone, not 4 different things.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3uxgwh/
BFL took a currency risk and apparently did not hedge it. Or they hedged it (by keeping the BTC paid instead of converting to USD) but are now unwilling to part with the profit made by holding that hedge.
The truth is that you won't know in what form and at what ratio (if they received a split) they received money for their products that were very clearly priced in USD.
Most people assume that they received some USD, at least.
How else would BFL pay for their components, rent, wages. and other expenses? It's nice to think you can use BTC for some things, but in reality it's not very many.
BFL has stated over and over that they have not touched customer funds for development and operations.
BFL has stated over and over that they put the funds in escrow and that anyone who wants a refund can have one.
If BFL was going to put into escrow what they collected from customers, why on earth would they instruct Bitpay to convert the BTC to anything else? That would create the mother of all exchange rate risks.
Bitpay will convert BTC into any of 30 other currencies and deposit those funds into a bank account of the merchants choosing. Bitpay will just send the BTC unless the merchant tells them otherwise. https://bitpay.com/faq
If BFL did convert the BTC into USD to pay rent, wages, and buy components, then why did they lie about doing so?
Butterfly labs are using the fact that they have shipped jalapeños to draw in new and unassuming customers. The new money they are generating can and is being used to refund old customers who are complaining and requesting refunds. The new customers with eager hopes and dreams allow them more time to continue the lies and deception while they try and figure out how to actually produce these units.
Classic ponzhi scheme. Pay the old money with the new money, rinse and repeat.
BFL took a currency risk and apparently did not hedge it. Or they hedged it (by keeping the BTC paid instead of converting to USD) but are now unwilling to part with the profit made by holding that hedge.
The truth is that you won't know in what form and at what ratio (if they received a split) they received money for their products that were very clearly priced in USD.
Most people assume that they received some USD, at least.
How else would BFL pay for their components, rent, wages. and other expenses? It's nice to think you can use BTC for some things, but in reality it's not very many.
BFL has stated over and over that they have not touched customer funds for development and operations.
BFL has stated over and over that they put the funds in escrow and that anyone who wants a refund can have one.
If BFL was going to put into escrow what they collected from customers, why on earth would they instruct Bitpay to convert the BTC to anything else? That would create the mother of all exchange rate risks.
Bitpay will convert BTC into any of 30 other currencies and deposit those funds into a bank account of the merchants choosing. Bitpay will just send the BTC unless the merchant tells them otherwise. https://bitpay.com/faq
If BFL did convert the BTC into USD to pay rent, wages, and buy components, then why did they lie about doing so?
And they also said over and over again that the miners would be shipping too, just two more weeks guys cmon!
BFL took a currency risk and apparently did not hedge it. Or they hedged it (by keeping the BTC paid instead of converting to USD) but are now unwilling to part with the profit made by holding that hedge.
The truth is that you won't know in what form and at what ratio (if they received a split) they received money for their products that were very clearly priced in USD.
Most people assume that they received some USD, at least.
How else would BFL pay for their components, rent, wages. and other expenses? It's nice to think you can use BTC for some things, but in reality it's not very many.
BFL has stated over and over that they have not touched customer funds for development and operations.
BFL has stated over and over that they put the funds in escrow and that anyone who wants a refund can have one.
If BFL was going to put into escrow what they collected from customers, why on earth would they instruct Bitpay to convert the BTC to anything else? That would create the mother of all exchange rate risks.
Bitpay will convert BTC into any of 30 other currencies and deposit those funds into a bank account of the merchants choosing. Bitpay will just send the BTC unless the merchant tells them otherwise. https://bitpay.com/faq
If BFL did convert the BTC into USD to pay rent, wages, and buy components, then why did they lie about doing so?
Please, present your evidence then Maged. You are full of shit, plain and simple. There's proof positive via screen shot, tons of circumstantial evidence and if SMF is worth a shit, there should be easily verifiable tracking information via soft delete and IP logs to finish it all off. What "evidence" do you have that I faked any of it?
But lets examine the whole premise... why would I even BOTHER to fake that, in that particular manner? That doesn't even make sense... if I'm going to fake something, it would be something far more damning than THAT post. In fact, I'll even let you, Maged, remote into my machine and examine the browser window to verify it for yourself.
But lets examine the whole premise... why would I even BOTHER to fake that, in that particular manner? That doesn't even make sense... if I'm going to fake something, it would be something far more damning than THAT post. In fact, I'll even let you, Maged, remote into my machine and examine the browser window to verify it for yourself.
You sir have some of the biggest balls and least amount of brain cells of anyone I have ever come across. You still ONE YEAR later have failed to deliver your products costing your customers MILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue and you have the audacity to come onto this forum and act like a childish, immature, teenage girl. You want to make accusations, call people names, act arrogant, egotistical, when you should be tucking your tail between your legs and kissing everyone's ass. WE the people of this forum and the rest of BFL customers have paid your salary for the last year. We have funded your business. We have paid for your development, your research, and we have eaten shit, listened to your lies week after week and have paid for your failures for the last year.
You are the giant piece of shit. You are the manipulator. You are the conman. You are everything you accuse others to be.
Remember when you point your finger at someone their are three looking back at you.
I reported that auction a couple days ago.. I'm sure others did as well.. 
Thanks! You did me a big favor. You really did.
Anytime! Feel free to tip!
I reported that auction a couple days ago.. I'm sure others did as well..
Thanks! You did me a big favor. You really did.
I reported that auction a couple days ago.. I'm sure others did as well..
BFL took a currency risk and apparently did not hedge it. Or they hedged it (by keeping the BTC paid instead of converting to USD) but are now unwilling to part with the profit made by holding that hedge.
The truth is that you won't know in what form and at what ratio (if they received a split) they received money for their products that were very clearly priced in USD.
Most people assume that they received some USD, at least.
How else would BFL pay for their components, rent, wages. and other expenses? It's nice to think you can use BTC for some things, but in reality it's not very many.
I think it should be Very Well Noted, that the First BFL Single, Is being put up for sale Immediatley.
Showing what I believe to be Doubt in the product, my bet is that the seller is worried about the lifetime of the product
I have yet to see a running BFL asic that doesnt put out HW errors
Showing what I believe to be Doubt in the product, my bet is that the seller is worried about the lifetime of the product
I have yet to see a running BFL asic that doesnt put out HW errors
Here, let me help cure the speculation.
The hardware is really nice. BFL took a long time to ensure we get a good high quality product.
I do admit though that I would have happily taken any POS months ago that worked vs. a solid product today.
I do understand that wasn't an option for them and is part of the reason I'm glad they are selling their chips.
My rationale behind selling: Getting my long awaited miner didn't help with the frustration and anxiety dealing with
the over promising and under delivering from BFL as a customer.
I would rather see the reminder of that pain gone at the moment. Also, I will be over my power budget of a 1000 Watts
after the others come so a few will have to go eventually. It's currently summer where I live with 110+F weather and increased electricity for
the summer rates. Don't forget the house cooling costs. And most importantly, I believe it will sell for more
than its potential ROI at this point because there are those that gotta have the hardware at any cost RIGHT NOW.
I don't want to deny them the opportunity. Oh yeah, and I'm curious what is the market rate for one of these ATM.
Aren't you?
Sorry for rubbing anyone the wrong way. All the negative feelings of being a BFL customer kind of culminated at the birth of this
thread and the ebay listing. Just couldn't keep my cool I guess. As I've said before. Can't wait 'till all the ASIC drama is over with.
It will be the day anyone can order top of the line mining hardware at marginal cost and have it delivered within days IMO.
-Allten
Well let's flip the possibilities.. and then add in a dash of reasoning..
If someone paid ~2.5 BTC to buy a Jalapeno right now.. and then 3 months from now BTC plunges to 5$ a BTC again.. Would that customer.. or YOU.. be DEMANDING that you get your 2.5BTC back? You think if BFL forced the 2.5BTC on you when that only added up to ~$12.50, that that would be ok?
If they are selling it for BTC, and I paid for it in BTC, and then I asked for a refund and I got the refund in BTC, what possible cause could I have to complain?If someone paid ~2.5 BTC to buy a Jalapeno right now.. and then 3 months from now BTC plunges to 5$ a BTC again.. Would that customer.. or YOU.. be DEMANDING that you get your 2.5BTC back? You think if BFL forced the 2.5BTC on you when that only added up to ~$12.50, that that would be ok?
BTC is supposed to be a currency. What the company does with that currency after I give it to them is their problem. If they offer to accept it, until they deliver they have a forex risk that they should probably hedge.
Let's look at the truths though. When they charged people in BTC.. they were NOT charging people for direct BTC. The site had USD prices listed as the main price.. bolded. Below that they had an amount that added up to however many bitcoins that amount in USD costs. The sale was in USD.
So everyone should print a bold price in Zimbabwean dollars and just refund people with those, no matter which currency they paid in originally? If you wanted to pay in Canadian dollars, or pesos, and if they allowed it, they would have sent you the bill in USD along with an amount in pesos.. or Canadian dollars that equaled the USD price.
When I buy alpaca from Peru on Amazon for USD, I pay USD. The company probably converts that money to Nuevos Sol, but if they refund my money, they will send me USD (no matter what the current exchange rate is, they were holding my dollars, when I want them back, I want the same number of dollars back). If the payments never had USD listed, or the website was not advertising in USD, I could see the confusion, and the complaint but they were. Plain and simple. What you chose to take out of that other than, "This US based company, who buys things with US dollars, who was invested in with US dollars, is selling a product for US dollars" is your own fault.
They accepted BTC, they should refund in BTC, not Zimbabwean dollars or US dollars, or Hong Kong dollars, or any other currency that just happens to have a really favorable exchange rate. If they did not properly hedge their exchange rate risk, that is their problem, not their customers.What about all the online retailers taking bitcoin as payment. Do you mean to tell me if they offer returns (say 30 day for electronics) that I can get my product, but have 30 day insurance that if bitcoin goes WAY up in price I can force a return, and get bitcoins that are worth twice the amount?
Yes. If you hold the BTC, you can refund the BTC. If they get the product back, they get the BTC back. Do you think Sony refunds you less USD when the Yen falls because they price their TV somewhere on a website in Yen?...can no one see the logic in this? Can no one see the MAJOR scams that would come out of this being a common practice? If the price of bitcoins tanked like my example at the top of this post, and butterfly labs was offering refunds back in BTC worth 1/20th the cost they originally were worth, EVERYONE would be calling that a scam, and so would I.
If a european customer paid US$100 and then USD tanked and they asked for a refund and the company refunded their US$100, why would they complain? 100 USD in 100 USD out.As far as Bitpay, that is BFL subcontracting out the actual exchange. It is just like using Paypal, or Mastercard, or Visa.
If I sent Paypal US$1000 to buy a TV direct from Sony. Then Paypal sends 80000 Yen to Sony (because they want to let Paypal handle the currency exchange) for my TV. When I ask Paypal for a refund 44 days later, will I get Yen or Dollars back? Will I get the same number of dollars I sent back? Or will it depend on the current exchange rate?
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