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Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 4. (Read 22413 times)

legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
June 24, 2013, 05:01:55 PM
I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I remember those times, too. I would get angry with him about something in my life, but I would feel comforted, as if he understood me, and that he would stay by my side. Whatever hardships I personally had with god, despite making me a bit angry or frustrated with him at times, never made me question him. The point at which it started to unravel was when I expanded my world from just "me me me" and started being angry at god for others. I couldn't simply be angry at god, have my words with him, have him comfort me, and have that be over with. I would be angry with god about something outside of me, things I saw being done to others I loved or cared about, then I would have words with god, and after seeing nothing be done or changed, things would stay unresolved, and I would be left with nothing but more questions.

Then why could you not just pray for others and realize that they are on their own journey as well?  Pray that God could help them make sense of the horrible things they had to endure?  Yes, I know a bit about your story.  Perhaps you have had to go through more than most do for sure, and your heart is so big and filled with so much compassion that it makes it even more difficult to stand by and see others suffer.  But have you considered that perhaps that "big heart" of yours was put there by God?  He is the one that puts love in our hearts.  He has an amazing way of turning the crap we have to go through into something amazing if we just let Him, or ask Him too.

And I think it is OK to question.  We should question.  I still question Him.  The difference is that I have come to realize that in my finite mind I will not be able to understand everything and I have learned to trust God regardless of that.  There are going to be things in this life that make absolutely no sense at all, and perhaps God is waiting until after life to make some of those things right?  I do believe that He has put fairness into our hearts and our sense of "justice" comes from Him.  So whatever does not seem right or fair or just, just let Him know.  He wants us to be direct and honest.  He certainly can handle it. Wink 

I guess what I often see if that people get so ticked off at God that they want to blame Him for not doing anything about the problems in the world.  I often feel like He does choose to stand by on the sidelines and just watch.  But then I have found the reason He is not involved in our lives is because we have not asked Him to be, or we don't want him to be involved.  Our own pride makes us want to do everything on our own without Him.  And He completely respects that and lets us have our own way, regardless of how much more difficult it is on us, and even on Him.  I think it does hurt Him when He sees us suffer so much.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 24, 2013, 04:42:39 PM
I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I remember those times, too. I would get angry with him about something in my life, but I would feel comforted, as if he understood me, and that he would stay by my side. Whatever hardships I personally had with god, despite making me a bit angry or frustrated with him at times, never made me question him. The point at which it started to unravel was when I expanded my world from just "me me me" and started being angry at god for others. I couldn't simply be angry at god, have my words with him, have him comfort me, and have that be over with. I would be angry with god about something outside of me, things I saw being done to others I loved or cared about, then I would have words with god, and after seeing nothing be done or changed, things would stay unresolved, and I would be left with nothing but more questions.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 24, 2013, 04:35:54 PM
I may have said it several times now. If you were in my shoes, you'd be a fool to write off your experiences as fantasy. It'd be like describing the Eiffel Tower as "a bit of metal" or like trying to do a doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics in the style of dr. suess, with a 100 word vocabulary. There's no mistaking the real thing.

And I have said it several times, too. I did not "write off" the experience. It was an integral part of my life, and I've felt the same way you do. So the whole process was quite a gut-wrenching struggle, one I fought very hard against, clinging to my religion as hard as I could, and trying to continue to convince myself of why god and my faith were real. But, at some point, I just got to where I couldn't reconcile what I believed with what I knew. And now I realize that it was all in my head, and I feel so much more free and happy because of it.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
June 24, 2013, 04:13:42 PM
If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them?

As a matter of fact, yes, I can. I grew up non-religious (was just never taught anything about it, coming from USSR, which is why I believe babies are both atheist), then I was taught about religion, and was a catholic for many years growing up. I believed wholeheartedly, and got all those friend benefits and happy feelings from my personal relationship with god, thinking god was looking over me and such. So I know the feeling you describe. I just got over it, and now look back at it in much the same way you probably remember the glee and excitement you've felt as a child, when you were expecting Santa to come with gifts.

And thing is, many, if not almost all, atheists from USA were religious at one point, too, feeling the same way you do. We all live in a very religious country, and it's almost impossible to grow up without someone trying to convince you of christianity (at least it was a few decades ago). So it's not that atheists "don't get it" because they "don't understand the feeling and relationship you get from god." They do, because they've had it too. So it's not that atheists think you guys are crazy. They just think you are still diluded and confused. Which is perfectly fine, as long as you keep your fantasies to yourselves. In part because we feel embarrassed for you, and in part because you guys try to convince those in power to turn your fantasies into laws.

It is interesting that many atheists do come from a religious background, one in which they do say that had a relationship with God.  It seems that somewhere along the way something causes them to "lose their faith" so to speak.  Perhaps God did not come through in a way they expected?

Our relationship with God/Jesus is a journey though.  One that takes some twists and turns and our response to the difficulties and trials we endure is what either sharpens us or can put out the flame in our hearts if we let them.

I have had many times I have had a few angry words with God, to put it nicely.  The amazing thing is when I "have it out" with Him, that is when He comes to me and helps me the most.  I am often a spoiled kid wanting my way though and  He has taught me that He never promised me an easy life but he promised to walk with me through it.

I wrote a song about this "journey" if you are interested in reading the lyrics:

I dreamed as a child what my life would be
That all my hopes and dreams would come so easily
Thinking if God really cared at all
Then Santa would bring me my favorite doll

I've grown up a little but not totally
I still want things to go my way, unfortunately
Denying what salvation truly means
Embracing Your cross and Your suffering

You never said life would be easy
Never said I wouldn't cry
Never said I would not grow weary or the road was open wide
But you said You would never leave me
Then You wipe my tears dry
As Your Spirit brings me comfort
You're always by my side

I can picture the blood pouring down from Your face
To think of what You suffered for Your gift of grace
Living Your life in humility
Then choosing to die out of love for me
I can picture You now looking into my face
And asking me to accept Your gift of grace
To live my life in humility
Embracing the cross that you have for me

You never said life would be easy
Never said I wouldn't cry
Never said I would not grow weary or the road was open wide
But you said You would never leave me
Then You wipe my tears dry
As Your Spirit brings me comfort
You're always by my side
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
Getting too old for all this.
June 24, 2013, 03:36:43 PM
I may have said it several times now. If you were in my shoes, you'd be a fool to write off your experiences as fantasy. It'd be like describing the Eiffel Tower as "a bit of metal" or like trying to do a doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics in the style of dr. suess, with a 100 word vocabulary. There's no mistaking the real thing.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 24, 2013, 03:25:58 PM
If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them?

As a matter of fact, yes, I can. I grew up non-religious (was just never taught anything about it, coming from USSR, which is why I believe babies are both atheist), then I was taught about religion, and was a catholic for many years growing up. I believed wholeheartedly, and got all those friend benefits and happy feelings from my personal relationship with god, thinking god was looking over me and such. So I know the feeling you describe. I just got over it, and now look back at it in much the same way you probably remember the glee and excitement you've felt as a child, when you were expecting Santa to come with gifts.

And thing is, many, if not almost all, atheists from USA were religious at one point, too, feeling the same way you do. We all live in a very religious country, and it's almost impossible to grow up without someone trying to convince you of christianity (at least it was a few decades ago). So it's not that atheists "don't get it" because they "don't understand the feeling and relationship you get from god." They do, because they've had it too. So it's not that atheists think you guys are crazy. They just think you are still diluded and confused. Which is perfectly fine, as long as you keep your fantasies to yourselves. In part because we feel embarrassed for you, and in part because you guys try to convince those in power to turn your fantasies into laws.
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
Getting too old for all this.
June 24, 2013, 03:10:55 PM
Quote
I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

If I were in your shoes I'd probably agree with you. However, it turned out that my friend was not only not imaginary, but also faithful with matters well beyond my influence.

Suppose that you had a personal relationship with someone for years, and you learned that you could count on them to keep their promises. Can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds when someone tries to calmly explain to you that you're imagining them? It's rather insulting, actually, what kind of weak-minded fools atheists take us for, but we can't hold a grudge.

Atheists assume that someone is crazy if they honestly think God talks to them. How do they expect to hear from him? He has many ways to communicate, and honestly I've rarely heard a foreign voice in my head. He can speak in answered prayers, in prophecy, in extremely unlikely providences, in His Word, in Spirit, even in visions (which I would NOT assume were from him if they were not sealed and confirmed with prophetic events, which they have been).
In times passed, I've tried on enough world-views that I lost count. I started with the scientific principles of testing and evaluation, curiosity and open-mindedness. I found much more than the secular can possibly explain. I also found that deception is exceedingly common, and truth is rare, fragments of it being abused for the sake of control.

In the end, I wish I'd known that faith in the living Christ is key, leading to an experiential understanding that satisfies the rigorous demands that our mind places on the evaluation of what is real. I serve Christ alone. Nothing else satisfies, it's the blind leading the blind. Forgive me if I seem close-minded.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2013, 02:22:22 PM
    I'd agree... the word god is probably one of the most abused. It originally comes from the proto-Germanic and may have been derived from the name Wodan or Godan, who was one God in the German pantheon. Any time someone wants me to believe something I ask why... for example, when I am telling people about bitcoin I am doing so because if the bitcoin economy grows then the value of bitcoin increases and my bitcoins will buy more.
   I agree, ideologies that deny other ideas are very limiting. I also prefer more inclusive systems.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
June 24, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.

LOL
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 24, 2013, 01:45:09 PM
I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

I have found the opposite, that faith in god limits one to what they are willing to believe, think, and thus experience. I guess it all ready depends on the type of faith. I mean, being a fundamentalist muslim I'm sure severely limits your life, while being generally open about everything AND sharing it with an imaginary friend can feel really nice, I'm sure.
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
Getting too old for all this.
June 24, 2013, 01:13:24 PM
I have found that a lack of faith in God's character does more to deny one a richer more meaningful life than anything else.

Also, not to play grammar nazi, but for future reference,the correct third-person posessive is "their", not "there." Would hate to see something that unimportant unfairly tarnish your reputation for above average deductive reasoning Wink
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
June 24, 2013, 12:05:21 PM
Do you believe that time dialation when approaching the speed of light or a black hole, or that stars in other solar systems being made of gas, or even that Neptune is made of gas, is accepted on faith, because we have never had proof of these claims?

My deductive reasoning skills by my own judgment are above average, (not according to my Wife), but given the basic science evidence on which these assumptions are made, for simplicity, I am willing to accept them as fact, if my life depended on it, I would like to get a little more firsthand experience and learn a little more.  

That said I think it is fare to let the naysayer have his own deluded opinion, as long as there ignorance doesn't affect others, and there beliefs are not considered facts but merely metaphors by which to simplify the understandings.  

As for time dilation, it is amassing, our perception of the universe is dependent on time, and that time that is afforded us to preserve it is a result of the our gravity, and that I experience first had, the problem with religious beliefs is they can be fixed and do not reflect the understanding, or if they do they evolve very slowly so the lowest common denominator can still find a belief. The problem is simplifying the wonderment and belittling it to a simple 3 letter word as opposed to, understanding it and basking in its awe, denies people of a richer life.  
full member
Activity: 220
Merit: 100
Getting too old for all this.
June 24, 2013, 11:50:06 AM
TIme dilation is adjusted for in satellites, it's a quantifiable phenomenon. So is God's faithfulness, and it can be verified prior to death, if you have the faith to depend on it. Few do, the rest reduce God to an acedemic discussion about the afterlife.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 24, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
Like Bitcoin, the economic principles it enables have never been allowed to provide themselves, so they are accepted on faith.
And there success is testimony to the belief.

And so to is faith in a personal God. you can't prove it , the only way to do it is to have someone kill you or die of natural causes not of your making.

The result is you have to assess the risk. We have different an individual risk tolerance and levels of reasoning.
Trying to prove you're ability to assess risk is better than someone else's when it is a function of person tolerance is pointless.

Do you believe that time dialation when approaching the speed of light or a black hole, or that stars in other solar systems being made of gas, or even that Neptune is made of gas, is accepted on faith, because we have never had proof of these claims?
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 24, 2013, 06:39:42 AM
Is god in the seventh dimension?

  I stopped watching when he said "This is my video blog post for November fourteenth, two thousand seven." The man clearly has no grasp of the fourth dimension, how can he know about the tenth?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Capitalism is the crisis.
June 24, 2013, 02:07:51 AM
Try imagining everything that is, ever was, or will be as one giant unending chain of atoms. Imagine your birth, childhood, adolescence, and eventual death as one unbroken chain of matter that connects with everything before and after it. Every molecule of water, land, and life in one unbroken chain circulating our solar system as one giant linked whole with no growth or movement. Now scale this up to a galactic or universal level. Now you have a sliver of an image of what timelessness is. If you want to learn more check out some books on time as the 4th dimension.

Circulating, without movement? I can imagine everything up to that point. I'm sell aware of the concept of the 4th dimension and beyond. But just as a 1st dimension line has to expand from a single point, and the 2nd dimension, and the third, the 4th expanded from a single point as well. And what does this vast interconnected chain, existing in the 4th dimension, have to do with pre-time?

Getting really philosophical here, but how did time evolve?  I am of the mindset (as I am sure you already know from past discussions on this thread) that God created time when he put the sun, moon and planets in their perfect places relative to each other at the moment the universe was created by Him.  What is the explanation of how that just happened by chance?  

As we know it, time is a function of matter/energy and velocity. The faster you go, or the more matter you condense into a spot, the slower the time moves. At a certain point, be it speed of light or extreme gravitational cingularity, time just stops moving completely, so nothing happens, at all. We use this understanding of relationship between time, matter, and velocity in our daily lives now.
We believe the same rules applied during the birth of our universe. Everything in our universe is expanding in a way that suggests that it all came from a single point. With the amount of gravity that would have existed when so much of the universe was together, time would have moved very slow. If you had a time machine, and tried to travel into the past to the beginning of the universe, you would never get there, because the farther back you go, the slower the time moves. It's like trying to travel down the line of a graph that approaches zero but never touches it, in a futile attempt to get to zero. At  a certain point, which was the very beginning of our universe, the time was almost stopped. At the point just before the creation of our universe, there was no such thing as "before." There was no time to measure before, during, and after, because nothing moved. There was no matter and velocity for time to exist in. So the idea that someone could "exist" in the "before," make decisions, and carry out actions, is a bit absurd, as all those things require a "before," a "during," and an "after." The most god could do is create the universe in the same infinitesimal fraction of a second as when the universe itself was created.

What are the odds that everything could have happened so that the rotation of the earth, at the precise distance from the sun, could have just happened by some random evolutionary chance?

Imagine you have a six-sided dice. No, rather, imagine you have a 1 trillion sided dice. And you need to roll exactly 5 for Earth to have the precise rotation and distance. What are the chances you will get that on a first roll? Now imagine you had hundreds of trillions of rolls, as there are hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in the universe. What are your chances of hitting a 5 at least once, now? What was god doing, creating hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in our universe, most of which don't come close to being like our Earth? (Though some apparently are similar)

http://youtu.be/oKKw_QilTcQ

Is god in the seventh dimension?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
June 24, 2013, 02:07:22 AM
one time I had to explain the book of Revelations to some chinese americans that did not grow up on christianity.

It was pretty funny. Basically another self proclaimed prophet was predicting the date of the rapture, and these chinese american women did not know why it was so relevant in the news.

"see what happens is that people are going to disappear, with their clothes folded.... oh never mind"
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Capitalism is the crisis.
June 24, 2013, 02:02:42 AM
LOL. Wrong word obviously. Note edit. And come on, you know that just blew somebody's mind.

Your face ain't even bovvered. Nothing bovvers you. That's not a sustainable condition. God loves you too much. He'll be there when you need him Smiley
Who loves/ will be? Eris?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 23, 2013, 11:27:11 PM
Try imagining everything that is, ever was, or will be as one giant unending chain of atoms. Imagine your birth, childhood, adolescence, and eventual death as one unbroken chain of matter that connects with everything before and after it. Every molecule of water, land, and life in one unbroken chain circulating our solar system as one giant linked whole with no growth or movement. Now scale this up to a galactic or universal level. Now you have a sliver of an image of what timelessness is. If you want to learn more check out some books on time as the 4th dimension.

Circulating, without movement? I can imagine everything up to that point. I'm sell aware of the concept of the 4th dimension and beyond. But just as a 1st dimension line has to expand from a single point, and the 2nd dimension, and the third, the 4th expanded from a single point as well. And what does this vast interconnected chain, existing in the 4th dimension, have to do with pre-time?

Getting really philosophical here, but how did time evolve?  I am of the mindset (as I am sure you already know from past discussions on this thread) that God created time when he put the sun, moon and planets in their perfect places relative to each other at the moment the universe was created by Him.  What is the explanation of how that just happened by chance?  

As we know it, time is a function of matter/energy and velocity. The faster you go, or the more matter you condense into a spot, the slower the time moves. At a certain point, be it speed of light or extreme gravitational cingularity, time just stops moving completely, so nothing happens, at all. We use this understanding of relationship between time, matter, and velocity in our daily lives now.
We believe the same rules applied during the birth of our universe. Everything in our universe is expanding in a way that suggests that it all came from a single point. With the amount of gravity that would have existed when so much of the universe was together, time would have moved very slow. If you had a time machine, and tried to travel into the past to the beginning of the universe, you would never get there, because the farther back you go, the slower the time moves. It's like trying to travel down the line of a graph that approaches zero but never touches it, in a futile attempt to get to zero. At  a certain point, which was the very beginning of our universe, the time was almost stopped. At the point just before the creation of our universe, there was no such thing as "before." There was no time to measure before, during, and after, because nothing moved. There was no matter and velocity for time to exist in. So the idea that someone could "exist" in the "before," make decisions, and carry out actions, is a bit absurd, as all those things require a "before," a "during," and an "after." The most god could do is create the universe in the same infinitesimal fraction of a second as when the universe itself was created.

What are the odds that everything could have happened so that the rotation of the earth, at the precise distance from the sun, could have just happened by some random evolutionary chance?

Imagine you have a six-sided dice. No, rather, imagine you have a 1 trillion sided dice. And you need to roll exactly 5 for Earth to have the precise rotation and distance. What are the chances you will get that on a first roll? Now imagine you had hundreds of trillions of rolls, as there are hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in the universe. What are your chances of hitting a 5 at least once, now? What was god doing, creating hundreds of trillions of stars and planets in our universe, most of which don't come close to being like our Earth? (Though some apparently are similar)
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
June 23, 2013, 10:59:32 PM
You have to then ask, why did he allow for the possibility of sin? What was the alternative?

As a means of showering grace on us. Since we have the choice, if we choose to live wisely and according to the Law, then we can advance in our consciousness and experience beauty and growth. The alternative would be no free will, which is the case with angels. In Buddhism these residents of heaven are sometimes called demi-gods I think, but because of their lack of free will they have much difficulty advancing levels in heaven, which is why we are very lucky to be human. Conversely, if we squander this opportunity it could be very unfortunate for us.
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