Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 2. (Read 22437 times)

    Please spend some time in this part of the world if you can. Politics do not necessarily reflect the people.

The BBC documentary The Rise of the Politics of Fear, does a good job of highlighting how the west created Radical Islam for a political tool of polarized good and bad.

As for the debate on religion and interest - it is only morality wrong when considered usury. When you look at it through the lens of macro economics and the effective use of capital it is the cost of money and provided the risks and costs are fair and mutually agreed it is a necessary in creating prosperity.

I won't defend the banking system of today but under a fixed monetary system like gold, having a market (thus interest) for money is the tool that created greater prosperity in the west.

       The first will be last, and the last will be first. First came Judaism, then came Christianity, then came Islam. Jealousy is forbidden in Islam except in two cases- in the case of jealousy of one who spends the wealth they have been given righteously, and one who has received knowledge and uses it and teaches it. I interpret this as meaning that competition in good works is a good thing, as long as we don't harbor ill will towards anyone.

        The dress code in Islam is first and foremost for protection. Islam teaches that it's forbidden to try to force people to believe in anything (2:256). Some have tried to force rules on people, but these are rare exceptions which get a HUGE amount of news coverage in Christian majority countries. I think the reasoning goes something like this: If you put on makeup to go out, you are making yourself beautiful for people other than your husband. If you are more beautiful for people other than your husband, you are more likely to get positive attention from them. If your appearance causes the thought to cross people mind of entering into adultery with you, even if it doesn't lead to anything, there can still be a subtle interaction that implants the idea in your mind. With this thought in mind perhaps you could go home to your husband, and with thoughts of amorous adventures in your mind, maybe you might think how boring, and be less grateful, and end up getting in an argument that upsets your kids, who go outside sad and angry and throw a rock at a dog, who gets upset and later bites a kid, who then is scared of dogs and kicks dogs later in life, and those dogs bite more people... ahh, you see where I'm going. The rules of modesty are meant to improve quality of life in this world and the hereafter. It's fun getting attention and flirting but it leaves you wanting more, and eventually there is a crash as you get older, which is why I think so many women end up spending so much money on anti-aging products or plastic surgery as they get older- attention withdrawal.
     In Islamic countries women get respect and even reverence from the community the older they get.

  Belief affects and shapes society and reality. Belief is caused by the direct influence of a higher power that is internal to all of us.

Sounds like interest has a very real effect on the physical world, and like some people actually have theories about how it affects us, and are trying to affect the physical world's society by changing those rates to be close to zero. It seems we can also see the results of that near zero interest rate test, which is "rampant unsustainable borrowing leading to collapse." So this doesn't seem like it applies in the same way that spiritual and metaphysical things that we can't test or perceive with our senses and instruments does. Or are you suggesting that things like prayer and belief affect our real physical society in the same way that interest rates do? And if yes, what is causing that effect - shared belief and habits, or a higher power having direct influence?

It's because progressives don't like discrimination of any kind, and are defending Muslims that live in their civilized countries from those who would lump them in with the savages in the middle east. It's also because Christians are a majority, and Muslims are easy targets to discriminate against, so progressives see the injustice and try to stop it. Had Muslims been the majority, or Jews, and had Christians been the ones being persecuted and discriminated against, I'm sure progressives would have been defending Christians. I doubt most progressives even know what Islam is about, so I doubt they're just supporting a religion.


Yeah, so what the hell happened? No one questions or denies that ancient Muslim nations had a great and awesome history with many contributions to the world. So how did it turn from that into such a horrific and appalling joke?

I think there are many Muslims with great hearts.  I think many have a heart of love and really do love God and are doing their best to serve the one true God for sure.  It is up to God to see their heart and decide.

Don't you think it is really troubling that Islamic tradition states that people are "marked" from birth though?  I suppose people are allowed to convert?  As for the tiers in heaven, that is where the issue is I guess.  I suppose Christians do believe in "heavenly rewards" but there is also a verse that says, "The last will be first and the first will be last."  It is not about keeping score or who is "better." 

As for the cultural issues with women, and how they dress, I will not argue with you on that.  It is more culture than religion though.  Growing up my parents were very strict in this.  They were from what was called a "holiness movement" in which women were to dress very modest and not even wear makeup.  However, I feel a women needs to be "in the world but not of the world."  And the Bible even teaches that a wise man avoids all extremes, but I try to be fairly modest myself, but I will wear makeup.  

It's House of Submission, or House of War. Also the only way a muslim is guaranteed paradise is either to die a martyr spilling the blood of the enemy (thus martyr means murderer), to be one of the 70 or so folks that a martyr might be allowed intercede for, or to give in support of jihad, which is said to be of equal reward. Is it any wonder that Europeans are now being randomly butchered alive on their own streets? For one thing, as much as we might owe multiculturalism to Islam, we must also recognize how many of them see it, as an opportunity to take advantage of the filthy kafir, weaken them, and overcome them.

Of course, to most muslims, these are extremist cases, those crazy ones that actually consider doing what the quran and the mullahs suggest,

   I remember stumbling across the names of Salman the Perisan, Ali ibn Abu Talib, and Uthman ibn Affan as being among those who transcribed the recitations of the Quran, and none of them were Christian slaves, as far as I know. I just haven't read enough to know any of the other transcribers, perhaps you care to provide a source?

   Islam is sometimes translated as "the peace that comes from total submission to the Supreme." but it comes from the same root as Saad Lam Mim or SLM, the Hebrew and Arabic root for "peace." If you have faith that all things are under the power of the Greatest, the One, then you have nothing to fear except for that One. If harm is meant for you by the One, no one and nothing can prevent it, and if you are protected by the One, then nothing and no one can harm you. That is part of the meaning of Islam as I understand it. If you are a believer then even the harm does you good, because by showing patience you earn favor and are purified by the hardship. Anyone who falls upon this stone will be broken to pieces- anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.

    Salvation is not earned in Islam. Salvation is given by the Most Kind and the Most Merciful, Ar-rahman-i-rahim, feminine nouns in Arabic that stem from the same word root as womb in Arabic and Hebrew. How woman friendly is a male God and His son, and a gender neutral spirit?

Abusive for me is cultural norms that force women to wear clothing that reveals their curves, causing men to oggle them in public. Abusive for me is that in some places women are expected to go to the salon at least once a month and pay what a lot of people in the world make in a month to get their hair done. Then they are tricked by the advertising industry into buying makeup, jewelry, padded bras, and other such nonsense to attract attention. Let's not even get started on the position of women in the Bible- at least in Islam there is no original sin. Education has also been obligatory for women in the Islamic nation for over a thousand years.

 The Quran states that Christians, Jews, and others who believe and do good works will have nothing to fear on judgment day (2:62).
Christians often interpret only those who accept Jesus, peace be with him, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Muslims accept Jesus as a Prophet and love and revere him, peace be with him.  

  The Muslims began by simply worshiping and were consistently attacked by polytheists. The first contact between the new Islamic state and Christian Roman empire was peaceful envoys sent by the Muslims who were then received by the Christians and immediately beheaded. Muslims accept the Bible as divine revelation with some adulteration- of which there is ample evidence given widespread destruction of texts, disputed versions of the Bible, translations with corrections and additions, and so on (see Nag Hammadi Library).

According to Islamic tradition, every person is marked from birth as a belonging to the party of the fire or the party of paradise. Salvation is not earned. Status is earned- there are degrees in paradise. Propaganda campaigns have been being run against Islam by Christians for a long time. This is understandable, since Islam does not have the same power structure as Christianity, which emphasizes the role of male priests. A lot of people have a lot to lose if their followers question the pope as being infallible- and a lot of people have a lot to lose if people start to question the infallibility of the Bible.

    Please be careful with your information on religions. There are a lot of interests at work here. There are good priests and bad priests, good imams and bad imams. You will know a tree by its fruit. The red pill is a hard one to swallow.

      
    

this is stupid, neither group should be homogenized in this way. only individuals can owe debts and children can not be held liable for the actions of their forefathers.

It's an odd quote, considering how early tribal muslims had no written language, it was Christian slaves (Dhimmis) that were tasked with compiling and writing down the quranic recitations, and had to invent the script known as Arabic in order to do so. Muslims, like some Roman Catholic sects, were reknown for burning whole libraries of books and art. They both owe the world a great debt, as I see it.

   For example- most religions, including Christianity, forbid the taking of interest on loans. While this might seem dogmatic, our current crisis would probably not be happening if the institution of interest were not so widespread. Right now interest rates are close to zero causing the economy to pick up again, which is bad news for people with huge piles of money who could normally just live off the interest. Again, people with experience of the unseen wrote this down at a time when literacy was very rare because they knew it was important for future generations to remember.

   How an institution like interest affects our physical reality is very difficult to test, because it is a social phenomenon. Your results are going to be affected by what you believe. If you are collecting 9% interest on 10 million bucks, or 90 grand a year, and living on it, the research you do about interest is probably going to ask different questions than the research that someone who needs to get a payday loan from the money tree to turn their water back on would do. Physical models of the universe correspond to philosophical and ethical ideals, so science is far from apolitical, and scientific inquiry, just like religious texts, get bent to serve the agendas of those using them.

   So if interest concentrates wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people, and this rising inequality in wealth leads to jealousy which leads to increasing social tension and violence, which eventually leads to war and me losing family members and getting my hand blown off, well, my disobeying of a religious rule caused me some harm... in other words, disbelief caused me harm, because if I'd believed and not charged or given interest, it might have influenced the people around me, the whole society could have taken a different direction, and I could've still had my hand and family members.

  It's an exaggerated scenario- one person taking interest could not be so significant- but consider the butterfly effect, and consider that very small actions add up to a big cumulative effect. Trying to measure this kind of stuff is a statistical nightmare- you would need generations of observational data. Luckily, there are people who have studied this for generations, and the brightest minds among them have been preserved in writing- these are the texts of the major religions. Lots of religions have risen and fallen- the ones that work have survived- evolution.

What I cannot understand is why women, who are obviously forced into a submissive and often abusive role in Islam, do not leave, especially when they understand more or have the freedom to do so?  I guess there is the social stigmas and familial pressures that keep them there, but it is not a very "woman friendly" religion for sure.

When reading the Koran it is pretty obvious that it is not a tolerant religion but one that has violent roots and certainly a strong belief that all "infadels" which is everyone besides those that believe like they do, should be put to death.  It is not a "gospel" of love, grace, redemption or peace but instead a false gospel of hatred, violence and control.  There is certainly a belief in "good works" earning a person their way to heaven in the Koran.  However, their idea of "good works" could include killing people for their cause. (I was once told that the sign of a false religion is one in which salvation needs to be earned.  Interesting thought for sure.  Only Christianity teaches that salvation is not able to be earned by anything we do and is a gift freely given by God and can only be obtained by repentance and acceptance)

Of course, that is not to say that there are some very loving and kind people that are Muslim.  It is just that there are certainly some things within Islam that are dangerous if people take them to the extreme.

I thought Bitcoin fits very well the age of aquarius? 

(it's usually described as very individualistic, as opposed to the passing more authoritarian age of pisces).

Islam is socially perpetuated by paternity and mortal fear. It won't be the last cult system established in that pattern. It has only passing resemblances to Judaism, but is wicked to the core. Islam means submission, and the majority will follow their leaders. They commonly await the 5th Imam, expecting him to lead them to global dominance (the root meaning of mujahed, root word of jihad)

Again, looking at the modern world, have you ever wondered why the most affluential progressives seem to have a common affinity for Islam, only paying lip service to its enemies?

Hmm, which would you call more incoherent? We don't know, but based on the things we know, and this evidence, MAYBE that's what doing it? Or a fantastical tale of talking snakes, hydrogen and oxygen atoms of water turning into carbon atoms to make wine, virgin pregnancies, and all powerful beings sitting in a relative up direction from us in the sky, causing that thing to happen for reasons we can't understand?


Blatant disregard for history aside, just look at the modern world. Of the many cultures that exist in our world today, which cultures are calling for the murder of hundreds of millions in the hopes of ushering in a new era? (Hint: it's the very religious one whose culture is about where Christianity was 600 years ago)

Again, how? If this stuff doesn't affect our senses or our physical reality, then how can it harm us? Unless it can harm our senses or emotions, in which case this should be testable.


Science isn't a system of belief, it's a system of doing verifications on ideas, and discarding those ideas we can't verify. As for the light being a particle and a wave, that's just another variation of "How can bumble bees fly?" Sure, those not familiar with this aspect of light might think this is a tough question that can't be answered, but it can and has been.


I would answer simply that consciousness begins where something is able to sense and is aware of its surroundings. We know algae is aware of it's surroundings, at least to a very limited point, since it shows us that it prefers to grow in some areas over others. Rocks and stars show absolutely no signs of consciousness. If you mean self-conscious, that's a tougher  line to distinguish, but one that's within the spectrum of consciousness, not within the spectrum of obvious consciousness and unconsciousness of dead inanimate things.


I've never heard of the spirit molecule, but I am pretty sure that if you had been born without any senses, including sense of touch and pain, that you would have no consciousness at all. There would simply be no experience to guide the development of your brain. No learned behaviors, thoughts, ideas, of senses to react to from instinct. So I'd say your present consciousness is just a collection of your memories and experiences, all of which, despite feeling rather grandiose, can be mapped out, and even tampered with, from the physical network of neurons in your brain. We know that people who suffer brain damage often change personalities and become different people, which suggests that it's the physical brain that determines everything about who you are. So what do you believe "consciousness" to be, if it's outside of your thoughts, dreams, personality, etc?



Since we can easily generate radiation and magnetic pulses, this should be easy enough to test...


Can these variables be measured with a high enough statistical probability? I.e., even if we can't measure them directly, can we through pulses at a group of brains and test for any most frequent outcomes? If yes, we can prove this scientifically. If all the outcomes are random, then why are these mechanisms relevant, if they'll cause random, seemingly unrelated outcomes?


You mean tested, peer reviewed, and able to be duplicated by others with similar results???


Science doesn't have to comprehend. It just has to test. If there are tests on this stuff, and the outcomes are statistically significant, then they can be believed to be true, and afterwards science will start working on explaining the process and why they are true. If tests show seemingly random and unrelated outcomes from this wisdom, then, again, the random outcomes would make it irrelevant.


It really depends on your definition of wisdom though. I wouldn't call the centuries of wisdom surrounding our medicine, which believed that things like infections and illnesses were caused by demons, or bad blood, or bad airs, to be wisdom worthy of keeping in light of new discoveries about viruses and bacteria. And as we discover more things about our physical universe, that "wisdom" keeps getting pushed back and back towards things that are unprovable, which people believe despite any way of perceiving or testing the evidence for it. It's the "god of the gaps" concept, with the gaps being smaller and smaller. So, sure, no one has disproved the existence of the Almighty, but neither has anyone disproved the existence of dragons and unicorns. And don't dragons and unicorns have just about as much effect and influence on our lives, perceptions, and instruments as the Almighty? So shouldn't we consider them wisdom to believe in just as hard as belief in the Almighty?

So, I should only flatter people and tell all my secrets?

Sigmund's theories on God are no more enlightened than Mao's. The secular cannot find God, and in their ignorance invent rationalizations for every evidence they encounter, no matter how incoherent, justifying even the murder of hundreds of millions in the hopes of ushering in a progressive new era of likeminded humanism without any trace of God. For some reason, it's never failed to backfire. You can thank Sigmund, or you can thank God.

EDIT: The epitome of this dynamic is narrated in Revelations, wherein the ultimate purge occurs, followed by the ultimate blowback, and it's not going to be mistaken for anything Freudian.

Please note the parallel in the prophecy, which was recorded in metaphor, paraphrased here for your understanding: Those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life WILL worship the beast, a seemingly unstoppable global force/entity. The world powers ( whore of babylon, globalist aquarians by any other name) that "ride" and empower this beast will be "drunk with the blood of the saints." The beast and all who worship it (or receive its mark on their hand or forehead) will be destroyed (tormented even), see Revelations for details. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.